Scarves Is there a scarf slump?

[BigPurseSue]

I seem to recall a discussion--it may have been in the Cleaning the Closet thread--in which someone said she sent two scarves to TRR and they dry-cleaned them without her permission. Apparently they had soiled them. And then they returned them to her unsold with the hand-rolled edges ironed flat. Possibly I am mis-remembering some details such as where the discussion appeared, but it was all quite careless and rather shocking.

 

[kittyvoo]

Just a heads up on TRR. I will say that every time I check their stock I see fake H items listed. Not many, but this is just as I’m scrolling and it’s very obvious stuff.

https://fashionista.com/2019/09/the-realreal-authentication-process-exposed

I urge caution with TRR. I bought a *full price* scarf from them a few weeks ago - no 20% discount - for the sole reason that the scarf was described as being in excellent condition, with ‘no visible signs of wear’. Yes it was authentic, but it was very noticeably soiled, the care tag was removed, the rolled hem was missing stitches and it was extraordinarily badly creased. I would have been thrilled to bits if they had delivered the Hermes scarf they advertised.

 

[kittyvoo]

Let me ask another way: Are people still looking for vintage designs? Or does everyone already have most of their grails? I feel like people coming new to the brand are interested in the latest designs, not the oldies, so it's just a few of us who are still collecting older pieces.
I make soooo many impulse purchases, both old and new, and have generally been able to re-home those that haven't worked out for me. But lately I think my eBay sales have ground to a halt. Is there a slump in interest/sales of older designs?

I have given up buying resale items, especially on eBay. I am happy to pay a premium from a collector but in the last few years the number of worn and S-stamped scarves masquerading as ‘New With Tags’ seems to have gone through the roof. I would love to collect past-season designs but for me it’s no longer worth the hassle. This experience as a buyer then feeds into my not wanting to sell on eBay any more as I don’t want to be part of that vibe. So without a reliable re-sale avenue, I hardly ever consider picking up mid-market, used items - even items that might potentially be real bargains.

 

[dooneybaby]

I have given up buying resale items, especially on eBay. I am happy to pay a premium from a collector but in the last few years the number of worn and S-stamped scarves masquerading as ‘New With Tags’ seems to have gone through the roof. I would love to collect past-season designs but for me it’s no longer worth the hassle. This experience as a buyer then feeds into my not wanting to sell on eBay any more as I don’t want to be part of that vibe. So without a reliable re-sale avenue, I hardly ever consider picking up mid-market, used items - even items that might potentially be real bargains.

Wow, glad to know. I've only purchased 3 pre-loved H scarves from eBay, and that was about 5 years ago.

 

[momasaurus]

I seem to recall a discussion--it may have been in the Cleaning the Closet thread--in which someone said she sent two scarves to TRR and they dry-cleaned them without her permission. Apparently they had soiled them. And then they returned them to her unsold with the hand-rolled edges ironed flat. Possibly I am mis-remembering some details such as where the discussion appeared, but it was all quite careless and rather shocking.

Ugh. This is outrageous!

 

[momasaurus]

I urge caution with TRR. I bought a *full price* scarf from them a few weeks ago - no 20% discount - for the sole reason that the scarf was described as being in excellent condition, with ‘no visible signs of wear’. Yes it was authentic, but it was very noticeably soiled, the care tag was removed, the rolled hem was missing stitches and it was extraordinarily badly creased. I would have been thrilled to bits if they had delivered the Hermes scarf they advertised.

So frustrating! Are you going to return it? Or ask for a discount?

 

[momasaurus]

I have given up buying resale items, especially on eBay. I am happy to pay a premium from a collector but in the last few years the number of worn and S-stamped scarves masquerading as ‘New With Tags’ seems to have gone through the roof. I would love to collect past-season designs but for me it’s no longer worth the hassle. This experience as a buyer then feeds into my not wanting to sell on eBay any more as I don’t want to be part of that vibe. So without a reliable re-sale avenue, I hardly ever consider picking up mid-market, used items - even items that might potentially be real bargains.

This is sad to read. I picked up most of my vintage designs several years ago, and had good luck. Sometimes a seller even gave me back a little money if I complained about condition not being as advertised.

 

[marietouchet]

IMHO there are oldie grails & new grails

Oldie grails = the 1930s - 1960s rare ones, there will always be a market for those at a LARGE price, they were produced in small quantities, and have always been sought after. DIfferent market

New grails - scarves from the internet era, a design less than 15 years old. The new grails were done in large quantities - not HTF like the oldies - but the audience is similarly large. IMHO, must be a BIG FAT figural design - finesse / pen and ink are non starters.
Ex TOITS DE PARIS has been chatted up here recently, the design never was a big deal when issued, and some cws were widely panned at issue. But now it is hot.
I think online exposure eg here, authentication thread, a blog, IG is essential to the New Grail market. Chat drives the market. The last new grail that I have seen is SAMOURAIS and that was a bit ago. But, then the BIG FAT figural designs are infrequent these days eg Honore is gone

A postscript
My perception of the scarf market is very much driven by what is today's top price paid for the classic 90cm grails (TURANDOT, MYTHIQUES in dark green etc). There is of course a different market for the 1990s - 2000s favs and for other categories eg mens or mousses.
There is a recent trend to list at astronomical prices that the market will not bear eg $1200 for an undistinguished relatively-recent 90. Forget those asking prices, look at the sale prices..
The classic grails (MP & T) are in their own universe - there is a lot of emotion about paying $800. But I have not noticed any new classic grails coming out of the recent collections. The last one was SAMURAIS 2.5 years ago, I love KAWA ORA but it will never be a classic grail. The humorous designs (Bajtlik, Gattoni) are wonderful, go for solid prices but will never be classic grails - my opinion - no one has to agree...
So, I wonder if the top of market is being impacted by the fact that there has not been a classic-grail quality new design in 2.5 years ?
Also, the classic grail market has been impacted by authentication issues (cf orange Turandot thread , most of which has been deleted) and the speed at which fakes come out. Fakes come out instantly any more. There used to be a 6 mos lead time for a design to gain a following before it was faked.

 

[bunnycat]

I think there's an overall eBay slump. (I've been selling on eBay since ~2001) As an artist (who makes glass beads) eBay (and etsy) used to be a reasonable venue to reach jewelry designers who wanted hand made beads. Now things have moved towards social media (with all its inherent problems). I suspect something similar may have occurred to some degree with sales of other items.

I do think people still look for older designs and I still look for a few older ones myself. But as it was said upthread, I have so many now that I can't just randomly add on because something is a deal or even if I want to "try it out" as a design. Except for a few specific things I am looking for, there is just too much overlap.

 

[bunnycat]

A postscript
My perception of the scarf market is very much driven by what is today's top price paid for the classic 90cm grails (TURANDOT, MYTHIQUES in dark green etc). There is of course a different market for the 1990s - 2000s favs and for other categories eg mens or mousses.
There is a recent trend to list at astronomical prices that the market will not bear eg $1200 for an undistinguished relatively-recent 90. Forget those asking prices, look at the sale prices..
The classic grails (MP & T) are in their own universe - there is a lot of emotion about paying $800. But I have not noticed any new classic grails coming out of the recent collections. The last one was SAMURAIS 2.5 years ago, I love KAWA ORA but it will never be a classic grail. The humorous designs (Bajtlik, Gattoni) are wonderful, go for solid prices but will never be classic grails - my opinion - no one has to agree...
So, I wonder if the top of market is being impacted by the fact that there has not been a classic-grail quality new design in 2.5 years ?
Also, the classic grail market has been impacted by authentication issues (cf orange Turandot thread , most of which has been deleted) and the speed at which fakes come out. Fakes come out instantly any more. There used to be a 6 mos lead time for a design to gain a following before it was faked.

I agree the last true standout design was PdeS. I think the jury may still be out on Gattoni. I think Hippopolis will make it long term, not sure about the others but I know *I* will enjoy them for a long time! Even the last Honore design really didn't do much for me. It could be the execution of it in terms of printing didn't seem to be there.

 

[marietouchet]

I agree the last true standout design was PdeS. I think the jury may still be out on Gattoni. I think Hippopolis will make it long term, not sure about the others but I know *I* will enjoy them for a long time! Even the last Honore design really didn't do much for me. It could be the execution of it in terms of printing didn't seem to be there.

Agree the recent questions about printing are crucial

 

[marietouchet]

I agree the last true standout design was PdeS. I think the jury may still be out on Gattoni. I think Hippopolis will make it long term, not sure about the others but I know *I* will enjoy them for a long time! Even the last Honore design really didn't do much for me. It could be the execution of it in terms of printing didn't seem to be there.

Thinking about Gattoni ... Hmm ... Has he fallen into the same black hole as Honore? as Dimitri?
Used to be .... designers did a 90cm every season and some designers had fans lined up for the next one - and a lot of the grails are from artists with big fan bases, not newbies
But, now the output of each designer seems a bit sporadic/erratic, as if Hermes were trying to downplay the cult of each designer
Jamin is an exception - seems to have a steady output, but her thing is to remix a design (CANNES) then to mashup it up (CANNES ET CANNES) - she is the mashup queen, she did the same for ETRIERS & SANGLES - her output is steady, solid but not novel designs
Hermes is trying to mix up the artists more, and perhaps THAT is causing a lack of sustain in the scarf market ?
Where is the 2019AW from Gattoni ?

 

[bunnycat]

Thinking about Gattoni ... Hmm ... Has he fallen into the same black hole as Honore? as Dimitri?
Used to be .... designers did a 90cm every season and some designers had fans lined up for the next one - and a lot of the grails are from artists with big fan bases, not newbies
But, now the output of each designer seems a bit sporadic/erratic, as if Hermes were trying to downplay the cult of each designer
Jamin is an exception - seems to have a steady output, but her thing is to remix a design (CANNES) then to mashup it up (CANNES ET CANNES) - she is the mashup queen, she did the same for ETRIERS & SANGLES - her output is steady, solid but not novel designs
Hermes is trying to mix up the artists more, and perhaps THAT is causing a lack of sustain in the scarf market ?
Where is the 2019AW from Gattoni ?

You do have a point with that one. I do kind of expect to see a more steady set of designs from someone who is very popular, but it seems very chop and change. Also, as you say, lots and lots of repeats of "nice" designs, but not ones that are overly remarkable. But then...if they released PdeS repeatedly, would it become less remarkable, like CdC? It is a "nice" design (and a couple of the issues I'd love to have sometime!), but it doesn't really rank up there with something like PdS, artistically.

Jungle Love might be a better example. It gets released a lot, and some of the releases seem to hit the mark better than others. The tattoo...it's cool....but long lasting? Hmmm...But the new one with the rainbow effect (B/W CW especially) will probably have a more long lasting following and is truly stunning in some CWs.

 

[textilegirl]

"Grail' is such a personal thing unless you're talking about serious collector grails as @marietouchet mentioned, and I agree with her, that's another category entirely. I suspect most of us have our lists of designs/cws we missed the first go around, or something ignored then and coveted now, and the lists probably include designs like Turandot (mine does ). I wonder though if marietouchet's point about 'chatter' being a fundamental driver of 'grail-dom' isn't really the crux of the matter. Or maybe 'grail' isn't really the most accurate term; 'hyper-popular' might be more on point. If we're all following our mother's guidance not to say anything if there's nothing nice to be said, and of course no one wants to rain on a scarfie's parade, is anyone really going to step up and say, "wow, that one's a dud?" And further, there's always something new around the bend to get excited about, either designs or cws or both, so it's not easy for an issue to have the serious staying power that I think would cement it as a grail.

I haven't seen any definitive numbers that would lead me to conclude there's a true slump, but the anecdotal evidence suggests that many longer time collectors have bulging scarf drawers and no real inclination to add to the piles unless it's for something beyond incredible, to satisfy a whim, to fill a cw hole, or some similarly strong impetus. I think it also matters whether you think the season's offerings have hit a sweet spot for you, otherwise...meh.

Finally, I suspect there's a larger issue at work with how the perception of the H silk scarf has changed over the years (from the 1950's to today); its status as a signifier isn't necessarily what it used to be. I happen to adore Christine Lagarde's style, but is there anyone under 40 who is widely recognized in a favorable context, and who's signature style includes an H scarf? This is probably just a kernel of an even larger conversation about the nature of fashion and style in the 21st century, but that's a broader topic

 

[BagsRGreat]

Question: Is there a scarf slump?

Answer: Well, you sure wouldn't think so at my home!