WARNING, Paypal just made me lose $20 THOUSAND dollars from a scamming buyer

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#1,233
*Heather* said:
Well if your account is negative, then that must mean you removed the original 11K? So basically, you will be hounded by collections until you pay it. I had this happen to me, (long story, same scenario) but I just let it stay negative and told Paypal to screw themselves because they sided with a scamming buyer of mine a while back, and will let them pay for their bad decision. I opened another account and still get collections to this day because of it. Paypal is relentless in their pursuit. My point is that you did get the money out, right? At least if you did, it wouldn't be such a hard hit. Ugh, makes me ill the power Paypal has. I don't know who the bigger criminal is.
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Wow, heather, good point. Does this collection go on your credit report? I guess you can always dispute it. You are right, paypal is not your PAL.
 
#1,234
Kristie, I am sorry this happen to you, wow. Thanks for posting this so others like myself can learn from it. I think it is tough, because as a buyer, I have terrible experience with sellers also. I am afraid to sell anything on Ebay because of these issues. I wonder what is a safe way to sell? Would someone with experience selling on Ebay chime in? I know, no int'l bidders, no bidders with less then 20 feedbacks, no bidders with negative feedback. Is there any other seller protection?

Thanks!
 
#1,235
kristie said:
I am so sick I can barely type this.

Here is the Cliffs Notes version of the story:
Zero FB buyer buys a Hermes Birkin from me off of Ebay but via Paypal. Bag is authentic without a doubt. I sold it for around $11K and placed a SECURITY TAG on it.

Buyer receives the bag, loves the bag and states this in an email.

Buyer files a SNAD for a non authentic bag the SAME day she emailed me telling me she loved it.

Never contacts me, nothing.........

My PP account was $11K NEGATIVE for well over a month while PP "investigated."

Paypal never asked me to provide anything to them. BUT I did anyways to protect myself. I sent them the receipt for the bag, and I also had it authenticated from a verified authenticator of Hermes on their letterhead. This authentication service is part of a copyright protection legal firm. I paid $150 out of my own pocket to show without a shadow of a doubt the bag is authentic.

I also sent them all of the emails back and forth prior to the sale and explained on a 3 page letter why I felt the buyer was going to pull a bait and switch because she refused to answer any of my emails.

Well, Paypal does not CARE because today they refunded the buyer all of her money and let her KEEP the bag because she signed an affidavit stating she "destroyed" it.

Sure Paypal.......a scammer just got a $11K bag for FREE and they are going to destroy it???? Yeah, OK.

So, now I lost $11K back to her and she gets to keep my $9K bag. So, I have a total loss of over $20 THOUSAND dollars.

I will NEVER EVER EVER EVER AGAIN use Paypal for Hermes bags EVER!!!!!

I am going to file an appeal but I am sure the same sick people at Paypal that seem to believe all buyers are honest and sellers are liars will find it in her favor again.

Paypal told me I cannot file an appeal because the bag is "destroyed." They told me my only option is to hire an attorney to dispute it with their legal department.

I don't HAVE ANY MONEY for an attorney because I am now out $20K. I want to cry, scream, and hit something. I spoke with a supervisor, I did EVERYTHING and they just keep telling me the same generic answer of , "Paypal has decided to rule this dispute in the buyer's favor." They will not tell me WHY at all!!!!

I absolutely believe that the buyer plotted this all along and had a fake bag that looked like mine already in her possession when she purchased mine. She sent her fake to be "authenticated" as mine and boom! Must be the same bag I sent, right??? I had a security tag on it and PP did NOT CARE. I have been on the phone with them for an hour and spoke with the supervisor that "investigated" it and she said the exact same garbage as the claims rep. "We found it in the buyer's favor and we cannot tell you why." I provided them with a RECEIPT and a legal letter of authenticity!! They said that in ALL cases as SNAD for authenticity, PP will ALWAYS side with the buyer as long as the buyer submits something stating it is not authentic. For instance, she takes a fake bag to be authenticated so they automatically side with them even though I proved the OPPOSITE. They said, "We have no proof she submitted a fake bag, so we have to believe her that she sent the one you sold her." My response was that I did not sell her a fake bag and I submitted a lot of info backing this up. PP said as long as the buyer shows "something" the item is not authentic, they will win and the item will be "destroyed."

So the buyer is ALWAYS right according to them. It is so unreal to me. She said I can only dispute it with an atty outside of Paypal and there is nothing they can do to assist me further. After contacting a few big H resellers I have discovered this EXACT scenario happened to them and that is why they only do wire transfers now. I will NEVER sell ANYONE a H bag without a wire transfer again.

I hope the buyer enjoys her Birkin in Hell.
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I think the other recourse you have is to file a lawsuite against paypal for seller protection and negligence. During the discovery and subpoena, they will have give you the info on the other party such as where she took it to get it authenticated, is it a profesional legitimate business. You can find out things and pursue the buyer also. Did Paypal take the necessary step to look into your side of the story before making the decision? Sometimes, it takes a lawsuit for people to take you seriously.

Good luck. My prayers are with you to get your money back. Wouldn't you lose $9K on the bag only because the $11K is what the buyer paid and its refunded?
 
#1,236
Hi Kristie,

as I see it you have two main avenues for legal recourse (that are financially viable). Both would be against paypal, since it is a company incorporated in the US and therefore an entity you can sue.

The first is to take the action yourself. This would require alot of reading and letter writing on your part, but if you want to dedicate the time to it, you might have some success.

The second is to go to a 'litigation funder'. These are companies who will fund your litigation if they think you have a good chance of succeeding (which you should) and in return they take a certain percentage of the damages or compensation that you recieve when you succeed.

In terms of what the actual cause of action is that you will sue them under, unfortunately I work in Aus and am more familiar with Australian law than US. There is probably a consumer protection law (state or federal) that would apply, and a number of other more general laws. If you decide you want to take action yourself (which would probably involve writing a few letters or 'offers to settle' before commencing any court action, which you don't actually have to proceed to if you don't want), then I can help you find what the best causes of action would be to pursue.

As someone already pointed out, if your paypal account is now in debt because of the forced refund, paypal would have to chase you up for the money instead of vice versa, which puts you in a more convenient position. If they passed the alleged right on to debt collectors, then you could probably threaten to sue the debt collectors for whatever you would've sued paypal for (providing it was an agency-type debt collector that inherited all the liabilities relating to the alleged debt) and that threat in itself may be enough to make them go away. If the money was in your paypal account when the forced refund was issued, the two avenues outlined in the paragraphs above still apply.

Finally, if you really wanted to (and you knew the real name and address of the scamming purchaser), you could look up the legal definition of stealing/robbery (or fraud?) in the criminal code of the country where the scamming buyer lives. If the conduct roughly fits, you could ring the police over there and see if anything happens.

good luck, happy to help if you want me to :)
 
#1,237
I am so sorry this happened to you. The same thing happened to me with my Louis Vuitton purse. I sold it on eBay and the buyer claimed it was fake. I supplied the receipt and everything, however... PayPal rewarded the buyer the money.

I ended up losing my purse and the money. :(
 
#1,238
I had a similar situation, but I was the buyer. I bought an 'authentic' Mulberry bag, but when I got it, it was obviously fake. I contacted PayPal, and I had to do the whole outside authentication process to the tune of $150 and send PP all the documentation. They told me they were waiting for the seller to verify authentication, but since he never did, they gave me back my money and told me to destroy the fake bag. I thought that was so strange because how do they know if I did or not? The whole process took forever.

Even though my case turned out in my favor, they did say they asked the seller to prove authentication, and it just seems so strange and horrible that they didn't ask the same of you, OP. Whatever happens, this is a terribly unfair situation. Not asking you to prove authenticity, just says they only believe the buyer which is not the way to treat a customer. This whole situation makes me not want to deal with PP ever again.

OP, good luck, and I really hope things work out for you eventually!
 
#1,239
OP, I am SO sorry that this happened to you. Like others have recommended here, I hope you are pursuing some kind of legal recourse against PayPal- I bet there's an attorney out there who is willing to take on the case under the premise that their fees would get paid out of any settlement you receive. Good luck and please do keep us posted on what happens.
 
#1,240
I'm so very sorry OP. Stories like this have made me turn exclusively to resellers for my items because I got so tired of sitting on pins and needles waiting it out to see if a buyer was legit. I was just actually considering selling some higher end Tiffany jewelry myself and now I'm thinking no way.
 
#1,242
I really do not understand how paypal could speak for the seller. Not only they issues a refund!!! She kept the bag. Yeah, right, she destroyed it!!! At least what they need to do, make all buyers return the items. I do not buy fakes and if it turned out to be fake, why would I keep it or destroy it??? I will just send it back...
 
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