WARNING, Paypal just made me lose $20 THOUSAND dollars from a scamming buyer

[ChildOfTheMoon]

When a PayPal customer considers creating a PayPal account and logs on
to the site to create one, PayPal provides for them very detailed terms
of use. They are clearly notified that in order to use the system, they
must abide by those terms of use. Should a customer chose not to, they
are welcome to find an alternate way to process their payments

accept for the fact that before they even existed, you could choose any way to pay. This whole little paragraph is wrong. Buyers believe this is the only way to pay and sellers are screwed unless they get creative or break some rules. The very new alternative options are not much better. But to even say this annoys me, because everyone is practically forced to use them.

 

[LindaP]

Registered mail is for items of value, i.e., stock certificates, savings bonds, etc. that can't be easily replaced. It isn't necessary.

The more appropriate equivalent of this type of service is certified mail. It's less expensive and you can still get return receipt.

I was going to say that, but yes that is correct. So many people come into the post office and have registered and certified confused.

 

[ladyash]

I was going to say that, but yes that is correct. So many people come into the post office and have registered and certified confused.

Yep I was confused for a bit. We only have registered mail in Canada and that is for letters you want to be signed for on the other end. We don't have certified mail.
I can't remember if the OP was from Canada or if the buyer was? But it would make a difference how the letters can be sent. A registered letter from Canada to the states is $14.95+tax!!

 

[emcosmo1639]

Registered mail is for items of value, i.e., stock certificates, savings bonds, etc. that can't be easily replaced. It isn't necessary.

The more appropriate equivalent of this type of service is certified mail. It's less expensive and you can still get return receipt.

Haha...that's what I meant. The word escaped me and I definitely misworded it. CERTIFIED is the way I've always mailed things. And if there is no PO Box or it needs a little added "punch" I'll add the signature. But the certified mail is cheap and easy. My bad :shame:

 

[BatLoverGirl]

I'm just shocked that she said:
"I apologize for any inconvenience caused with respect to this matter and appreciate the opportunity to address your concerns."

I don't know about her, but to any normal person TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS is NOT an "inconvenience". I mean really?

 

[boyoverboard]

I'm just shocked that she said:
"I apologize for any inconvenience caused with respect to this matter and appreciate the opportunity to address your concerns."

I don't know about her, but to any normal person TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS is NOT an "inconvenience". I mean really?

Agree. Shocking does not begin to cover it.

OP, I am literally stunned after reading (some of) this thread. I can't work through it in its entirety, although I wish I had time to do so! It's just awful that PayPal can get away with treating good, honest sellers like this. This is a perfect example of why I want to stop selling on eBay altogether. I am only an occasional seller, and when I get rid of another couple of things I want to sell, that's it - I'm only going to be on the buying end of things. Though truth be told, if I wasn't being forced into paying via PayPal because of eBay's policies, I would not be giving them any custom whatsoever. I find them absolutely appalling.

It truly is disgusting that a seller can go to such extreme lengths to prove without a shadow of a doubt that the item they have sold is completely legit, but in one fell swoop an abhorrent scumbag of a buyer can totally destroy you. That is an insane amount of money for you to be out, and for PayPal to respond in this fashion is just unbelievable.

I sincerely wish you all the best in finding a recourse and getting some justice. I really hope the buyer gets what's coming to her.

 

[SpeedyJC]

I am so sick I can barely type this.

Here is the Cliffs Notes version of the story:
Zero FB buyer buys a Hermes Birkin from me off of Ebay but via Paypal. Bag is authentic without a doubt. I sold it for around $11K and placed a SECURITY TAG on it.

Buyer receives the bag, loves the bag and states this in an email.

Buyer files a SNAD for a non authentic bag the SAME day she emailed me telling me she loved it.

Never contacts me, nothing.........

My PP account was $11K NEGATIVE for well over a month while PP "investigated."

Paypal never asked me to provide anything to them. BUT I did anyways to protect myself. I sent them the receipt for the bag, and I also had it authenticated from a verified authenticator of Hermes on their letterhead. This authentication service is part of a copyright protection legal firm. I paid $150 out of my own pocket to show without a shadow of a doubt the bag is authentic.

I also sent them all of the emails back and forth prior to the sale and explained on a 3 page letter why I felt the buyer was going to pull a bait and switch because she refused to answer any of my emails.

Well, Paypal does not CARE because today they refunded the buyer all of her money and let her KEEP the bag because she signed an affidavit stating she "destroyed" it.

Sure Paypal.......a scammer just got a $11K bag for FREE and they are going to destroy it???? Yeah, OK.

So, now I lost $11K back to her and she gets to keep my $9K bag. So, I have a total loss of over $20 THOUSAND dollars.

I will NEVER EVER EVER EVER AGAIN use Paypal for Hermes bags EVER!!!!!

I am going to file an appeal but I am sure the same sick people at Paypal that seem to believe all buyers are honest and sellers are liars will find it in her favor again.

Paypal told me I cannot file an appeal because the bag is "destroyed." They told me my only option is to hire an attorney to dispute it with their legal department.

I don't HAVE ANY MONEY for an attorney because I am now out $20K. I want to cry, scream, and hit something. I spoke with a supervisor, I did EVERYTHING and they just keep telling me the same generic answer of , "Paypal has decided to rule this dispute in the buyer's favor." They will not tell me WHY at all!!!!

I absolutely believe that the buyer plotted this all along and had a fake bag that looked like mine already in her possession when she purchased mine. She sent her fake to be "authenticated" as mine and boom! Must be the same bag I sent, right??? I had a security tag on it and PP did NOT CARE. I have been on the phone with them for an hour and spoke with the supervisor that "investigated" it and she said the exact same garbage as the claims rep. "We found it in the buyer's favor and we cannot tell you why." I provided them with a RECEIPT and a legal letter of authenticity!! They said that in ALL cases as SNAD for authenticity, PP will ALWAYS side with the buyer as long as the buyer submits something stating it is not authentic. For instance, she takes a fake bag to be authenticated so they automatically side with them even though I proved the OPPOSITE. They said, "We have no proof she submitted a fake bag, so we have to believe her that she sent the one you sold her." My response was that I did not sell her a fake bag and I submitted a lot of info backing this up. PP said as long as the buyer shows "something" the item is not authentic, they will win and the item will be "destroyed."

So the buyer is ALWAYS right according to them. It is so unreal to me. She said I can only dispute it with an atty outside of Paypal and there is nothing they can do to assist me further. After contacting a few big H resellers I have discovered this EXACT scenario happened to them and that is why they only do wire transfers now. I will NEVER sell ANYONE a H bag without a wire transfer again.

I hope the buyer enjoys her Birkin in Hell.

WOW I am soooo sorry to hear this happened to you. Pay-Pal is very scary. I have heard many many cases of pay-pal giving full refunds in cases where the buyer claims they never got what they bought even though the item was signed for! Then the seller is out the item and the money!

I just sold three Louis Vuittons, I had a international bidder with zero feedback bid on my bag and I flat out refused to sell it to them as they won (I stated in auction no international bidders). The buyer sent me a message trying to get me to mail it to Central America but I said no way, espeically since they had zero feedback. Luckily ebay cancelled the transaction, thank god Pay Pal wasnt involved.

When I sold my 3 other lv's I transferred the money to my bank and then took it out of my bank account ASAP so it wasnt sitting in the pay pal account or bank account. I was nervous someone would say they didnt get the bag and Pay-Pal would just take the money out of my account, even though I had sig confermation. Atleast with the money out of my pay-pal they would have to fight me for it.

Pay-Pal usually always sides with the buyer, its really sad how many people get ripped off due to pay-pal.

 

[hermesdaisuki]

I hope you fight till the end. This is ridiculous. Btw, I think you lost 9K instead of 20k. because the 11k was paid from the dishonest buyer and she got it back later. it is not really out from your pocket. so your loss is 9k. Less than 20k but still painful.
There should be a detective who takes evidence pictures and protect honest sellers on ebay. These scams are horrible.

 

[ellek72]

Man, this thread is scary! I am so sorry this has happened to you and I hope it all works out. Selling on Evilbay these days is terrifying.

 

[ILUVLOUIS2010]

I'm so sorry, OP! I'm not too familiar on how the legal systems work, but do you plan to escalate this to civil court?

This all seems odd to me - PayPal is much more careful than this, and the buyer would have had to submit something showing it was a fake. My gut is telling me there is more to the story.

On the other hand - anyone takes a risk sending to anyone else an expensive item - I worry about $1,000 items, let alone something that cost $11,000.00, and maybe for those type of transactions there should be another way to handle them so this doesn't happen.

 

[BeenBurned]

This all seems odd to me - PayPal is much more careful than this, and the buyer would have had to submit something showing it was a fake. My gut is telling me there is more to the story.

On the other hand - anyone takes a risk sending to anyone else an expensive item - I worry about $1,000 items, let alone something that cost $11,000.00, and maybe for those type of transactions there should be another way to handle them so this doesn't happen.

Before you allege that there's more to the story, you need to read the whole thread.

Early on, the OP stated that the buyer had the bag deemed fake by submitting photos of a fake and paypal wouldn't even look at the seller's professional authentication proving the bag as authentic.

 

[ILUVLOUIS2010]

Before you allege that there's more to the story, you need to read the whole thread.

Early on, the OP stated that the buyer had the bag deemed fake by submitting photos of a fake and paypal wouldn't even look at the seller's professional authentication proving the bag as authentic.

I know all of that - but in a situation like that where you have the buyer saying its fake with a letter, and the seller saying its real with a receipt and a letter, then usually in that situation PayPal must tell the buyer to return the bag to the seller and will refund the money. Please don't get me wrong - but I don't hear of many stories like this - I think its awful what happened, but on the same hand, selling an item for $11,000 without any protection is also something I wouldn't do because of this very type of thing. We all have to protect ourselves.

I'm also thinking if the OP put a security tag in the handbag - I'd certainly like to make darn sure that one or more of the photos the buyer sent for authentication included the security tag. That is something PayPal should have asked for as well.

As the expression goes - there are 3 sides to every story and for that amount of money - something just doesn't seem right.

 

[AECornell]

You're starting a battle here that you're not going to win. OP is in no way lying, so the only "fishy" thing going on is the buyer and what eBay and PP are doing.

I know all of that - but in a situation like that where you have the buyer saying its fake with a letter, and the seller saying its real with a receipt and a letter, then usually in that situation PayPal must tell the buyer to return the bag to the seller and will refund the money. Please don't get me wrong - but I don't hear of many stories like this - I think its awful what happened, but on the same hand, selling an item for $11,000 without any protection is also something I wouldn't do because of this very type of thing. We all have to protect ourselves.

I'm also thinking if the OP put a security tag in the handbag - I'd certainly like to make darn sure that one or more of the photos the buyer sent for authentication included the security tag. That is something PayPal should have asked for as well.

As the expression goes - there are 3 sides to every story and for that amount of money - something just doesn't seem right.

 

[ILUVLOUIS2010]

You're starting a battle here that you're not going to win. OP is in no way lying, so the only "fishy" thing going on is the buyer and what eBay and PP are doing.

Not starting any battles - but there are ALWAYS other sides to a story.

Regardless, it is very risky to sell an expensive item to someone you don't know - doesn't matter if its a $1,000 item or an $11,000.00 item. I certainly would have made sure the item itself was insured (and I'm not talking about thru USPS because they would only insure for damage during shipping process), would have definitely evaluated whether or not I wanted to sell it to an international member, and taken a videotape of the bag, all of the details of the bag, showing it being packed, wrapped and shipped in one continuous video to show I sent an original bag to the buyer and if something happened - then the buyer is the criminal. When there is that much money at stake I would have done all I could to protect myself. That's all I'm saying - call it a battle or not.

 

[BeenBurned]

As the expression goes - there are 3 sides to every story and for that amount of money - something just doesn't seem right.

Not starting any battles - but there are ALWAYS other sides to a story.

There are NOT always 3 sides to the story.

Believe me, if there were holes in the OP's story, there are detectives here who would have found it and questioned her. In this case, there are two scammers; the first is the buyer who lied and second is paypal for it's screwup and inability and unwillingness to admit to its error.