Vintage Coach Photos & Chat

I have a question that I can’t find by searching the forum. What’s the history of the 9790? I’ve recently purchased one that has an all numeric creed, with a 3 digit second half of the serial number. I’ve seen a few of these before. When did Coach start making the City bag, and can I find out what year exactly mine was made?
 
I have a question that I can’t find by searching the forum. What’s the history of the 9790? I’ve recently purchased one that has an all numeric creed, with a 3 digit second half of the serial number. I’ve seen a few of these before. When did Coach start making the City bag, and can I find out what year exactly mine was made?
I am not sure you can find the exact year if it had an all numeric ID. But you can get a range. Is it stamped at the bottom of the Creed , Made in New York City, USA or Made in the USA or Made in the United States? From sometime in the later 70’s until just before 1988, the Creed with a NYC stamp was used. From about ‘88 to ‘93 production was no longer only in NYC, hence the change to USA/United States. In 94, the change to alpha numeric alpha - 4 digit style code was instituted.
Guides authored by our fine authenticators are found in Shopping subforum in the SaleArea Guides thread pinned at the beginning. Highly recommended read.
Others may have catalog pics pinpointing the intro of the City. I happen to have a NYC City :biggrin:
 
I have a question that I can’t find by searching the forum. What’s the history of the 9790? I’ve recently purchased one that has an all numeric creed, with a 3 digit second half of the serial number. I’ve seen a few of these before. When did Coach start making the City bag, and can I find out what year exactly mine was made?

Here it is. Forget any thing else you have read on the internet. Here is the real deal:

3- Coach Creeds - the Basic Facts - SALEAREA COACH GUIDES

*by "Hyacinth" for Salearea

This was the first in a series of Guides that Salearea posted to help the many lovers of Coach's products understand a bit more about them and to clear up some of the misinformation often found on the Internet.

The "Creed" is a good place to start. This is the famous statement stamped into the pocket or onto a leather patch that's sewn into the inside of the Coach bag that usually begins "This is a Coach Bag..." and then details the materials used in the bag, sometimes states where it was made, and in newer bags ends with Coach's assurance of their commitment to Enduring Quality. Coach started using the Creed stamp sometime around the mid-1970s, right around the time that iconic designer Bonnie Cashin left the company. Before that there might only be an add-on metal emblem or simple stamp with the Coach logo, or a Cashin label and striped lining..

Over the years there have been many changes to the wording, design, fonts and layout of the creed statement. In the early days they didn't even have serial numbers, these weren't used until some time in the later 1970s to early 1980s. (Many of the dates are educated guesses since Coach doesn't make their records public and only someone who has actually kept records and photos going back that far can make accurate estimates of the dates involved.) Early creeds mentioned the natural "scars, scratches, veins and wrinkles" of Coach's glove-tanned leather, and this appeared in most vintage (20 years old or more) Coach bags and briefcases. Since early Coach bags were unlined the creed was stamped right into the leather usually of the back inside pocket.


Once serial numbers began to be used, they originally had 7 numbers with the abbreviation for Number "No" in front (serials without that "No" in front usually mean Korean-made fakes), then 3 numbers, a dash, and 4 more numbers (No 123-4567). Somewhere around 1989-1990 they changed to 4 numbers, the dash and 3 numbers (No 1234-567) and this format was used until 1994. (There are also a handful of bags from 1991-92 that still used the older 3+4 number format). The serial numbers were completely random and had nothing at all to to with the style number of the bags, so there's no way to learn the style number from the serial number of a bag made before 1994. Every all-number serial was unique to each bag and never repeated, multiple bags with exactly the same all-number serials are very probably fake. (Serial numbers are a complicated subject and one that I'll cover in another post.)


At first all Coaches were made in the original factory in New York City, and the early creeds say "Made in New York City, U.S.A." on the bottom. When Coach began adding new plants in the late 1980s, the wording at the bottom of the creed was changed starting in 1988 to "Made In The United States". Production at the NYC plant was eventually stopped so that the building could be used as Coach's corporate Headquarters. All this happened shortly after the owners who had built up Coach as a handbag and fine leatherware maker sold the company to Sara Lee in 1985. New plants were quickly added including one in Puerto Rico which was still considered a U.S. plant. Coach opened retail locations in Japan and other countries and opened their first outlet stores starting around 1990.


Then in 1991 Coach began producing several lines of pebbled leather bags in Italy. The early line called Dakota Classics had a creed patch and statement unique to that style bag, but no serial numbers at all. Then came the Sheridan line which was made in Italy, the US and also Costa Rica, some with, and some without, serial numbers. The country the bag was made in was still noted on the bottom line of the creed, which on these bags was now a separate stamped leather patch sewn onto the lining or right onto the inside back pocket.


Starting in 1994, the creed and serial number formats went through a major change. The country of manufacture was now stated in the second sentence of the creed, although the change was stretched out over about 18 months so some older or smaller plants would still be using the old format with the plant location at the bottom of the creed statement until some time in 1996. The serial numbers were completely changed to show the month (a letter of the alphabet between A and M), year ("4" for 1994, up to "3" for 2003), and plant of manufacture (this could be either a letter or a number). The format has stayed pretty much the same since then although when 2004 rolled around a zero had to be put in front of the old 1-digit month code so as not to create confusion - bags made in 2004 (except for some bags from Costa Rica) or later have 2-digit codes matching the last 2 numbers of the actual calendar year 2005=05, 2010=10, etc). Plant codes have been expanded to 2 digits, and style numbers to 5 digits in late 2006. Other codes such as "F" in front of the style code indicating an item had been made for the Factory Store outlets (MFF=Made For Factory) can also appear on many Coach styles. Major changes like that sometimes meant mistakes were made, and there are a surprising number of genuine Coach bags where the serial number got a bit mixed up - have them authenticated here if you're not sure about them.


Coach's creeds change constantly. There are no "rules" that accurately state how a creed should look, what it should say, how it should be stamped, how many digits should be in the serial number - and like everything else with Coach, what seems like a common "rule" will ALWAYS have exceptions. Generally creeds should be evenly stamped, the edges should be cut absolutely straight, the numbers should be even, etc. But older creeds and serial numbers were hand-stamped, each plant had its own individual stamps, and often numbers WERE uneven or even different sizes. The original pebbled leather Sonoma bags from the mid-1990s had probably the sloppiest creeds in Coach's history, but that doesn't mean they were fake.

Newer styles have much more consistency, but creeds, like serial numbers, are a really complicated subject and figuring out whether unusual features in a creed mean the bag is counterfeit should ALWAYS be left to Coach experts. There are several places where expert opinions can be found, here at tPF (the BEST place on the 'net for authentication!) and Ebay's Fashion Forum/Discussion Board, found here:
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Fashion/bd-p/fashion

It's usually safe to say that if there are misspellings, incorrect punctuation, run-together words like "thefinestdetails" or "superiorcraftsmanship", sloppy uneven stitching, uneven edges, English that came from a bad translation program, or a description that doesn't match the actual bag such as a creed saying the bag is made of glove-tanned cowhide when it's really made of Signature C fabric, there's a very good chance the item is counterfeit. Have it authenticated here. There are a huge number of fake Coaches in circulation and some of them can fool even the experts - don't take that chance!

The details of the creed are VERY important in proving or disproving authenticity. Sellers need to show clear, readable close ups (use your camera's Macro setting) of the creed, and buyers need to insist on seeing creed photos before deciding to bid or buy. Ask here or at Ebay's forums first, before you buy OR before you think a creed doesn't follow the "rules" and you report it as fake.

Remember, not all Coach bags will have creeds! Smaller bags like Minis, Crossbodys, Pouches, Swingpacks, etc, may or may not have creeds, which may or may not have serial numbers. And styles made before the mid-1970s or during the Bonnie Cashin Era (1962 to 1974) probably won't have creeds at all. If some seller claims that her item is "Cashin-era" and it has a creed stamp or a serial number, she's not correct.

(published 2011, updated May 2018)
 
I have a question that I can’t find by searching the forum. What’s the history of the 9790? I’ve recently purchased one that has an all numeric creed, with a 3 digit second half of the serial number. I’ve seen a few of these before. When did Coach start making the City bag, and can I find out what year exactly mine was made?

ONE IMPORTANT NOTE - any time you're asking for opinions or a "history" based on a specific bag, if you didn't already have the bag authenticated here at tPF, PLEASE POST PHOTOS OF THE CREED AND SERIAL NUMBER even if you aren't asking specifically about authenticity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lake Effect
I have a question that I can’t find by searching the forum. What’s the history of the 9790? I’ve recently purchased one that has an all numeric creed, with a 3 digit second half of the serial number. I’ve seen a few of these before. When did Coach start making the City bag, and can I find out what year exactly mine was made?
The city bag was made for a long time. I've seen a handful of them with NYC creeds, but those are rare. They were probably made right before they switched to putting Made in the United States on the creed. So I believe the first city bags were made in 1987 or 1988. If yours has a number format of xxxx-xxx with a Made in the United States at the bottom of the creed wording was probably made in the early 90s, before 1994 when they started putting style numbers in the creed. They continued making city bags, but possibly not continuously, until around 2013, I believe.
 
The city bag was made for a long time. I've seen a handful of them with NYC creeds, but those are rare. They were probably made right before they switched to putting Made in the United States on the creed. So I believe the first city bags were made in 1987 or 1988. If yours has a number format of xxxx-xxx with a Made in the United States at the bottom of the creed wording was probably made in the early 90s, before 1994 when they started putting style numbers in the creed. They continued making city bags, but possibly not continuously, until around 2013, I believe.
:flowers: Ty! I remember traveling to NYC during ‘87 and ‘88 as I lived on Long Island at the time. Very cool to know that info about my Made in NYC City :smile: