VCA ~ Van Cleef Arpels Discussion thread!

[HADASSA]

Although this has worked in the past and may continue to work for some, I would caution members about making purchases while assuming that VCA will do this.

I have a long standing relationship at two different VCA boutiques. This year ,on two separate occasions, I had trouble getting legitimate work done to vintage pieces that I had purchased years ago through a jeweler (who was an authorized VCA dealer at the time of purchase but has since stopped selling VCA). There was no question of authenticity , I simply needed to have work done.

I was told the reason there was trouble with the workshop was that VCA’s records did not show me as the owner of the pieces . In the end, my SA’s were able to push the work through based on my VCA relationship, so it all worked out for me .

This was the first time I have ever heard this issue and I became concerned because I own some other vintage pieces where I am not the original owner. When I expressed my concern I was told given my relationship with VCA, I should be able to get work done on those pieces . My speculation , and it is just speculation, is that VCA wants to discourage buying from the secondary market and then sending to VCA for work/authentication.

To be clear, I am in the US and this is only my experience, your experience may vary. But the fact that it happened to me twice indicates to me that changes are happening.

This - bolded in red!!!

The secondary market is a nightmare and when we could have once gauged a FAKE with a much lower price being offered for the item, now the counterfeiters/unscrupulous resellers are offering at much higher prices than the norm.

Buyers BEWARE !!!!!!

 

[Mali_]

Good to know. I have to get items cleaned - going to NYC so hoping the NY flagship will clean them. Do you think that will be an issue? If so, I’d have to rethink VCA. I see that as them standing behind their brand and helping a client, even if I have to pay. It stops being luxury if you can’t even get that done.

As to them requiring you to be owner of the piece and/or having a record of CoA in order to service you, I won’t even begin to discuss the negative effect on commerce that that causes. It’s bone-headed, particularly in the US.

Although this has worked in the past and may continue to work for some, I would caution members about making purchases while assuming that VCA will do this.

I have a long standing relationship at two different VCA boutiques. This year ,on two separate occasions, I had trouble getting legitimate work done to vintage pieces that I had purchased years ago through a jeweler (who was an authorized VCA dealer at the time of purchase but has since stopped selling VCA). There was no question of authenticity , I simply needed to have work done.

I was told the reason there was trouble with the workshop was that VCA’s records did not show me as the owner of the pieces . In the end, my SA’s were able to push the work through based on my VCA relationship, so it all worked out for me .

This was the first time I have ever heard this issue and I became concerned because I own some other vintage pieces where I am not the original owner. When I expressed my concern I was told given my relationship with VCA, I should be able to get work done on those pieces . My speculation , and it is just speculation, is that VCA wants to discourage buying from the secondary market and then sending to VCA for work/authentication.

To be clear, I am in the US and this is only my experience, your experience may vary. But the fact that it happened to me twice indicates to me that changes are happening.

 

[sbelle]

Good to know. I have to get items cleaned - going to NYC so hoping the NY flagship will clean them. Do you think that will be an issue? .

I can’t imagine that you will have any problem with cleaning.

My issues were related to sending pieces to the workshop for adjustments. In the end it all worked out for me, but I don’t know what would have happened if I wasn’t a known client. And of course as I said before , others may have a different experience than me.

 

[HADASSA]

I can’t imagine that you will have any problem with cleaning.

My issues were related to sending pieces to the workshop for adjustments. In the end it all worked out for me, but I don’t know what would have happened if I wasn’t a known client. And of course as I said before , others may have a different experience than me.

I think this is a warning to ALL of us thinking about purchasing on the secondary market - authentic or not.

Like many businesses battling fakes, this might be a stop gap for VCA in dealing with the counterfeiters. I mean we are not aware how many requests they get every day in trying to circumvent paying for an outright authentication.

There are people who purchase just to make a premium on hard to find items, instead of really appreciating the brand. And together with resellers, charge exorbitant prices. To quote a fellow member, "It's daylight robbery."

In my humble opinion, I can see this refusal of VCA to attend to pre-owned pieces, a LEVELING OF THE PRICE GOUGING of sorts.

I have never personally bought from the secondary market but this can be a great deterrent to clients who choose to, if this is VCA'S policy going forward.

 

[jimmie staton]

Good to know. I have to get items cleaned - going to NYC so hoping the NY flagship will clean them. Do you think that will be an issue? If so, I’d have to rethink VCA. I see that as them standing behind their brand and helping a client, even if I have to pay. It stops being luxury if you can’t even get that done.

As to them requiring you to be owner of the piece and/or having a record of CoA in order to service you, I won’t even begin to discuss the negative effect on commerce that that causes. It’s bone-headed, particularly in the US.

Hello Mali, when you go to the Flagship location on Fifth Ave, NYC … ask for Yvan, he is my guy and I purchased all my VCA through him...and I am almost sure he is willing to help, just make sure that he will be there the day you plan on going and secure an appointment. Let me know when you plan to go, and I will call him up personally to make your visit easier. You can eat lunch at BG restaurant in Bergdorf Goodman, where VCA is housed next door while you wait. Or you can stay in VCA and try on everything in the store while drinking champagne and eating chocolates until your items are cleaned and polished.
"J!m"

 

[HADASSA]

Good to know. I have to get items cleaned - going to NYC so hoping the NY flagship will clean them. Do you think that will be an issue? If so, I’d have to rethink VCA. I see that as them standing behind their brand and helping a client, even if I have to pay. It stops being luxury if you can’t even get that done.

As to them requiring you to be owner of the piece and/or having a record of CoA in order to service you, I won’t even begin to discuss the negative effect on commerce that that causes. It’s bone-headed, particularly in the US.

I can’t imagine that you will have any problem with cleaning.

My issues were related to sending pieces to the workshop for adjustments. In the end it all worked out for me, but I don’t know what would have happened if I wasn’t a known client. And of course as I said before , others may have a different experience than me.

Hello Mali, when you go to the Flagship location on Fifth Ave, NYC … ask for Yvan, he is my guy and I purchased all my VCA through him...and I am almost sure he is willing to help, just make sure that he will be there the day you plan on going and secure an appointment. Let me know when you plan to go, and I will call him up personally to make your visit easier. You can eat lunch at BG restaurant in Bergdorf Goodman, where VCA is housed next door while you wait. Or you can stay in VCA and try on everything in the store while drinking champagne and eating chocolates until your items are cleaned and polished.
"J!m"

I know this will affect even those of us whose tastes change over time and want to curate our collections by selling our pieces on the pre-loved market.

What can I say??? We just have to be a bit more deliberate in our purchases.

 

[Mali_]

Hello Mali, when you go to the Flagship location on Fifth Ave, NYC … ask for Yvan, he is my guy and I purchased all my VCA through him...and I am almost sure he is willing to help, just make sure that he will be there the day you plan on going and secure an appointment. Let me know when you plan to go, and I will call him up personally to make your visit easier. You can eat lunch at BG restaurant in Bergdorf Goodman, where VCA is housed next door while you wait. Or you can stay in VCA and try on everything in the store while drinking champagne and eating chocolates until your items are cleaned and polished.
"J!m"

Excellent! Thank you so much. I will send you a message.

 

[Mali_]

I know this will affect even those of us whose tastes change over time and want to curate our collections by selling our pieces on the pre-loved market.

What can I say??? We just have to be a bit more deliberate in our purchases.

We will have to agree to disagree on that one. Sotheby’s, Christie’s, the Real Real, etc. sell VCA’s pieces and will ship to any state, commonwealth, district or territory - whether VCA likes it or not - specifically due to the original owners‘ having a change of heart. This is interstate commerce where US courts don’t care about motivations - they care about impact and effect - whether the owner (individual or a company) can sell legitimately and lawfully owned items free from unnatural impediments in the US marketplace (i.e. unnecessary restrictions designed to either weed out competitors or to restrict owners from selling their items and second hand buyers from routine services). In addition, US courts have held consistently that owners are the masters of the price they charge - so a potential buyer either accepts that price, negotiates for a lower price, or backs away.

Not to make a federal case of it but I’m pretty sure “this refusal of VCA to attend to pre-owned pieces, a LEVELING OF THE PRICE GOUGING of sorts“ would not withstand legal review in these United States.

Clients with authentic items who are legitimately seeking VCA’s post-purchase services, which they would provide to all authentic VCA pieces, should receive those services whether the item is inherited, bought, transferred, or given as a gift. That would accord with current federal law for companies doing interstate business. That is what I would expect from an international company like VCA who is doing business in the US.

 

[EpiFanatic]

We will have to agree to disagree on that one. Sotheby’s, Christie’s, the Real Real, etc. sell VCA’s pieces and will ship to any state, commonwealth, district or territory - whether VCA likes it or not - specifically due to the original owners‘ having a change of heart. This is interstate commerce where US courts don’t care about motivations - they care about impact and effect - whether the owner (individual or a company) can sell legitimately and lawfully owned items free from unnatural impediments in the US marketplace (i.e. unnecessary restrictions designed to either weed out competitors or to restrict owners from selling their items and second hand buyers from routine services). In addition, US courts have held consistently that owners are the masters of the price they charge - so a potential buyer either accepts that price, negotiates for a lower price, or backs away.

Not to make a federal case of it but I’m pretty sure “this refusal of VCA to attend to pre-owned pieces, a LEVELING OF THE PRICE GOUGING of sorts“ would not withstand legal review in these United States.

Clients with authentic items who are legitimately seeking VCA’s post-purchase services, which they would provide to all authentic VCA pieces, should receive those services whether the item is inherited, bought, transferred, or given as a gift. That would accord with current federal law for companies doing interstate business. That is what I would expect from an international company like VCA who is doing business in the US.

Very interesting perspective and very informative. I usually shy away from preloved unless I know there is no way I will resell or if the deal is too good. I haven’t had any I could not pass up in a long time. I would be concerned about VCA servicing pieces I did not buy from them.

 

[sbelle]

Clients with authentic items who are legitimately seeking VCA’s post-purchase services, which they would provide to all authentic VCA pieces, should receive those services whether the item is inherited, bought, transferred, or given as a gift.

Please know I was not meaning to upset anyone by sharing my experiences. That was never my intent. This is the last thing I will say and then I am bowing out!

My understanding, based only on what happened to me, is that VCA is looking to change their policy on how they provide after sales service. It seems very similar to what Chanel did a few years ago, although Chanel's policy was based on the age of the item. I am certainly not an expert, but it would seem strange to me if a company was not allowed to change their after sales service.

 

[jimmie staton]

Excellent! Thank you so much. I will send you a message.

Splendid.
"J!m"

 

[jimmie staton]

We will have to agree to disagree on that one. Sotheby’s, Christie’s, the Real Real, etc. sell VCA’s pieces and will ship to any state, commonwealth, district or territory - whether VCA likes it or not - specifically due to the original owners‘ having a change of heart. This is interstate commerce where US courts don’t care about motivations - they care about impact and effect - whether the owner (individual or a company) can sell legitimately and lawfully owned items free from unnatural impediments in the US marketplace (i.e. unnecessary restrictions designed to either weed out competitors or to restrict owners from selling their items and second hand buyers from routine services). In addition, US courts have held consistently that owners are the masters of the price they charge - so a potential buyer either accepts that price, negotiates for a lower price, or backs away.

Not to make a federal case of it but I’m pretty sure “this refusal of VCA to attend to pre-owned pieces, a LEVELING OF THE PRICE GOUGING of sorts“ would not withstand legal review in these United States.

Clients with authentic items who are legitimately seeking VCA’s post-purchase services, which they would provide to all authentic VCA pieces, should receive those services whether the item is inherited, bought, transferred, or given as a gift. That would accord with current federal law for companies doing interstate business. That is what I would expect from an international company like VCA who is doing business in the US.

Well put and informative... pretty cool how you presented your case, " In the case of Mali vs VCA, I find the evidence is overwhelming and quite compelling... I rule in favor of the plaintiff. The plaintiff (Mali) will be awarded VCA of her choosing at any VCA, free of charge for life. Court is dismissed."
"J!m"

 

[HADASSA]

We will have to agree to disagree on that one. Sotheby’s, Christie’s, the Real Real, etc. sell VCA’s pieces and will ship to any state, commonwealth, district or territory - whether VCA likes it or not - specifically due to the original owners‘ having a change of heart. This is interstate commerce where US courts don’t care about motivations - they care about impact and effect - whether the owner (individual or a company) can sell legitimately and lawfully owned items free from unnatural impediments in the US marketplace (i.e. unnecessary restrictions designed to either weed out competitors or to restrict owners from selling their items and second hand buyers from routine services). In addition, US courts have held consistently that owners are the masters of the price they charge - so a potential buyer either accepts that price, negotiates for a lower price, or backs away.

Not to make a federal case of it but I’m pretty sure “this refusal of VCA to attend to pre-owned pieces, a LEVELING OF THE PRICE GOUGING of sorts“ would not withstand legal review in these United States.

Clients with authentic items who are legitimately seeking VCA’s post-purchase services, which they would provide to all authentic VCA pieces, should receive those services whether the item is inherited, bought, transferred, or given as a gift. That would accord with current federal law for companies doing interstate business. That is what I would expect from an international company like VCA who is doing business in the US.

Please know I was not meaning to upset anyone by sharing my experiences. That was never my intent. This is the last thing I will say and then I am bowing out!

My understanding, based only on what happened to me, is that VCA is looking to change their policy on how they provide after sales service. It seems very similar to what Chanel did a few years ago, although Chanel's policy was based on the age of the item. I am certainly not an expert, but it would seem strange to me if a company was not allowed to change their after sales service.

I think I am in the same boat here as sbelle and would choose not to argue about the laws governing commerce in the United States, since I am not even American nor do I have full knowledge of the law governing such.

But I would say this - we do own business where I live and it becomes a nightmare when, as the legally appointed distributor / agent in the country for a particular commodity, that some people have the audacity to want us to be held responsible for the FAKE items they purchase elsewhere when there is an issue. I spoke specifically concerning this issue and it is our right to refuse to attend to such complaints.

On the other hand, I have purchased most of my VCA pieces from Neiman Marcus, which are not recorded in VCA's system. This too will be a nightmare for me in the event I need work done on any of my pieces and because it does not show up in their system, there is no proof TO THEM that I am the original owner.

I completely agree that it is not fair when items which we own (bought/inherited/gifted) cannot be serviced by VCA or sold if we so choose.

This topic has indeed opened up a Pandora's box, which will be hard to close. And it was never my intent to upset anyone on this forum but to offer plausible reasons for VCA's actions, which again, I am not comfortable with.

 

[EpiFanatic]

I think I am in the same boat here as sbelle and would choose not to argue about the laws governing commerce in the United States, since I am not even American nor do I have full knowledge of the law governing such.

But I would say this - we do own business where I live and it becomes a nightmare when, as the legally appointed distributor / agent in the country for a particular commodity, that some people have the audacity to want us to be held responsible for the FAKE items they purchase elsewhere when there is an issue. I spoke specifically concerning this issue and it is our right to refuse to attend to such complaints.

On the other hand, I have purchased most of my VCA pieces from Neiman Marcus, which are not recorded in VCA's system. This too will be a nightmare for me in the event I need work done on any of my pieces and because it does not show up in their system, there is no proof TO THEM that I am the original owner.

I completely agree that it is not fair when items which we own (bought/inherited/gifted) cannot be serviced by VCA or sold if we so choose.

This topic has indeed opened up a Pandora's box, which will be hard to close. And it was never my intent to upset anyone on this forum but to offer plausible reasons for VCA's actions, which again, I am not comfortable with.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I don’t think there is anything to argue about at all. Each person’s experience may differ depending on each person’s specific experience with VCA, however it is purchased. If there will be any arguing, it will be with VCA, and I certainly hope for each one of us that it will not be necessary. Cheers.

 

[etoupebirkin]

I think persons who want to authenticate the piece(s) they bought on the secondary market should pay for the authentication via VCA. It should be factored into the purchase decision.

Bringing a piece in for cleaning in the hopes of it will be authenticated via acceptance is disingenuous and hurts everyone. I know of long time VCA clients who purchased items legitimately through VCA or Neimans, but misplaced the COA. So this policy has the potential to hurt long standing clients.

When I have sold items privately, I always include a bank notarized document with a statement transferring ownership of the item to the new owner including the PayPal transaction number as proof of sale.

Regarding price gouging on the secondary market, I've only seen that on turquoise, lapis vintage Alhambra and with certain Holiday pendants -- limited edition items in which the laws of supply and demand govern. I do not think VCA's lack of service will affect these transactions much.

I've heard that Graff will not work on pieces purchased in the secondary market too. Perhaps VCA is emulating Graff.