tPF authenticator discussion

[missbanff]

I think post count/length of membership is a fine line, to be honest.

Everyone should definitely feel welcome to share their opinions and ideas, there is no question about that.

But on the other hand, would you join a club IRL and as a new member, start pushing your opinion and telling long time members of that club how things should be handled?

I think common courtesy would dictate that NO, it shouldn't happen.

Like I mentioned earlier, those of us who have been here for years have seen things that new members may not imagine - like OMGVICTIMS who are actually scammers. It happens time and time again. Or people submitting items for authentications that later we find out are resellers (which is not allowed per forum rules).

I've seen fairly new members in the eBay forum TELL other posters how they should be running their eBay business, or that the way other people handle certain situations is 'bad business', or telling the authenticators HOW they should be authenticating.

There have been LOTS (IMHO) of ideas presented in this thread that have been expressed concisely and clearly.....and there has been sanctimonious garbage expressed as well, whether that was the intention or not.

So while new members shouldn't have to tip-toe around long timers, there is something to be said for a little respect being shown to those us of who have been here, helping people, for YEARS.

 

[JustAgUrL]

Exactly this. Some may see the fact that one's been on here for so very long as possibly being "burned out" and tired of it all. It's totally not fair to take a newbies post and turn it into something based on "experience" etc. Sometimes newcomers can have a fresh spin on things that can be positively enlightening if given the chance.
This is kind of reminding me of an "old boys' club" kind of mentality.
Not flattering.

Some may see the fact that one's been on here for so very long as possibly being "burned out" and tired of it all. It's totally not fair to take a newbies post and turn it into something based on "experience" etc. Sometimes newcomers can have a fresh spin on things that can be positively enlightening if given the chance.




Some may see the fact that one's been on here for so very long as possibly being "burned out" and tired of it all.

WHAT??
for ONE, there is NOT ONE Authenticator on this forum who I would want to
label as "burned out and tired of it all"
I have no idea what that even means to be honest. I try to not make assumptions
about other peoples mind set.

It's totally not fair to take a newbies post and turn it into something based on "experience"

Actually, Yes it is... Of course that would not be so on the "Show me your Handbag"
threads...
BUt, on the AT Threads and ebay, YES, Experience is EVERYTHING.

This is learned by being around ebay and TPF for years,
this is NOT experience a person can gain from working for Saks,
or from owning 20 handbags.

I would not trust a person who doesn't have a proven track record.
This is way too much money to trust on somebody new... I'm sorry,
BUT, there is NO WAY I would put that much money on the line, because the
person has a fresh set of eyes. I don't want Fresh Eyes, I want experience.


This is kind of reminding me of an "old boys' club" kind of mentality.
Not flattering

It sort of is an Old Boys Club, whether we like it or not, there are only
a HANDFUL of experienced Authenticators who are willing to DONATE their time
in this fashion. They are THE BEST OF THE BEST... Their track record speaks for itself.
When the Chanel and Prada Authenticators left , there was NOBODY who could step in that had the track record of the ones who left. Those threads were left
with NO authenticators.... When that happens, it is NOT GOOD for anybody.
This is not something that just anybody can do.
Yes, New Companies crop up (with new fresh eyes) and offer Authentications as a Paid service,
BUT, many are proven to not be very reputable, and the mistakes end up costing people a LOT of money.

So, Yes, Experience a PROVEN Track record, and YEARS of it are what make the difference.

 

[JustAgUrL]

I still really feel that overall, tPF is a very friendly community that while large still has very kind members. Of course we get some people that are not well suited for the forum, and if they do not get banned immediately, they eventually will because they prove that they are not a good fit here.

With so many members, we have a system in place to monitor issues that we see. Is it perfect? No, definitely not. And we are working on changing it. But overall it has given me and Vlad a good birds eye view of what's happening.

I think some people tend to be more straight forward than others, some are harsher, and some people are just rude. This happens in our daily lives and here too. But like I said before, we want to make sure this is a fun and kind place for people

I think some people tend to be more straight forward than others, some are harsher, and some people are just rude. This happens in our daily lives and here too. But like I said before, we want to make sure this is a fun and kind place for people




This is so true!!!
In my opinion, part of it is cultural.
Heck, just look at the difference between New Yorkers and Californians?
Look at the South and Southern Hospitality.

Here on tPF, there are people from ALL over the world. Some who speak
perfect english, some who speak English as their 4th or 5th Language, and
are not as fluent.

Originally, I come from Seattle, and people there tend to be VERY nice...
I mean just genuinely SWEET.
Almost sticky sweet. In fact, I bend over backwards to write in such a way, so that
I can make sure that I am clear... so, that people will not think I am rude.
I say please before I ask for anything, and say thank you probably more than any other words.

When I moved to Scandinavia, it was a major culture shock.
While people here are NICE, they are not as careful with their wording,
and it was easy to take offense easily.
My husband doesn't pepper his language with a bunch of Please's and Thank You's...
At first I thought it was rude and a bit blunt, but, I have come to learn, that it is just implied
that you assume that the person is polite.. so there is no need to say Thank You or please every other word.

My point of that is that every culture has different ways of communicating,
and that it is probably best to TRY not to take anything personally, and to just accept that some people are more blunt and straight forward, and that they don't mean anything by this. They are just used to communicating in a different way.

When I was a newbe' I used to think that some of the more long time members were a bit blunt.
Then I just realized that they communicate differently than I do, and I shouldn't be offended by this, I shouldn't take it personally.
and fact is, those same people that we think might be a bit blunt, are the VERY same people I would want in my corner should I ever face being scammed by a buyer or seller. They are some of the NICEST most helpful and selfless people on this forum.

 

[Megs]

I'm thinking over the idea of removing improper authentications - on one hand I can see how it would be helpful to be able to flag a post so we can remove it and send a friendly reminder. On the other, when people are sent reminders, I think everyone feels really like they are being reprimanded (as some of you have said in this thread). Even when what we are saying is 'hey, this doesn't belong here, this doesn't work here, please follow the rules', it can really come off much harsher than we mean for it to.

We still want to have a form built out for you all so people need to fill it in to submit an AT, but that will take time. We are talking to developers about it, but this is not an easy task.

Right now, please do report anything going awry in your AT threads and we will handle it as we see fit. I think many can see that we've been on top of handling these reports

 

[Prada Psycho]

Right now, please do report anything going awry in your AT threads and we will handle it as we see fit. I think many can see that we've been on top of handling these reports

Took care of one at my request yesterday in very short order! Not sure who exactly handled it, but it was handled. That tells me we're being heard and I for one, appreciate that.

 

[Megs]

Took care of one at my request yesterday in very short order! Not sure who exactly handled it, but it was handled. That tells me we're being heard and I for one, appreciate that.

Yes!!

 

[devik]

As with all the suggestions there's a possible downside to the idea of removing improper AT requests. For the (seeming minority!) of new people who DO read the thread before posting, seeing an improper request that's been replied to in the thread might help to educate them. If those posts are just removed then it could increase the incidence of the improper ones, no? And end up creating more work for those who are trying to do the clean-up task.

Also, if someone's request is removed as improper, what's to stop them from posting again - improperly? If the thread doesn't have the recent history from that person then we won't be able to notice the bumping behavior as easily.

Dunno, I don't think it will help that much.

On a related topic: I'm also wondering if those non-authenticating members who are helping in the busy threads like Chanel and LV, by responding to the improper posts with corrections and guidance, might actually be creating MORE WORK for the authenticators? Because now, the authenticator has to not only review the new posts made in the thread since the last time she visited, but also she has to see if someone else responded already. Does that actually help or not?

Can any authenticators in this situation reply to this?

(ETA: By "those non-authenticating members" - I mean me! I'm trying to help this way in a few threads and that's why I'm asking the question.)

 

[ThisVNchick]

I think that as long as the note is being sent with a friendly tone, people shouldn't take it the wrong way.

"Welcome and thank you for taking an interest in TPF! To better help the authenticators and Authenticate This thread run more smoothly, we kindly ask that you repost your request in the following format:
Title
Item Number (if appropriate)
Seller:
Link: "

I would hope that no one would take that message the wrong way. And also hoping that if we spell it out and have the forms presented in their faces, all they have to do is cut, paste and repost.

 

[ThisVNchick]

I really like that idea.

The only thing to consider is that not every AT has active mods, meaning like those who check in every day or every other day. Some AT's really don't have mods at all (I think there are a couple that have a mod assigned to them by default, but not a mod who authenticates, if that makes sense), only long time authenticators.

I didn't know that if you flag a post, say in LV, a LV mod has to look and approve it. I thought it just goes to a mod universe and whoever comes along, picks it up, and solves the issue.

 

[Nikki_]

I think that as long as the note is being sent with a friendly tone, people shouldn't take it the wrong way.

"Welcome and thank you for taking an interest in TPF! To better help the authenticators and Authenticate This thread run more smoothly, we kindly ask that you repost your request in the following format:
Title
Item Number (if appropriate)
Seller:
Link: "

I would hope that no one would take that message the wrong way. And also hoping that if we spell it out and have the forms presented in their faces, all they have to do is cut, paste and repost.

Actually, that sounds perfect.

 

[Jennie's Aunt]

I have been suggesting this for awhile, excepting in my suggestion, flagging can be done by anyone but reasoning must be provided. I think it is efficient because currently some of us at ATLV sometimes "try to help out" and indicate to the poster's they need to read post #1. Some of helpers (not me in general) will even let the poster know what is wrong. (I don't in general because there are other useful information in page 1 and I think anyone asking for FREE help should at least go and read post 1.) There are several problems with our attempt:
Many posters don't come back or respond and their incorrect post is still there. Even if they do respond, they do so in a new post so the incorrect post again is still there. Very seldomly do I actually see someone respond and then go edit their original post. So by the time authenticators go the thread and continues the authentication, most of the time, the incorrect post is still there. They can't possibly know that someone has already quoted and alert that poster.

I want to add why I think anyone can flag incorrect post. Take ATLV for example, if the post is not in the correct format, especially with no sale link, an authenticator can skip that quickly but if a post has a sale link but that link only provides 2 pictures or blurry pictures then the authenticator obviously can't authenticate base on them and he/she has just wasted time clicking on the link and looking. If the community can collective help out to weed those out for the authenticators, it won't be that much work at all.

One problem with the person editing their post - there is a time limit for editing the post and then the edit option is taken away. Maybe that option can stay available longer?

 

[Megs]

I am not sure how feasible some of these ideas are from varying ends...

Allowing longer to edit a post would make that a forum wide rule which we would not want to have happen. Deleting anything that is posted wrong is still going to make things super dicey and I don't know that we will do this. Different AT threads are run a bit differently, so keeping track of what is done wrong, when to delete, could be an issue. Plus remember some authenticators will authenticate with pieces from post 1 missing, so then I could theoretically delete a post that someone authenticated causing even more confusion.

There clearly needs to be a new way, and that is what we are working on! Just wanted to answer some of these to let you know ideas aren't being ignored!

 

[BeenBurned]

One problem with the person editing their post - there is a time limit for editing the post and then the edit option is taken away. Maybe that option can stay available longer?

I can foresee huge problems with extending the window in which to edit.

Even with the current timeframe, I've responded to a post only to go back and see that the OP edited her post to which I replied. Often, that edit she made invalidates or at least changes what my response would be so now, I have to go back and edit my response.

 

[Megs]

I can foresee huge problems with extending the window in which to edit.

Even with the current timeframe, I've responded to a post only to go back and see that the OP edited her post to which I replied. Often, that edit she made invalidates or at least changes what my response would be so now, I have to go back and edit my response.

Which is why we have the edit time very low on that.

 

[deacc]

I am not sure how feasible some of these ideas are from varying ends...

Allowing longer to edit a post would make that a forum wide rule which we would not want to have happen. Deleting anything that is posted wrong is still going to make things super dicey and I don't know that we will do this. Different AT threads are run a bit differently, so keeping track of what is done wrong, when to delete, could be an issue. Plus remember some authenticators will authenticate with pieces from post 1 missing, so then I could theoretically delete a post that someone authenticated causing even more confusion.

There clearly needs to be a new way, and that is what we are working on! Just wanted to answer some of these to let you know ideas aren't being ignored!

I didn't want to do too many quotes so I will just quote this one and make some observation.

1. I forgot about the edit time limit, I don't think allowing a longer edit period is a good idea either.

2. With regards to deleting. I think some steps can be taken to prevent error. First I think the mods and authenticators of each brand should discuss what should be the standard and adhere to it. If one authenticator actually don't mind authenticating with certain pieces missing. Then leave those requirements out. The authenticator that is willing to authenticate can authenticate those. i.e. the post 1 requirement should be something agreed upon by all the authenticators of a particular brand.
Also, from previous experience as a mod and later admin of a forum years ago, when we delete post we don't actually delete them. What we do instead is move that post into a thread where only mods/admin can see. This way we still have the post but it is no longer visible by regular members.

3. About a AT form. This is a good idea but it can be tricky. One of the most common missing components in ATLV is a sale link (which is a requirement). So the form must only accept the posting if a link is filled it vs text. Another common missing components are required pics. (be it missing pics or the pics are blurry). I think there should be something in the form that ask the question "Do your request contains enough clear pics to allow the authenticators to make an authentication?" Please see post 1,with a link provided. for minimum requirement. The default is no, so the poster will have to click yes. One also needs to allow the poster to add additional pics.

4. And finally another common problem in ATLV is when a poster is responding to an authenticators request for additional pics (usually upon receiving the item). The rule is that you should quote your original post (or provide a link), the authenticator's response to your original post and then the requested additional post. This way the authenticators can have everything together and review without having to waste time to back track. I am not sure how picky authenticators are on this point.