Taylor Swift

[Jayne1]

I think a significant difference between the punk fans of yore (or even today) and Swifties is that punk fans tend to take pride in being subversive. When people tell punk fans they don't care for punk music, they tend to wear it as a badge of honor - they've found something to love that everyone doesn't appreciate. On the other hand, Swifties tend to react to finding out someone doesn't like her music as a personal attack - as if my not sharing their music taste somehow implies I don't think they can/should like it.
As far as danger goes -- she's got ex boyfriends who have received death threats. Fortunately, they have not been carried out. But when a swarm of fans decides that a man is an enemy because he no longer dates Taylor, it's kind of creepy or scary.

Yes, fans of old didn't identify so much with their idol. They idolized them, certainly, but they weren't as obsessive and compulsive as they are now.

Now, they think they know their idol, they think their idol cares about them on a personal level - these fans are overly involved and attached and some even think they are going through similar situations such as a boyfriend breakup when in reality these fans have almost nothing in common with the person they worship.

 

[Midge Maisel]

Yes, fans of old didn't identify so much with their idol. They idolized them, certainly, but they weren't as obsessive and compulsive as they are now.

Now, they think they know their idol, they think their idol cares about them on a personal level - these fans are overly involved and attached and some even think they are going through similar situations such as a boyfriend breakup when in reality these fans have almost nothing in common with the person they worship.

One of the things that I think a lot of Swifties loved back in the day was that Taylor was just like them. She was a high schooler who dealt with crushes, bullying, and growing up...while also being a talented songwriter who was suddenly attending celebrity events, making media appearances, and ascending ever higher. Who wouldn't identify with that?

Fast forward a decade and a half and Taylor is a 34-year-old billionaire who's smashed every record, won every award, performed for the biggest crowds, and lived a life that almost no one else ever could. But people still act like she's a 16-year-old with a guitar who's just like them. That ability to somehow be totally relatable to her audience despite being about as unrelatable as humanly possible is truly her greatest talent.

 

[LibbyRuth]

One of the things that I think a lot of Swifties loved back in the day was that Taylor was just like them. She was a high schooler who dealt with crushes, bullying, and growing up...while also being a talented songwriter who was suddenly attending celebrity events, making media appearances, and ascending ever higher. Who wouldn't identify with that?

Fast forward a decade and a half and Taylor is a 34-year-old billionaire who's smashed every record, won every award, performed for the biggest crowds, and lived a life that almost no one else ever could. But people still act like she's a 16-year-old with a guitar who's just like them. That ability to somehow be totally relatable to her audience despite being about as unrelatable as humanly possible is truly her greatest talent.

I see where you're coming from, but that's a large part of the problem in my book. It's normal for 16 year old girls to believe their identity comes from the approval of a boy. There are a lot of parents and mentors who work hard to teach those 16 year old girls that their worth comes from far more important things. Then, along comes this 34 year old woman pushing and encouraging the notion that their identity comes from the approval of boys.

I can think of a lot of artists who came up as teenagers singing about things that teens cared about, whose music evolved as they grew. Taylor and Beyonce get compared a lot - one of the many things that Beyonce's self titled album so amazing was that Beyonce showed through her music that she was a grown woman who had grown feelings about her husband and knew it was okay to express them. Move on to Renaissance and she had evolved into telling the world that she saw the problems we faced and had something to say about them. All the while, Taylor has been stuck in the mind of a 16 year old girl. It's not impressive artistry, nor is it impressive in setting an example. It makes her a lot of money. That's it.

 

[bag-mania]

She’s a pop star. The kind of songs she does fit that genre perfectly. Most popular songs aren’t particularly deep. Her fans want to be entertained by catchy tunes and she delivers. Some of her songs lean more towards country and her recurring “breakup” theme fits those well.

 

[Midge Maisel]

I see where you're coming from, but that's a large part of the problem in my book. It's normal for 16 year old girls to believe their identity comes from the approval of a boy. There are a lot of parents and mentors who work hard to teach those 16 year old girls that their worth comes from far more important things. Then, along comes this 34 year old woman pushing and encouraging the notion that their identity comes from the approval of boys.

I can think of a lot of artists who came up as teenagers singing about things that teens cared about, whose music evolved as they grew. Taylor and Beyonce get compared a lot - one of the many things that Beyonce's self titled album so amazing was that Beyonce showed through her music that she was a grown woman who had grown feelings about her husband and knew it was okay to express them. Move on to Renaissance and she had evolved into telling the world that she saw the problems we faced and had something to say about them. All the while, Taylor has been stuck in the mind of a 16 year old girl. It's not impressive artistry, nor is it impressive in setting an example. It makes her a lot of money. That's it.

That's kind of what I meant. Despite the fact that her peers have grown up and evolved, she hasn't, and yet they still see her as one of them. It's mind-boggling.

 

[A1aGypsy]

It’s a really interesting discussion.

I mean, I don’t agree that she hasn’t evolved. When I first saw her, she opened for Kelly Pickler who opened for, I think it was Jack Ingram, who opened for Brad Paisley. And she was this little 16 yr old in an eyelet dress and cowboy boots stomping around the stage. She has changed a lot since then and moved into the pop and dance realm. Her look (personally and videos) is much more slick and produced and no longer country. And her sound has changed from acoustic to very produced. So, she has gone through a real metamorphosis.

However, she didn’t go through much of a ‘sexual awakening’ stage like a lot of female singers seem to do and the focus of her songs still seems stuck on revenge and unrequited love. She also seems to struggle between very well spoken and passionate about a woman’s autonomy and their right to be ‘unpleasant’ or disruptive or to have strong opinions and then the opposite young, wide eyed, “oh my god, this is the very best thing ever” routine.

I wonder how much of a responsibility she feels to her fan base of young girls. When Miley Cyrus went through her period of change, there was a lot of backlash. Even Swift drinking at the Super Bowl was a pearl clutching experience on the internet. And I imagine that can be really restrictive for an artist. Or, for a female artist. You don’t see the same thing happening with men. She reminds me of Kristin Dunst’s character in Interview with a Vampire, in a way.

Anyway, I like some of her older songs but I find now (as with most artists) a lot of them just sound the same. I think she is really talented with a turn of phrase as a song writer and I often prefer the stuff she has written for other people. Her career and trajectory is fascinating though.

 

[bag-mania]

I’ll say upfront I can only name about five of her songs so I’m by no means a Taylor expert. However, you cannot argue with success. She’s been a star for over 15 years in a business that usually chews up its stars and spits them out within half that amount of time. That isn’t an accident. Some of you are saying she hasn’t grown and perhaps that’s true. What exactly is wrong with that? She hit upon a formula that works extremely well and she is arguably the best currently doing it. Some artists “grow” into something that no one likes or wants to buy and then their careers inevitably stall. If the public doesn’t like your new stuff, you’re done. That is the inevitable fate for all but a very few artists. Her music is simple for the most part but is raking in tens of millions while she is marketable. That shows excellent business sense, which is its own kind of growth.

 

[LibbyRuth]

I’ll say upfront I can only name about five of her songs so I’m by no means a Taylor expert. However, you cannot argue with success. She’s been a star for over 15 years in a business that usually chews up its stars and spits them out within half that amount of time. That isn’t an accident. Some of you are saying she hasn’t grown and perhaps that’s true. What exactly is wrong with that? She hit upon a formula that works extremely well and she is arguably the best currently doing it. Some artists “grow” into something that no one likes or wants to buy and then their careers inevitably stall. If the public doesn’t like your new stuff, you’re done. That is the inevitable fate for all but a very few artists. Her music is simple for the most part but is raking in tens of millions while she is marketable. That shows excellent business sense, which is its own kind of growth.

In my book, it's the difference between an artist and a commodity. There are actors who put out the same darn movie year in and year out with a different title, and audiences still show up. There are authors who change the title and character names but give the same plot line over and over again, and readers still buy them. Heck, there are painters who have other people paint their paintings, come in to do a couple of brush strokes and sign them, and call themselves artists who sell a ton of work. And there are singers who put out the same album and concert tour over and over again with different words, and make a ton of money.
Likewise, there are people who look to music as a nice thing to have in the background, and there are people who are moved by music and the expression it brings. The praise heaped on Taylor is that of a commodity. I'd venture to guess that many of her most devoted fans see music as a background or way to mark time. And I think that most who criticize her are looking for art in music.
More people buy tickets to Marvel movies than to Oscar winning movies that challenge people to look differently at life. There's a place in the world for both. But the Marvel fans rarely get excited about the Oscars, and the people who frequent small art house cinemas and have seen all the Oscar contenders rarely show up opening weekend for Marvel movies. Taylor Swift is the Marvel of music.

 

[bag-mania]

Taylor Swift is the Marvel of music.

I agree and there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s like musical fast food. It satisfies a need and doesn’t pretend to be something it’s not. There are other performers who are far more complex but they also come off as being pretentious, judgmental, and preachy. For many, music is entertainment and they don’t need or want to think about it beyond it being a catchy tune.

 

[A1aGypsy]

I think she knows what people will buy from her and what they won’t. And that’s why she writes so many songs for other people and also writes under pseudonyms. So her stardom doesn’t eclipse a particular song or because it will not feel authentic coming from her (such as a song about the death of a long marriage for example).

I’m not sure it is fair to say that her fans use her music as background. They seem extremely invested in the content of her songs and it speaks to them. It just might be content that you might not find stimulating. And that’s ok.

Again, it’s a really interesting thing. Can you be an artist and maintain a mainstream persona? Seems she has divided those two worlds in her efforts.

 

[TC1]

Just read on TMZ that Travis is on a private jet to go see her in Australia.
More concert PDA incoming

 

[LibbyRuth]

I think she knows what people will buy from her and what they won’t. And that’s why she writes so many songs for other people and also writes under pseudonyms. So her stardom doesn’t eclipse a particular song or because it will not feel authentic coming from her (such as a song about the death of a long marriage for example).

I’m not sure it is fair to say that her fans use her music as background. They seem extremely invested in the content of her songs and it speaks to them. It just might be content that you might not find stimulating. And that’s ok.

Again, it’s a really interesting thing. Can you be an artist and maintain a mainstream persona? Seems she has divided those two worlds in her efforts.

Yes, I think you can be an artist and maintain a mainstream persona. I think that Pink and Cate Blanchett are examples of that. But I'm scratching my head at the artistry of Taylor Swift. She's being defended as not evolving by pointing to sales - not artistry.

 

[lallybelle]

The girl literally writes, plays, produces all of her music. Yes she has collaborators at times. Think Max Martin for 1989, and for a while now Jack Antonoff. She actually did Speak Now COMPETELY herself at 18 -19. You may not care for her music or like her personality but do not say they girl is not an artist.

 

[LibbyRuth]

The girl literally writes, plays, produces all of her music. Yes she has collaborators at times. Think Max Martin for 1989, and for a while now Jack Antonoff. She actually did Speak Now COMPETELY herself at 18 -19. You may not care for her music or like her personality but do not say they girl is not an artist.

Artists evolve and have something to say. She's a commodity.

 

[A1aGypsy]

Yes, I think you can be an artist and maintain a mainstream persona. I think that Pink and Cate Blanchett are examples of that. But I'm scratching my head at the artistry of Taylor Swift. She's being defended as not evolving by pointing to sales - not artistry.

Edited because I didn’t see your response. I think it is an interesting discussion that is difficult to have when someone already has a strident view.