Style Forum member's H experience...
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:tpfrox: good posts everyone - the discussion has kept me entertained all evening especially since the original post read like a comedy sketch :lolots: I don't know about anyone else but the transcript of the conversation in-store reminded me of the Little Britain sketches where "Computer Says No" (link below to one such example). Tomorrow I'm going to stalk out the SF version of this thread to see how the banter is over there 
On a more serious note, I agree with many other posters that customer service cannot be bought - a good experience in-store should be a priority to every brand whether high-end or low-budget in my opinion. Although the outcome to Mr Foo was good in the end (a suitable wallet was obtained), I agree with one of his posts that a good SA would have taken the time to show him the options and a dialogue would have been started between them from which he could have made an informed decision about his intended purchase. I also thought it was interesting that he admitted that he may have come away with something different than what he originally had in mind if that dialogue had occured properly. In the past I have made countless purchases totally different from what I went into the store to obtain so I can totally relate to his comment!
Clint - your questions are always welcome at tPF! I'm also a bit of a newbie and appreciate someone else questioning the price-point of Birkins and Kellys. For me, these bags are something to aspire to as ownership of one would be the result of much hard work and lots of saving. I would only be able to afford one after reaching several career goals and so buying one would be a reward for the hard work it took to get to that point in my life. I hope that makes sense? I don't care about anyone else's perception of my status but, honestly, I would personally know I had "made it" if I had the savings to acquire one. The reason I want one of these particular designs is that I love their style. They are so very classic and timeless that they aren't ever going to look dated. They will also always go with my taste in clothes which is why I would pay Hermes to have one and would never knowingly obtain a Birkin-stlye bag or a Kelly-style bag because that's not supporting the original designers or the skilled craftspeople who make them. I hope my opinions helped answer your questions and contributed to the discussion
Eagerly awaiting Mr Icky's next comments
Here's the link to the sketch if anyone's interested and there are many others on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmr6Ius17ag&feature=related
On a more serious note, I agree with many other posters that customer service cannot be bought - a good experience in-store should be a priority to every brand whether high-end or low-budget in my opinion. Although the outcome to Mr Foo was good in the end (a suitable wallet was obtained), I agree with one of his posts that a good SA would have taken the time to show him the options and a dialogue would have been started between them from which he could have made an informed decision about his intended purchase. I also thought it was interesting that he admitted that he may have come away with something different than what he originally had in mind if that dialogue had occured properly. In the past I have made countless purchases totally different from what I went into the store to obtain so I can totally relate to his comment!
Clint - your questions are always welcome at tPF! I'm also a bit of a newbie and appreciate someone else questioning the price-point of Birkins and Kellys. For me, these bags are something to aspire to as ownership of one would be the result of much hard work and lots of saving. I would only be able to afford one after reaching several career goals and so buying one would be a reward for the hard work it took to get to that point in my life. I hope that makes sense? I don't care about anyone else's perception of my status but, honestly, I would personally know I had "made it" if I had the savings to acquire one. The reason I want one of these particular designs is that I love their style. They are so very classic and timeless that they aren't ever going to look dated. They will also always go with my taste in clothes which is why I would pay Hermes to have one and would never knowingly obtain a Birkin-stlye bag or a Kelly-style bag because that's not supporting the original designers or the skilled craftspeople who make them. I hope my opinions helped answer your questions and contributed to the discussion
Eagerly awaiting Mr Icky's next comments
Here's the link to the sketch if anyone's interested and there are many others on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmr6Ius17ag&feature=related
When I read his first post in text form when the link to his post was shared, the SA just seemed really annoying and gave bad service. Listening to this entire clip just really showed how bad it was. There's a vibe that suggests the SA was trying to get mafoofan to go away as she didn't want to serve him. I'm glad he managed to get what he wanted in the end. Shows that preserverance works against this treatment eh? I would have given up and gone away like what the SA wanted. Next time I shall try this method.
mafoofan, Regardless of her motivation, what counts is how she projected herself, and how you interpreted it. You, as the customer, exhibited far more patience than I would have had! I am very glad that the outcome will be that you will get your wallet, and maybe the SA learned something about how NOT to act.
Agreed. There was a better way to handle the situation, and I disagree vehemently with those who believe a customer should attain an encyclopedic knowledge of Hermes's product before expecting a satisfying in-store experience. After all, I made it very clear to the SA that I was open to whatever options they had available. It mattered not whether they have a color specifically called "Dark Green" or whether their proprietary name for grain-embossed leather is "pebble-grain."
However, attitude makes a huge difference. The first SA we dealt with (in the main store) certainly did make us feel like she did not want our business. Her tone was hostile and dismissive. In contrast, the SA at the men's store seemed eager and enthusiastic. She was also very polite in manner. That's why we were patient in working with her.
Forgive my ignorance as I am somewhat new to Hermes. I was under the impression that Special Orders are limited per store and are often used for the very best customers. When I have inquired about SLG's, such as the Dogon wallet I recently purchased, the SA looked in the system and offered me all of the colors that were available in H stores in the US. There were several colors from which to choose, but not the Blue Jean I really wanted. I settled (happily) on Orange, which I received within a week in the mail. Shouldn't the SA have done a search for the "breast wallet" in the computer system? Why would Mafoofan need a Special Order or be allowed to use one for an $800 item? I know I sound obtuse and I hope I am not sounding like I'm belittling his purchase, but I thought there were only a tiny amount of S.O.'s available. I agree that the SA was unclear and did not seem able to help, but I would never have thought to demand a Special Order $1450 Dogon Blue Jean wallet and I have a small relationship with Hermes and am in their system with a small, but decent sales history. That said, I would not want to use a SO on a wallet, when there are so many other goodies. I am just curious and kind of mystified. I did lurk on SF and it does seem that Mafoofan is able to get just what he desires through persistence and his brand of networking, which has earned him simultaneous praise and ribbing.
The guys at SF know which tailors and artisans I use. I don't think any of them would say I've gotten what I've wanted through networking, whatever else they might say about me.
There is a simple explanation for why I did not hesitate to ask about a special order in a matter-of-fact manner and why many here seem to think I was either extremely arrogant or naive to do so: I am used to buying from shops where custom items are a regular matter of business and Hermes has marketed itself (and very emphatically its men's stores) as suited toward bespoke service. In contrast, I suppose that the vast majority of the products discussed on this forum are off-the-rack, typically sourced from a fashion designer.
The problem is that Hermes wants to be both: a storied atelier at the top of its craft, and a prestigious fashion house at the top of its industry. Evidently, this model has problems. It is exceedingly difficult to maintain the regularity in design neccessary to bolster a brand name while providing quality bespoke service to customers who just want the best wallet or purse or briefcase possible.
There is a simple explanation for why I did not hesitate to ask about a special order in a matter-of-fact manner and why many here seem to think I was either extremely arrogant or naive to do so: I am used to buying from shops where custom items are a regular matter of business and Hermes has marketed itself (and very emphatically its men's stores) as suited toward bespoke service. In contrast, I suppose that the vast majority of the products discussed on this forum are off-the-rack, typically sourced from a fashion designer.
The problem is that Hermes wants to be both: a storied atelier at the top of its craft, and a prestigious fashion house at the top of its industry. Evidently, this model has problems. It is exceedingly difficult to maintain the regularity in design neccessary to bolster a brand name while providing quality bespoke service to customers who just want the best wallet or purse or briefcase possible.
Hermes wants to have it both ways. Mass global sales and the appearance of an atelier style workshop where every belt, wallet and bag is hand stitched.
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Bespoke items are encouraged at Hermes, but only for a select number of clients willing to spend enough money to gain this VIP status.
For it's one and only Men's store, I think Hermes is projecting more of a bespoke image, but mostly for shirts and suits. I think the jury is still out as to whether or not they will develop a full blown men's bespoke leather goods system.
Something else to keep in mind is that Hermes does not require a deposit for SO items, which means that effectively you are ordering something for the store's inventory and you can just disappear or turn it down when it arrives and they are stuck with it. This is in part why they are reluctant to offer SOs to newer clients.
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Bespoke items are encouraged at Hermes, but only for a select number of clients willing to spend enough money to gain this VIP status.
For it's one and only Men's store, I think Hermes is projecting more of a bespoke image, but mostly for shirts and suits. I think the jury is still out as to whether or not they will develop a full blown men's bespoke leather goods system.
Something else to keep in mind is that Hermes does not require a deposit for SO items, which means that effectively you are ordering something for the store's inventory and you can just disappear or turn it down when it arrives and they are stuck with it. This is in part why they are reluctant to offer SOs to newer clients.
If this fully characterized the problem, there is a very easy fix.
However, I think the truth is that Hermes leather good production is probably a lot more factory/assembly-line oriented and less workshop-like than many would like to believe. It must be in order to service their hundreds of retail points.
I think some but not all.
A few weeks ago I was talking to a friend about how the all-leather version of that bag above is "cheap" in Hermes terms. For a 50 cm, all-leather bag, it's "only" $4,400, while the same size in a Birkin or HAC or Kelly runs for about $11,000 or more.
My friend and I suspected that it's because it's not hand-stitched. Looking at that picture, we may be right. Hermès does this a lot. Probably to attract new customers so that they have an "entry level" bag.
And if you've been to a lot of Hermès stores, you'll notice that their leather goods occupy just a tiny inventory of the store. In most of the stores I've been to, the bulk of the merchandise is in the home stuff, then RTW, then silks/cashmeres, then leather. A tiny nook is usually allocated to fragrances. In other words, Hermès may be known for their handcrafted leather goods, but it's not the only thing they sell, and they don't even sell that much of it.
Oh and some time ago, we have a member here who was an SA at the Hermès mothership in Paris. I think she was the one who attended an Hermès SA conference of some sort, wherein they tried make some small leather goods with the help of a craftsman. She said that it only takes an hour or less for a craftsman to make a wallet.
I wish I could show you the video of the Pantin workshop but the people who uploaded it decided to make it private.
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I think some but not all.
A few weeks ago I was talking to a friend about how the all-leather version of that bag above is "cheap" in Hermes terms. For a 50 cm, all-leather bag, it's "only" $4,400, while the same size in a Birkin or HAC or Kelly runs for about $11,000 or more.
My friend and I suspected that it's because it's not hand-stitched. Looking at that picture, we may be right. Hermès does this a lot. Probably to attract new customers so that they have an "entry level" bag.
And if you've been to a lot of Hermès stores, you'll notice that their leather goods occupy just a tiny inventory of the store. In most of the stores I've been to, the bulk of the merchandise is in the home stuff, then RTW, then silks/cashmeres, then leather. A tiny nook is usually allocated to fragrances. In other words, Hermès may be known for their handcrafted leather goods, but it's not the only thing they sell, and they don't even sell that much of it.
Oh and some time ago, we have a member here who was an SA at the Hermès mothership in Paris. I think she was the one who attended an Hermès SA conference of some sort, wherein they tried make some small leather goods with the help of a craftsman. She said that it only takes an hour or less for a craftsman to make a wallet.
I wish I could show you the video of the Pantin workshop but the people who uploaded it decided to make it private.
Ahh..^^^^ This is what I am talking about. Excellent contribution allanrvj!!!Supported by a fact... Keep it up.
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My understanding is that presently leather goods account for 30% of total business.
This is from the 2005 Hermes Annual Report showing 2004 figures:
2004 sales by business sector: 40% bags and luggage, 21% clothings and accessories, 11% silk products, 7% watches, 5% perfumes, 3% tableware, 3% other products (textiles, John Lobb shoes, Gordon-Choisy tanneries), 10% other sectors (jewellery, diaries, small leather good, art of living)
This is from the 2005 Hermes Annual Report showing 2004 figures:
2004 sales by business sector: 40% bags and luggage, 21% clothings and accessories, 11% silk products, 7% watches, 5% perfumes, 3% tableware, 3% other products (textiles, John Lobb shoes, Gordon-Choisy tanneries), 10% other sectors (jewellery, diaries, small leather good, art of living)