So I'm a...

[CoachCruiser]

...feminist. There it is, that big, bulky, uncomfortable word that women either embrace or -- more likely - shrivel from. I don't hate men. I love fashion. I'm a teacher.

When I think about why I love designers and fashion, I think of the history, the craftsmanship, the luxury attached to such names, never mind the customer service you receive from the shopkeepers and the friendships you may establish with other women (or men) -- but I was also wondering....

....at what point does being a lover of fashion (in my case, handbags) reduce us as a women? I use the word "reduce" loosely. How do your draw the line between "collector" and "hoarder"?

I'm starting to more seriously think about the number of bags that I have in my collection. I miss the days when I used to wear a new fall bag ALL throughout the fall, and then a spring bag in the spring, and a purse or two to take out at night. Now, the amount and variety that I own are ridiculous. I don't NEED a purse. They are not "investments" when you honestly think about it -- those are JUSTIFICATIONS. I read a long time ago that fashion was an industry created simply to keep women concentrated upon their appearances and less so on advocating themselves in the business world, etc. I wonder sometimes what I could do with the time I spend worrying how I appear to others and myself.

I'm looking forward to what kind of discussion this creates. Thanks in advance for your thoughts. Kindly worded criticism is welcome!

 

[Mariapia]

I don't know about the USA or Asia, but I can tell you that , in Europe, young men are as interested in fashion as women , now!!![emoji8][emoji8]

 

[jaws3]

Agree to post above. My son is 18. He is far from feminine. He takes a lot of thought when he purchases shoes, hats, and clothes. I think with all the media, it is not only the females who spend their time thinking about fashion.

 

[jaws3]

Agree to post above. My son is 18. He is far from feminine. He takes a lot of thought when he purchases shoes, hats, and clothes. I think with all the media, it is not only the females who spend their time thinking about fashion. Oh--we live in the U.S.

 

[CoachCruiser]

I don't know about the USA or Asia, but I can tell you that , in Europe, young men are as interested in fashion as women , now!!![emoji8][emoji8]

That's interesting, mariapia. Many here are more trend-followers rather than interested in envisioning differerent looks, etc. Most men at this point are almost more likely at 40 to dress as they did when they were 19, simply because it feels comfortable, there's little effort involved....if men are going to alter their look, it usually is due to a woman buying clothing for them. This is an observation from my husband. Of course, I'm speaking for the predominant amount of heterosexual men.

 

[CoachCruiser]

Agree to post above. My son is 18. He is far from feminine. He takes a lot of thought when he purchases shoes, hats, and clothes. I think with all the media, it is not only the females who spend their time thinking about fashion. Oh--we live in the U.S.

I think it's because men from California tend to have a more European sensibility to fashion (I mean this as a compliment).

 

[Mariapia]

That's interesting, mariapia. Many here are more trend-followers rather than interested in envisioning differerent looks, etc. Most men at this point are almost more likely at 40 to dress as they did when they were 19, simply because it feels comfortable, there's little effort involved....if men are going to alter their look, it usually is due to a woman buying clothing for them. This is an observation from my husband. Of course, I'm speaking for the predominant amount of heterosexual men.

No, no, Coach Cruiser, the young men I know go shopping alone and choose their own clothes! [emoji106]

 

[CoachCruiser]

That's it? Forgive me, but nobody else has a second to weigh in politely on these issues?

 

[Mariapia]

That's it? Forgive me, but nobody else has a second to weigh in politely on these issues?

I have lady friends who are not interested in fashion at all. They are not necessarily feminists, They buy a bag to carry their stuff, have only two or three pairs of shoes, and go shopping when they have to buy new clothes because they have put on or lost weight.
They prefer to spend their money on something else, travels, books or their kids.
It does not mean we, who like to be well dressed, are superficial or victims of fashion marketing because we are women....
Simone de Beauvoir who was a French feminist was always perfectly dressed.
She used to say that frivolity is a violent state ....
Frivolity is a discipline...
It's important, whether you are a man or a woman, to be at your best whatever happens in your lives.
It helps, believe me...

 

[mkpurselover]

As an older TPF member, I have clear memory of being all but "patted on the head or behind" by male work colleagues 40+ years ago and reminded of my place at work.

In these more modern time, I think in a positive way that many women who enjoy fashion also find ways to use their interest to make their own financial gains. Now women can start their own businesses, create blogs, design fashion and enjoy what they do without feeling held back in male dominated businesses. We can enjoy being fashionable and feminist at the same time.

I feel, in truth we as women worry way too much about how men perceive us. Be strong, do what you want to do, and men will always be interested and some will be willing to work with you. I'm not saying they will necessarily respect you, as they really are not programmed for this, but again we needn't worry about this, we just need to respect ourselves.

 

[lenarmc]

Feminism, at least for me, is more about choice. Clothes, shoes, bags, jewelry, et cetera are just fun, but I've never considered them as barriers to my success in life. It's not like I'm calling in sick to work to catch a Macy's early bird special. I'm really confused as how loving fashion diminishes me as a woman. Loving clothes and taking care of how I present my self to the world doesn't take away from my intelligence or accomplishments in life.

I'm a teacher, and I LOVE being in the classroom. I have zero desire to be in administration by CHOICE not because I like to wear a dress as opposed to jeans and a shirt. I enjoy being hands on with the students. I don't have any desire to deal with things like budgets, hiring, appraisals, and the like. I also prefer to be with my kids during the summer and to be at home when they are at home. I like to cook for my family everyday.

None of my choices have anything to do with fashion because I do not let things control me. To me, that is the difference between a hoarder and a collector-letting "things" control you and aspects of your life. Not being able to let go. I'm in the process now of purging sunglasses, jeans, shoes, and handbags so I keep that in mind.

I'm not even sure if this addresses the topic. I think that so-called modern feminists forget the basis of feminism. It's okay to look badass and pulled together and be badass in your chosen career I guess that's what I'm saying. I just have difficulty equating being a woman with my career. Being a woman is more than that.

Of course, I could also be taking this topic way too seriously!

 

[Fimpagebag]

...feminist. There it is, that big, bulky, uncomfortable word that women either embrace or -- more likely - shrivel from. I don't hate men. I love fashion. I'm a teacher.

When I think about why I love designers and fashion, I think of the history, the craftsmanship, the luxury attached to such names, never mind the customer service you receive from the shopkeepers and the friendships you may establish with other women (or men) -- but I was also wondering....

....at what point does being a lover of fashion (in my case, handbags) reduce us as a women? I use the word "reduce" loosely. How do your draw the line between "collector" and "hoarder"?

I'm starting to more seriously think about the number of bags that I have in my collection. I miss the days when I used to wear a new fall bag ALL throughout the fall, and then a spring bag in the spring, and a purse or two to take out at night. Now, the amount and variety that I own are ridiculous. I don't NEED a purse. They are not "investments" when you honestly think about it -- those are JUSTIFICATIONS. I read a long time ago that fashion was an industry created simply to keep women concentrated upon their appearances and less so on advocating themselves in the business world, etc. I wonder sometimes what I could do with the time I spend worrying how I appear to others and myself.

I'm looking forward to what kind of discussion this creates. Thanks in advance for your thoughts. Kindly worded criticism is welcome!

Weighing in with my own peculiar view. I am defined by my own criteria. I love bags, boots, and books. Fashion has never dictated what I wear or how I wear it.

My view is ultimately quite simple. My identity is mine alone. If I allow others to affix labels then I have surrendered my individuality.

 

[applecidered]

A lot of men enjoy fashion as well, but it may not mean that they are feminists, e.g. fashion houses that only use size 00 models in ads.

For me, if a man looks sharp and wears well tailored suits and clothes, it really elevates how he looks. For many American men in particular, wearing oversized Adam Sandler-esque t-shirts or polos while going out it not what I consider very attractive. The US it is the only place I can think of where wearing athletic wear, baggy gym shorts, baseball caps, etc. is considered the norm. Not so much everywhere else. After all, comfort is key. Personally, I do not enjoy running errands wearing my work out clothing but a lot of men and women do.

Touching upon a broader subject, collecting or hoarding clothes, shoes, purses and other items are seen as negatives because that's typically what a woman enjoys. It's just a fact of life that anything remotely perceived as feminine is denigrated (e.g. the color pink). And that's the unfortunate reality we live in today. Let's say the reverse would be a man hoarding guitars, cars, guns, technology - those wouldn't be seen in the same light as shoes, but collecting/hoarding is still collecting/hoarding to me, regardless of item.

 

[soramillay]

I think true feminism at our current state of evolution is not about trying to be masculine and conforming to a man's world but embracing femininity AND the power of being female. I completely understand that the women breaking down doors and smashing through glass ceilings in the 60s through to the 90s had to act like men and be ball-breakers to get us where we are now, and I am extremely grateful.

But in my view, now we have a seat at the table, we need to lead from our true selves. Showing emotion and vulnerabiliy, for example, was a thing frowned upon in the past for women who sought power, and still is today. But do you ever think, what is wrong with emotion? There are times when leaders must be strong, and there are times leaders must be human.

We want CEOs and world leaders who are women in every sense, not women who have suppressed their instincts and values to get to the top. Frankly corporations would be kinder, more sustainable entities if they were run by mothers.

I also think feminism means respecting and honoring choices women make, such as whether to work or whether to stay home and raise kids, or to do both. And not make anyone feel bad for those choices.

So long spiel over, to get to the point, there is nothing wrong with being a feminist and loving fashion, loving material goods and beautiful things. Most of us dress and shop for ourselves, and not solely to please our S.O.s and that is the big difference. The rise of the fashion houses also has a lot to do with brilliant and driven women like Coco Chanel, Rosita Missoni, Miucca Prada etc.

And yes, boys are now growing up to appreciate the finer things in life too. My brother, for example, likes Desigual clothes, Swiss watches, and minimalist leather wallets. Not quite the same interests as me, but equally particular

 

[papertiger]

Good point. CoachCruiser but try not to be too hard on yourself. Being a handbag wearer/collector/hoarder and being a feminist are not mutually exclusive at least not in this era.

It sounds like there is something about buying and keeping handbags that reveals a concern, but it is a probably a symptom of a personal challenge rather than a betrayal of your feminist principles.

To get away from the 'dress-up doll' pressure of the mid and late 1960s the Second-wave feminists dressed down and wore no make-up. Now, unless someone is making a woman wear something she doesn't want to (and hence make her be something something she is not) then she has to follow her own wants and desires - and yes it is good to check it's not out of a desire to conform to the 'will' of some kind of desired female norm or commercial pressure.

By most people's standards I prob have far too many handbags (and shoes and 'you name it') but what I wear is part of the way I express myself, and since I am not one thing but many, often doing very different things (directing, dancing, martial arts, mountaineering, researching etc) I express myself as a person in a variety of roles and also in different ways, although these are always just the many facets of me. I have always been the same outfit obsessed person, since I was a toddler.

Hope this makes some kind of sense, it's late here