Serena Williams

[FreeSpirit71]

As a longtime tennis fan and someone whose family was actually involved in the tennis community at high levels here in Australia in the 70's and 80's, I can tell you that perception of McEnroe in the tennis community is not what I know to be true.

He brought the game into disrepute. New rules were brought in regarding code of conduct specifically due to his behaviour. Officials and many players couldn't stand him, let alone market him.

 

[BindiBabe]

Again, I'm referring to more recent outbursts by men. So let's try to address those specifically.

Can you cite those more recent outbursts by men, please? Were they No.1 or top ranked ranked players playing in a Grand Slam final? The fact is that some people are just more newsworthy than others. Some people are just more interesting than others. And some incidents are just more newsworthy than others. In this Grand Slam the eventual winner was booed - according to Martina Navratilova, unprecedented in a Grand Slam final, so this a story that will have legs.

Who will forget the 2006 World Cup Soccer final when Zinidine Zidane head butted his opponent, Materazzi. That story went on for ages. Like this one, it’s the kind of newsworthy incident that goes beyond the sport.

 

[berrydiva]

As a longtime tennis fan and someone whose family was actually involved in the tennis community at high levels here in Australia in the 70's and 80's, I can tell you that perception of McEnroe in the tennis community is not what I know to be true.

He brought the game into disrepute. New rules were brought in regarding code of conduct specifically due to his behaviour. Officials and many players couldn't stand him, let alone market him.

This is good to know and I do remember rules being implemented due to his behavior. I generally remember his celeb status here in the US glorifying his antics....he gained endorsements as some sort of "sexy bad boy of tennis".

 

[berrydiva]

Can you cite those more recent outbursts by men, please? Were they No.1 or top ranked ranked players playing in a Grand Slam final?

Found these:
https://www.firstpost.com/sports/th...-federer-got-away-with-outbursts-5162831.html

 

[Flatsy]

Found these:
https://www.firstpost.com/sports/th...-federer-got-away-with-outbursts-5162831.html

That's a great example of a totally misleading article full of omissions and half-truths. Not even half-truths, more like outright lies. Like this regarding Victor Troiki:

PUNISHMENT: He was fined £7,500, but docked no points during the game. For context, Williams was fined £13,100 for her behaviour in the 2018 US Open final.

Troiki received a code violation for verbal abuse, exactly the same as Serena did. It was his first violation and his punishment (a warning) was exactly the same as Serena's punishment for her first code violation. His fine for the verbal abuse was also exactly the same as Serena's fine for verbal abuse. Serena racked up more fines leading to a higher total because of her two other violations.

And each and every other example in the article is similarly full of lies/half-truths.

And you proved BindiBabe's point perfectly. Pretty much no top players and no Grand Slam finals on that list except for that one time Federer SPOKE to the umpire for a few seconds from his chair without even raising his voice and the rudest thing he said was, "Don't tell me to shut up." Not even remotely in the same category as what Serena did.

I'm less and less sympathetic to Serena the more I see people telling lies to create the appearance of a double standard that only fools people who know nothing about tennis and nothing about what actually happened.

 

[berrydiva]

That's a great example of a totally misleading article full of omissions and half-truths. Not even half-truths, more like outright lies. Like this regarding Victor Troiki:
Troiki received a code violation for verbal abuse, exactly the same as Serena did. It was his first violation and his punishment (a warning) was exactly the same as Serena's punishment for her first code violation. His fine for the verbal abuse was also exactly the same as Serena's fine for verbal abuse. Serena racked up more fines leading to a higher total because of her two other violations.

And each and every other example in the article is similarly full of lies/half-truths.

And you proved BindiBabe's point perfectly. Pretty much no top players and no Grand Slam finals on that list except for that one time Federer SPOKE to the umpire for a few seconds from his chair without even raising his voice and the rudest thing he said was, "Don't tell me to shut up." Not even remotely in the same category as what Serena did.

I'm less and less sympathetic to Serena the more I see people telling lies to create the appearance of a double standard that only fools people who know nothing about tennis and nothing about what actually happened.

I have no real dog in this fight....only responding to the question of recent outburst by men since McEnroe was the example used of men having outburst. Guess I could've just posted the videos vs the full article as the point was more about recent outburst by men.

 

[FreeSpirit71]

This is good to know and I do remember rules being implemented due to his behavior. I generally remember his celeb status here in the US glorifying his antics....he gained endorsements as some sort of "sexy bad boy of tennis".

I was talking to my cousins about this due to the Serena controversy (I was a kid at the time - but got to watch people like Vitas Gerulaitis, Ivan Lendl, and Jimmy Connors etc play - one of my cousins actually played Guillermo Vilas in Sydney).

I'm surprised people haven't mentioned Jimmy Connors who was notorious for upsetting linesman, umps and the ball girls and boys.. The only difference is that Jimmy somehow got under the wire. McEnroe's antics were so in-your-face that the code of conduct had to be changed. Lots of players who would have been fined or punished post the change suddenly toned it down a bit...lol

 

[bag-mania]

Doesn't it come down to fame? When athletes are unknown and just starting out they don't even think of pulling that kind of behavior with officials. Once they become famous and popular, they believe they know better than those officiating over them. It becomes a power battle between the athlete and the umpire/referee.

 

[berrydiva]

Doesn't it come down to fame? When athletes are unknown and just starting out they don't even think of pulling that kind of behavior with officials. Once they become famous and popular, they believe they know better than those officiating over them. It becomes a power battle between the athlete and the umpire/referee.

Sometimes it goes the other way too. I can't speak much on tennis as I'm more of a casual watcher but I'm a basketball/football fan and sometimes, not often, but sometimes the refs will take the opportunity to make a call against the star athlete just because they can and to take them down a peg. It puts their name out there for a week and all eyes on them for their next game they're reffing.

 

[Charles]

From what I can tell, no male tennis players have been discussed on this board since 2009 and 2012 and then it was brief.

Serena is a huge celebrity and her celebrity goes far beyond the tennis world. Her thread here is 42 pages long and was active in the days and months leading up to this incident. To not discuss this incident would actually require this board to *stop* talking about her and ignore this major piece of news about her.

And it's just this board - Serena is in the media all the time. Usually it's gushy stuff about her husband and her baby and her comeback from giving birth and how she's GOAT or things she's tweeted or posted on instagram. But when people pay attention to the good, they also pay attention to the controversial.

Given how much money and adulation she gets from her celebrity status, I don't see cause for outrage over the fact that people find a newsworthy incident that took place at a major sporting event interesting.

Not quite sure what your point is. Are you saying that she's MORE of a celebrity than Djokovic, Nadal, Federer, Murray, Roddick, etc?? And cause of that, THAT'S why we're talking about it more...not cause she might have a point that historically (overall, and in tennis) men are given a bit more leeway when it comes to outbursts?

 

[Tivo]

That's a great example of a totally misleading article full of omissions and half-truths. Not even half-truths, more like outright lies. Like this regarding Victor Troiki:
Troiki received a code violation for verbal abuse, exactly the same as Serena did. It was his first violation and his punishment (a warning) was exactly the same as Serena's punishment for her first code violation. His fine for the verbal abuse was also exactly the same as Serena's fine for verbal abuse. Serena racked up more fines leading to a higher total because of her two other violations.

And each and every other example in the article is similarly full of lies/half-truths.

And you proved BindiBabe's point perfectly. Pretty much no top players and no Grand Slam finals on that list except for that one time Federer SPOKE to the umpire for a few seconds from his chair without even raising his voice and the rudest thing he said was, "Don't tell me to shut up." Not even remotely in the same category as what Serena did.

I'm less and less sympathetic to Serena the more I see people telling lies to create the appearance of a double standard that only fools people who know nothing about tennis and nothing about what actually happened.

And I need to see evidence of the “outright lies.” Aside from your own interpretations. Where is the proof?

 

[Flatsy]

Not quite sure what your point is. Are you saying that she's MORE of a celebrity than Djokovic, Nadal, Federer, Murray, Roddick, etc?? And cause of that, THAT'S why we're talking about it more...not cause she might have a point that historically (overall, and in tennis) men are given a bit more leeway when it comes to outbursts?

Serena is a much bigger celebrity than any of those men. I've never seen Nadal's ugly mug on the cover of Vogue. Federer's profile probably would have come close 9 or 10 years ago but not lately. Serena is at the forefront of celebrity news and whatever she does is publicized accordingly, which added a lot of attention to an incident that would have been in the news anyway, regardless of who was involved.

In terms of male vs. female outbursts, I would love for somebody to do an accurate comparison of comparable incidents and demonstrate a double standard. But give me a break with the idea that the likes of Marcos Baghdatis and Victor Troiki breaking rackets in the early rounds of whatever tournament is just as newsworthy as all of Flushing Meadows booing the final of the US Open, and that we're only paying attention to the latter because of sexism.

 

[Flatsy]

And I need to see evidence of the “outright lies.” Aside from your own interpretations. Where is the proof?

I already gave a factual response - not an interpretive response - to the very first item on the list, which misrepresented why Troiki's penalties and fines were different from Serena's.

I feel no need to take the time to correct each and every item in the article, but feel free to familiarize yourself with the rules of tennis and do so yourself. Each item compares the fines and penalties received by male players against those received by Serena Williams and implies that the differences are due to sexism, when the differences are actually due to the number of penalties each player had accrued, per the rules of the sport.

 

[berrydiva]

Men are given far more allowance to have outburst than women in any place where there's a display of talents/hard-work vs competition. Happens to most of us women on a daily basis in the workplace; we're supposed to remain docile and never express frustration. I'm not sure why acknowledging sexism exist is problematic. I think the double standard lies in the reactions of people where men are given more allowance to express rage/frustration through outburst than women are allowed. *kanye shrug emoji*

 

[CeeJay]

I was talking to my cousins about this due to the Serena controversy (I was a kid at the time - but got to watch people like Vitas Gerulaitis, Ivan Lendl, and Jimmy Connors etc play - one of my cousins actually played Guillermo Vilas in Sydney).

I'm surprised people haven't mentioned Jimmy Connors who was notorious for upsetting linesman, umps and the ball girls and boys.. The only difference is that Jimmy somehow got under the wire. McEnroe's antics were so in-your-face that the code of conduct had to be changed. Lots of players who would have been fined or punished post the change suddenly toned it down a bit...lol

Yes, Jimmy Connors was the original Tennis "bad boy" (who was engaged to the "Ice Queen" - Chris Evert)! But, remember Ilie Nastase? .. whoa Momma, he was another one and if my memory serves correctly, he preceded Connors.