My opinion of Hermes is changing...

[papertiger]

Lol, I’m one of the longtime scarf collectors and I haven’t noticed a change! For me the worst season was 1999 when the scarves had so much sizing they were stiff like cardboard and uncomfortable. I love the flowy feel of the last few years. The only silk I don’t like is the summer silk, but the winter silks, the twill lave, the carre wash, the new large triangles.....loooooove them. Overall, in the large scheme, over the last 20 years - really no big difference in quality.

There have always been minor issues and some seasons better than others. My CSGMs from the last two years were all better than the previous ten years’. I really haven’t noticed anything with the silks. Hmm!

But have you noticed how the Summer silk weight 140 has now spilled into the AW19.? I'm not buying it, literally. Many love the lighter weight though.

In order to get heavier twill we have to go right back. My Plumes is from 1950s and noticeably thicker than newer scarves (and looks like it was washed a million times) however, both the new Eyeliner weave 90s and the Wash are thicker than the reg twill. I can feel the extra warmth when wearing immediately and in the hand.

The pet hate I have most is the lack of colour on the reverse of some silks. My Samurai is kind of OK because it's pale cw but it put me off buying more. This isn't a recent issue as I have the same with a 2014 scarf but when I see any new scarves with this issue just no.

 

[Meta]

Thanks for dusting off this thread!

I don’t know much about RTW other than occasionally trying things on, but from looking at the photos, I don’t think these are repurposed scarves (unless I misunderstood you). These designs seem to be a more literal interpretation of existing scarves, but Hermes does that now and then.

I have seen designs being used in Ladies/Womens RTW in the same season where the design is also released in silks. This is the first time I'm seeing the EXACT same cw from past seasons reused for RTW.

I follow Hermes’ financial reports, and I think sales of silks have been growing — not as much as leather sales, but there is a small, steady growth (we are talking 2% in silks over 1Q period v. 12% for leather). I am not sure how that is distributed regionally, and I know most growth these days is driven by Asia minus Japan, but I wouldn’t think the silks are in true decline just yet.

Yes, you're right in that sales in silks isn't in the negative, my apologies. That said, in 2017 the growth in silks was 6% yet in 2018 it was 3%. One of the reasons that I've seen quoted in BOF is "consumers are wearing fewer ties and silks scarves," which may be true but I don't think they're helping matters with the quality of their silks, the repeated color families/groups or the lack of saturation or depth in silk printing that has been mentioned ad nauseam. I speak for myself when I have passed up silks because of the quality and I have hunted down multiples of the exact same cw to find flaws in each piece, fresh from the warehouse with plastic packaging.

I too have noticed more things have been staggered. This could be a sales tactic or an effort to optimize their supply chain. I know I am as likely to buy this season’s new scarves as the past few seasons’ scarves myself, so I don’t mind some things showing up recently — sometimes I see a scarf here that enables me and the store still had it, or my SA has it transferred. Sometimes, my needs change and I realize something from a year ago would work great.

Curious — would you rather there was a giant product drop on July 1st with all new scarves instead of having them be staggered?

Like @momasaurus, I don't need a one-time product drop but would greatly appreciate seeing all the cws of one design to decide instead of waiting forever for the next cw that I'm keen on to arrive in order to make a comparision. Most times, the first cw has already gone and so I can't accurately make a comparison and most of the time, when I can't decide I just opt not to buy.

I haven’t encountered quality issues myself, but would be curious as to what the others have experienced.

Lol, I’m one of the longtime scarf collectors and I haven’t noticed a change! For me the worst season was 1999 when the scarves had so much sizing they were stiff like cardboard and uncomfortable. I love the flowy feel of the last few years. The only silk I don’t like is the summer silk, but the winter silks, the twill lave, the carre wash, the new large triangles.....loooooove them. Overall, in the large scheme, over the last 20 years - really no big difference in quality.

There have always been minor issues and some seasons better than others. My CSGMs from the last two years were all better than the previous ten years’. I really haven’t noticed anything with the silks. Hmm!

I use the term silk to encompass all scarves in the silk dept, not just the 100% silk scarves. In my opinion (from my personal experience), the most notable decline in quality for silks are the mousselines, cashmere/silks and/or Plume 140cm silks.

 

[FugitiveRouge]

I feel like the weight shifts and changes in the hand feel are somewhat random! I'm not sure what it is, but some scarves feel thinner to start and then get floppy with wear. Others feel rich and shiny and get velvety. It doesn't feel like a consistent trend over time, but goes in strange spikes. Some of my old vintage scarves feel thin and fragile and some of my modern ones do as well. But others (old and new) feel beefier

 

[PetitVoyageur]

I have definitely noted a drop in quality and I do not believe it is only due to Hermes changing suppliers. I have only been buying silks from 2008 until now and it is very apparent to me especially recently. I think long time collectors would likely agree. It's very difficult to continue to buy thinner silk carres and cashmeres, which do not feel as soft and luxurious, at much higher prices.

I'd say even the SLG and bags quality also declined and we have to pay much higher price for this !

 

[momasaurus]

Very good points. I believe from a business POV Hermes has identified potential growth in silk. So why it may be growing very slightly, they are still angling for younger customers as 1.an entry level product and 2 re-market silks away from their perceived image as bourgeois and conservative . Nadège has taken that H-strategy to the catwalk, reintroducing the scarf fronted knits and incorporating the silks within her collections. This men's collection is clearly a step too far and too obvious, we're not that stupid.

I agree that the staggering of the arrival of silks is not working. Some of the designs come in so late I've forgotten about them or spent my money.

Making 'coordinated' mashup RTW aside the colour families are also not working. I don't want 3 of the same colour scarves across designs, even if those colours suit me.

Will you please go to work for Hermes!? And slap some sense into them? LOLOL.

 

[Notorious Pink]

Making 'coordinated' mashup RTW aside the colour families are also not working. I don't want 3 of the same colour scarves across designs, even if those colours suit me.

LOL wish I could say the same! Whether I want to or not, it looks like this season I am buying multiples of the same cws because they go with so much and I can coordinate, say, my bag twillies with my CSGM. But I have been looking for very specific colors for a long time, so I am jumping now while the cws work for me.

 

[Notorious Pink]

But have you noticed how the Summer silk weight 140 has now spilled into the AW19.? I'm not buying it, literally. Many love the lighter weight though.

It's too thin and wrinkles too easily for me. For SS19 I went with the large triangles instead, which felt thicker and sturdier. I haven't seen any AW19 140 silks yet, but they really should be the twill lave/winter silk.

 

[Notorious Pink]

I use the term silk to encompass all scarves in the silk dept, not just the 100% silk scarves. In my opinion (from my personal experience), the most notable decline in quality for silks are the mousselines, cashmere/silks and/or Plume 140cm silks.

I understand. I am only speaking from my own experience (YMMV!).

I have had issues with mousselines as far back as the Aux Portes du Palais I purchased in June 2012.

The cashmeres are not as good as they were before the Belles du Mexique I purchased in January of 2009. That was the season, I believe, that the cashmere quality went into freefall (AW2008. Come to think of it, the Tohu Bohus from that season weren't so great, either). However - just in my experience - for the last season or two the Cashmeres have become sturdier and less prone to pilling and pulling. I went a number of years not purchasing any cashmeres due to quality issues, but now I am okay with making a few purchases again - it's not like the original cashmere, but it's noticeably better.

I am with you on 140cm silks as far as summer silk is concerned. The winter silk is MUCH better!

 

[Jbizzybeetle]

Oh dear. These are just hot messes!!!!
(I thought Robe de Soir, esp in that CW, was selling well....)

Agree to first sentence. The label “men” is rather generously used also.

 

[prepster]

If the silk quality is changing, I suspect it has less to do with a decision on the part of H and more to do with the environmental stress on the silk worms. There are many key factors that contribute to high quality silk including temperature, air quality, the quality of the food the “worms” eat and the health of the silkworms themselves. I would imagine then, following, that the quality of the thread produced effects how well and consistently it weaves into fabric, and how beautifully it accepts dye. H probably does the best it can with what it can get. If the environment degrades, the quality of everything within it follows, but as humans we sometimes resist making that connection.

 

[craielover]

In the past year or so, it feels like more petit H creations have seeped through to the mainstream lines. Having just looked through the menswear Spring 2020 show reaffirms it. Let's reuse silks from SS18 and 19 and make it into RTW! While I can see this being marketed as sustainability, I also see this as a money grab. Sales of silks have been declining, so let's use those silks instead of sending them to sale. Okay, fair point but can Hermes also please examine their quality control and their production strategy? Quality of silks have been lacklustre with pulls right out of the packaging from warehouse. Also, the strategy of staggering silks to stores isn't working. By the time the silks make it to the store, we've moved on after the long wait. (Read here of the second paragraph as example.)

Oops - this 2020 SS is the first time I find Hermes menswear interesting to a point that it's worth dragging DH to the store. Their usual men's line would never work for our lifestyle. These shirts and jackets indeed offer us a reason to buy H. If my husband just needs a plain shirt or blazer, I wouldn't be able to convince him to give H a try. Just too many competitors out there.

 

[craielover]

And I love 2019AW for silk! So many great designs for women's 90 scarves. I also echo that some scarves (regardless of seasons) tend to drape and wrinkle fairly easily while others stay fine.

 

[frou frou]

Lol, I’m one of the longtime scarf collectors and I haven’t noticed a change! For me the worst season was 1999 when the scarves had so much sizing they were stiff like cardboard and uncomfortable. I love the flowy feel of the last few years. The only silk I don’t like is the summer silk, but the winter silks, the twill lave, the carre wash, the new large triangles.....loooooove them. Overall, in the large scheme, over the last 20 years - really no big difference in quality.

There have always been minor issues and some seasons better than others. My CSGMs from the last two years were all better than the previous ten years’. I really am haven’t noticed anything with the silks. Hmm!

I’m of a mind , I don’t see much drop in quality and love many of the new sizes and shapes of scarves.
If I wanted a scarf ,shawl or bag I could beat up without damage, I’d go to M&S.
I really appreciate the constant tweaking and reinventions of formats, always ready for change.

I don’t like hybrids or things pretending to be another, so scarf clothes aren’t my thing .But kudos to Hermès for trying!

 

[xiaoxiao]

It's too thin and wrinkles too easily for me. For SS19 I went with the large triangles instead, which felt thicker and sturdier. I haven't seen any AW19 140 silks yet, but they really should be the twill lave/winter silk.

Without reading this thread recently, I feel the same way around winter vs summer silk! A lot of times I’m only using the silk to form as a “protection” from my skin against fur, and I find with summer silk the hair still pokes in, but not winter silk. That’s interesting you mentioned the large triangles feel differently from the summer silk. I never paid attention to them, but now I will.

 

[kittyvoo]

While it’s true that Hermes is hardly the only high-end brand with snooty service, for some reason, it seems to be more of a hot button with H customers. I’ve been mulling why that is, and I think that it may have to do with brand identity. Chanel has what I think of as the “Chanel thing.” Maybe it has to do with the reportedly difficult personality of Coco Chanel, or the Too Cool for School Karl Lagerfeld, but Chanel buyers don’t seem to expect a warm and fuzzy experience — at least, not in the way that H fans do. I’m just thinking out loud here, but I think a lot of us (at least here on tpf) associate Hermes with history and craftsmanship. Whether it’s the rolled hem of a scarf or the impeccable stitch on a sellier Kelly, we love our H because we envision the product being made with loving care. When that loving care doesn’t translate to boutique treatment, we are (understandably) disappointed. We hope that SAs will notice our appreciation for the brand, and that that will at the very least mean a positive buying experience, whether we’re buying a twilly or a croc B. It seems like the disappointment when that doesn’t happen is becoming more widespread. Or maybe it’s just me!

Australian Hermes has changed massively in the last 10 years: now virtually all the SA's are native Chinese speakers and the focus is pretty much 100% on keeping mainland Chinese clients (who are visitors to Australia) happy. It has been about 5 years since I came across a French employee and none of the current SA's appear to speak French. In general they have absolutely no clue what silk scarves are on the website, and even less of a clue when it comes to what's in the current season scarf booklet.

I hope someone from Hermes Australia is reading this: I am a scarf collector and I expect the employees to be equipped with basic information. Yes the boutiques are great and yes the service is individual, but this is not the service I need. I agree it is a bit funny when I go in requesting the only colour way of a scarf that hasn't been delivered to Australia (Mountain Zebra CW13), but when I ask for 'The new Florence Manlik scarf (Reverie Solitaire)' I expect a bit more than a desperate scrabble at the iPad. It's perfectly fine that it hasn't hit the stores but the fact that in the first instance nobody knows who Florence Manlik is and then they bring me a Robe du Soir is somewhat exasperating. For AUD$700 (108 Big Macs), I expect more.