My opinion of Hermes is changing...

[spoliedbrat]

:lolots::lolots:

"A relationship with Hermes is like dating that hot bad boy in your teens - despite some disappointments, you just keep coming back because the alternatives are just so unexciting LOL "

LOL! That's it Leah! I keep trying to date others but half way thru the dinner I fake sick and leave..... Then I text Hermes....

 

[VigeeLeBrun]

"A relationship with Hermes is like dating that hot bad boy in your teens - despite some disappointments, you just keep coming back because the alternatives are just so unexciting LOL "

LOL! That's it Leah! I keep trying to date others but half way thru the dinner I fake sick and leave..... Then I text Hermes....

+2, ROFLing! I am sticking with the hot bad boy in my teens.

Back to topic.

 

[chicinthecity777]

A relationship with Hermes is like dating that hot bad boy in your teens - despite some disappointments, you just keep coming back because the alternatives are just so unexciting LOL

LOL! That's it Leah! I keep trying to date others but half way thru the dinner I fake sick and leave..... Then I text Hermes....

+2, ROFLing! I am sticking with the hot bad boy in my teens.

Back to topic.

+ 4! That's me all over!

 

[MSO13]

bumping up this thread in light of some of the conversation about the new Kelly with special handles and the new strap collection.

I thought this thread was a good place to discuss the trendier direction and how people feel about it.

 

[bostonbirkin]

bumping up this thread in light of some of the conversation about the new Kelly with special handles and the new strap collection.

I thought this thread was a good place to discuss the trendier direction and how people feel about it.

Great thread idea! Maybe you could start a new thread, because this thread was more focused on negativite feelings. I think the thread you propose is more upbeat ; )

 

[MSO13]

I had an interesting conversation with the SM of my local store and my SA about the direction H is taking.

Some of you may not have read the story about the upcoming, technology heavy NYC Meatpacking location that is anticipated for next year but H is planning a more modern, accessories heavy (i.e.: no bag hunts) location near the High Line and Chelsea Market. I think this is connected to the new strap collection but not the Kelly with the detailed handles.

My local store has seen an influx of new clients since renovating and you know what they want? Clic H bracelets and Constance Belt Kits because they are visible logos, expensive and not exactly a challenge to get. Not many of these younger, label conscious even know what a Kelly is, maybe they know the B but none of them are willing to spend 5 figures on a bag. They want the easy to acquire visibly H items.

If you're a retailer, the goal will be to convert these clients to brand fanatics. Most of us on this forum already are and discovered the brand in unique ways but now H is discovered by the Constance belt buckle or exposure on the mostly loathed Kardashian family. I don't think brand fans are who they are targeting with these straps or this new location.

I don't fault Hermes for chasing a new client, to maintain the growth they've experienced they have to cultivate a new clientele and that clientele is not likely buying 30K chaise longues nor do they ever aspire to. They will throw a 1K LV case on their new iPhone though and they'll probably put a $2K strap on another brand's bag.

Love it or hate it, H needs to appeal to a new audience because there are only so many people in the world who will buy not just one Birkin but one a year for the next 20. I'm not sure how I feel about the straps yet, my SM said there's one that I will love that's highly detailed and will look great on a vintage black Kelly I have but it's probably 2K so I'll have to wait and see it.

I know there are many here who want to see the classics stay classic but having just had a 3 hour tour of the H museum and seeing the deep, deep roots that the design teams put into even the latest items, I have faith they're staying true to the pillar of craftsmanship and will maintain the brand integrity. I think a lot of others disagree but I think it could be an interesting conversation.

 

[MSO13]

Great thread idea! Maybe you could start a new thread, because this thread was more focused on negativite feelings. I think the thread you propose is more upbeat ; )

Actually, it started as a discussion of just changing views some positive, some negative. It was an interesting thread before it devolved into the usual why do they make it so hard kind of stuff.

I'm probably reading between the lines in the other threads but I'd love to hear why some think H shouldn't ever be trendy or try to appeal to a different market!

 

[bostonbirkin]

Actually, it started as a discussion of just changing views some positive, some negative. It was an interesting thread before it devolved into the usual why do they make it so hard kind of stuff.

I'm probably reading between the lines in the other threads but I'd love to hear why some think H shouldn't ever be trendy or try to appeal to a different market!

It's a cash grab by Hermes, IMO. I think H had overexpanded their square footage in the USA; and it has deeply hurt the bottom line. IMO, they are hoping to have a trend 'catch' on fire for financial reasons. I know my local H isn't doing as well since they doubled the square footage of the store and H increaded the sales goals with the square footage. Leather has always been a big draw for Hermes, but I know (as has been discussed in many threads) that SA are forced to up sell clients into buying housewares or fashion. I'm rambling but I always thought of Hermes and Grace Kelly (A really Princess!) and now they are branding Hermes and Kardashian.

 

[MSO13]

It's a cash grab by Hermes, IMO. I think H had overexpanded their square footage in the USA; and it has deeply hurt the bottom line. IMO, they are hoping to have a trend 'catch' on fire for financial reasons. I know my local H isn't doing as well since they doubled the square footage of the store and H increaded the sales goals with the square footage. Leather has always been a big draw for Hermes, but I know (as has been discussed in many threads) that SA are forced to up sell clients into buying housewares or fashion. I'm rambling but I always thought of Hermes and Grace Kelly (A really Princess!) and now they are branding Hermes and Kardashian.

I think that's a fair assessment, I'm not sure they're are purposely associating with the Ks so much as the brand is over exposed along with the family but I hear you. And I'm sorry to say but a lot of today's buyers don't know who Grace Kelly is but they do know the Ks.

I completely agree that they are trying to find that thing that catches fire, at a price that client can be persuaded to pay. My store doesn't play games with me and they seem to do ok in all categories but I have noticed just in my time in the store shopping that the lower priced, easily recognizable items are selling to "new" clients.

I did forget to say in my previous post, I don't think the special Kelly handles are the same as the straps. Those to me look like a Fall limited edition like the Shark or the printed Kelly and Constance in the past. I believe that the shapes and pattern will make sense when we see the scarves and RTW fully, I saw some of the books that were recently used as inspiration in the Museum last week!

 

[Monceau]

The focus on growth concerns me. Even in terms of investing, I'm more of a value person than a growth person. There has to be a balance, and chasing growth can ruin a brand. I hope Hermes is careful in this respect. In my opinion, most brands lose their integrity when they start chasing trends.

I have always admired Loro Piana for their focus on quality, and they have managed to maintain that aspect even after being purchased by LVMH. They are still a relatively small brand with a specific clientele. I appreciate that their items whisper rather than scream.

I think we will have to let the dust settle a bit to see the direction of Hermes, but my take is that the special kelly handles are more in line with past limited offerings, like the Touareg silver pieces- the kelly handles seem to be an homage to an African motif. Hermes has a long history of collaborating with traditional artisans from various groups, and the kelly handles seem to be in this vein. The straps, however, do seem like chasing a trend. I was a bit horrified to see the Constance like H buckles on some of the new fall shoes- way to obvious for my liking and clearly aimed at the logo crowd. Did your SM share any thoughts on the inspiration for the Kelly handles, MrsOwen3 ? Am I correct in thinking this is more of an artisan motif, or is that just wishful thinking on my part?

 

[QuelleFromage]

The focus on growth concerns me. Even in terms of investing, I'm more of a value person than a growth person. There has to be a balance, and chasing growth can ruin a brand. I hope Hermes is careful in this respect. In my opinion, most brands lose their integrity when they start chasing trends.

I have always admired Loro Piana for their focus on quality, and they have managed to maintain that aspect even after being purchased by LVMH. They are still a relatively small brand with a specific clientele. I appreciate that their items whisper rather than scream.

I think we will have to let the dust settle a bit to see the direction of Hermes, but my take is that the special kelly handles are more in line with past limited offerings, like the Touareg silver pieces- the kelly handles seem to be an homage to an African motif. Hermes has a long history of collaborating with traditional artisans from various groups, and the kelly handles seem to be in this vein. The straps, however, do seem like chasing a trend. I was a bit horrified to see the Constance like H buckles on some of the new fall shoes- way to obvious for my liking and clearly aimed at the logo crowd. Did your SM share any thoughts on the inspiration for the Kelly handles, MrsOwen3 ? Am I correct in thinking this is more of an artisan motif, or is that just wishful thinking on my part?

The handles look to me like the teeth from the Shark line. If this is just this year's limited edition, like the Contour, etc., I can see it. It looks like the black K has guilloche hardware, so it could be special IRL, and if that is a Barenia K, then the line is probably fairly limited.

On the growth side, I so agree. One thing that separates H from LV is the near (not total) lack of entry-level items beyond the perfumes. Even the keychains, etc. are fairly expensive and not heavily marketed, whereas I walk into LV and I see a lot of heavily branded items at a relatively low price point. Hermès has held up quite well over the past few years, and maybe they need to retract the giant flagship concept a bit rather than coming closer to the mass market.
I wonder if they listen to us

 

[MSO13]

The focus on growth concerns me. Even in terms of investing, I'm more of a value person than a growth person. There has to be a balance, and chasing growth can ruin a brand. I hope Hermes is careful in this respect. In my opinion, most brands lose their integrity when they start chasing trends.

I have always admired Loro Piana for their focus on quality, and they have managed to maintain that aspect even after being purchased by LVMH. They are still a relatively small brand with a specific clientele. I appreciate that their items whisper rather than scream.

I think we will have to let the dust settle a bit to see the direction of Hermes, but my take is that the special kelly handles are more in line with past limited offerings, like the Touareg silver pieces- the kelly handles seem to be an homage to an African motif. Hermes has a long history of collaborating with traditional artisans from various groups, and the kelly handles seem to be in this vein. The straps, however, do seem like chasing a trend. I was a bit horrified to see the Constance like H buckles on some of the new fall shoes- way to obvious for my liking and clearly aimed at the logo crowd. Did your SM share any thoughts on the inspiration for the Kelly handles, MrsOwen3 ? Am I correct in thinking this is more of an artisan motif, or is that just wishful thinking on my part?

Definitely Monceau, the Kelly handles really need to be separated from the straps as they are not even being sold together. Two different issues I think.

The handle motif is grounded in the Fall concepts, I believe there is a scarf, shawl, jewelry and RTW connection to these. It's similar to the Tattersale Constance, the printed Kelly in past seasons. They're likely to be limited and not repeated. I don't know the specific inspiration but did see some of the books the design team was recently using in the museum.

As for the logo crowd, I know we've talked about this before. I don't think it's growth just for the sake of revenue but sustaining the practices that are at the heart of the company. I don't think they want to expand like LV or have as broad a base but they do need to cultivate a client almost separated from the Birkin/Kelly collector. The struggle continues to be to not alienate the long time fans who wish the brand to remain under the radar but I don't see how that continues without "recruiting" an audience who as I've said, doesn't know who Grace Kelly is.

I see a lot of people who just want that H buckle or the Clic H bracelet because of what it means to them. Just like the company can't live on just Birkin sales forever, they can't survive just selling belts and bracelets. I think it's too soon to tell how far they will go to chase a trend but my SM did describe the incredible detail of one of the straps she thought I would love and expressed that she wished it was a special order item as they are apparently so widely varied, it's going to be hard for clients to find their match. Apparently straps were the hardest part of podium!

 

[weibandy]

Very interesting discussion. I don't have enough experience to add much information, but the comments here are of interest. I've seen some interviews with H CEO Dumas and he does seem well aware of the importance of defending brand equity. Once lost, it is awfully hard to get back, and we have certainly seen it happen to other brands.

I would be very sorry to see H move away from elegant exclusivity.

 

[Hermezzy]

As always, you all have on point comments that are deeply insightful. For me, the key to H diversifying its market share lies in its ready-to-wear, as is the case with so many other fashion houses. H did it backwards- they started w/the accessories and then tried to make it in the pret-a-porter world, whereas so many other houses started w/clothing and then went to accessories. We all know that, on the women's side, there has been a revolving door of design chiefs, each with, at times, highly variable aesthetic languages. Veronique Nichanian, on the men's side, has been much more constant, but, as much as I love what she does, it will not change the house's market like a Tom Ford, Hedi Slimane, Riccardo Tisci, etc. did at Gucci/Dior/Givenchy, etc.. I ask my French native friends what their opinion of H is. Often the response is, "very high quality....but a little old fashioned?". I love H right now and there are plenty of products I adore (and I'm happy if they don't get a Hedi/Tom/Riccardo), but it may take a couple of wunderkind ready-to-wear designers to really make an impact along the lines of what the company wishes to produce.

 

[PJW5813]

I had an interesting conversation with the SM of my local store and my SA about the direction H is taking.

My local store has seen an influx of new clients since renovating and you know what they want? Clic H bracelets and Constance Belt Kits because they are visible logos, expensive and not exactly a challenge to get. Not many of these younger, label conscious even know what a Kelly is, maybe they know the B but none of them are willing to spend 5 figures on a bag. They want the easy to acquire visibly H items.

I think this is a little unkind. It is not 'none of them are willing to spend 5 figures on a bag' but more that they don't have 5 figures to spend on a bag. There concern is not 'if I buy this bag will it count against my quota' or some such other Hermes 1st world problem.
There is a lovely new thread on here: Reveal! My first little piece of Hermes!
It is a twilly and it is bringing such pleasure.
Surely the important thing is that Hermes does not compromise the quality of its lower priced items - so that whatever you buy can be something special. I agree we do live in a more label conscious world, but does that really matter?

Twenty years ago I bought my first piece of Hermes - a silk tie for £65 - it has no logo, just a label on the reverse, that would not normally be visible. I do now have a couple of bags, but my Hermes purchases a still mainly what you might consider entry level.