Michael & Alicia Fassbender ~ A Loving Couple Thread

[Kyoko Karenina]

All of the above.
You're a woman yourself. If a woman is successful on more than one front it's even worse for other women to stand. If she's beautiful then she's dumb. If she's smart then she's ugly. If she's dating the hot guy then she must be using him. But Alicia checks all boxes. Pretty, smart about her career, talented. It brings out the Gollum in a lot of women.

See, this is where we disagree, because I do not in my heart of hearts think she is pretty. Like, not even a little. She's an okay talent, nothing extraordinary. I actually did not hate her, I just didn't get the hype. That's why I posited the theory that her ridiculous fans and just as ridiculous PR are doing her in, because that's what pushed me personally to more of an extreme dislike, and what I'm learning of her personality is keeping me there.

Plus, I just don't buy this misogynistic view of women that they hate on all other women who are smart and pretty and talented. I am all of those things, and I haven't had a problem with women hating me because I am. I know many women who are all those things, and again, no problems with unjustified hate. I think that's just a cop out - it's far easier to chalk lots of haters up to "bitter jealousy" than it is to look within and examine yourself to see if maybe, just maybe, you're putting something out there that's encouraging that kind of negative reaction. Not all women are victims.

ETA: Because it just dawned on me... you said of course people didn't dislike Nicole when she was with Fassbender because she didn't have the exposure to say the wrong things. But here, you're saying people are hating on AV not because she's said the wrong things, but because she's pretty and smart and talented and of course jealous hating is just what women do... so, do you not think Nicole is/was any of those things? Interesting.

 

[Jayne1]

See..now this...why pit one actress directly against the other?

Because I want to and because i was responding to someone above who spoke of both.

 

[jcsepjj]

What? Where? Like, seriously... where has this taken place? Assaulting her every time she's going to the gym? What? I think you just completely made that up, OMG.

Why would I make it up? Trust me I wish it wasn't true.

 

[BagBerry13]

See, this is where we disagree, because I do not in my heart of hearts think she is pretty. Like, not even a little. She's an okay talent, nothing extraordinary. I actually did not hate her, I just didn't get the hype. That's why I posited the theory that her ridiculous fans and just as ridiculous PR are doing her in, because that's what pushed me personally to more of an extreme dislike, and what I'm learning of her personality is keeping me there.

Plus, I just don't buy this misogynistic view of women that they hate on all other women who are smart and pretty and talented. I am all of those things, and I haven't had a problem with women hating me because I am. I know many women who are all those things, and again, no problems with unjustified hate. I think that's just a cop out - it's far easier to chalk lots of haters up to "bitter jealousy" than it is to look within and examine yourself to see if maybe, just maybe, you're putting something out there that's encouraging that kind of negative reaction. Not all women are victims.

Well, that's very narrow-minded. Just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't mean it's not happening at all. I'm not hungry therefore there can't be hungry people in this world, right?
I've seen it happening to enough women. There are whole tumblrs about misogyny in the film industry. Closing your eyes to it won't make it go away.
And saying every woman that gets this much hate deserves it because she put that kind of thing out there is as misogynistic.

 

[FreeSpirit71]

Because I want to and because i was responding to someone above who spoke of both.

Fair enough I guess as a fan of both that comparison bothers me but..each to their own

 

[jcsepjj]

So... is she hated because she's "dating an envied for bachelor" or because she's "becoming successful on a high level"? Just wondering. I was way more into Fassy back when he dated Nicole, so maybe that's why she seemed to be getting plenty of exposure to me then. I will say, as far as the US is concerned at least, being on one hit TV show will make an actor more known to more people than being in zero hit movies. While AV has been in some acclaimed films, none have been big box office hits. She's only known to cinephiles and Fassy fans at this point, I'd say. Oh, and I guess Europeans, although even then I think it's limited mostly to movie-loving Europeans.

I Sleepy Hollow considered a hit show it the US? I started watching it for Katia Winter but got bored really fast. Anyways, I don't think Alicia really care much about Box Office Hits, although I'm sure the man from UNCLE and Bourne will do very well, it's more about being able to work as an actress for a living and working on interresting projects and with talented people. Dispite popular belief, it's never been about personal exposure for her.

 

[Kyoko Karenina]

Why would I make it up? Trust me I wish it wasn't true. View attachment 3069026View attachment 3069027

Whaaaaaaaat. OMG. That is NOT assault. Saying someone looks like a prepubescent child is not ASSAULT. Saying you saw her at a gym and she was so thin you wondered how she could keep warm is not ASSAULT. That right there is what's called an opinion, and not even particularly mean ones at that. You can call it body shaming too, because it is, but it is not freaking assault. OMG. Like, what even? It has to be a language mix up, because no one is that over the top?

 

[Kyoko Karenina]

Well, that's very narrow-minded. Just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't mean it's not happening at all. I'm not hungry therefore there can't be hungry people in this world, right?
I've seen it happening to enough women. There are whole tumblrs about misogyny in the film industry. Closing your eyes to it won't make it go away.
And saying every woman that gets this much hate deserves it because she put that kind of thing out there is as misogynistic.

You were not talking about misogyny in the industry, but about women hating AV because of their own jealousy. I disagree with that latter sentiment. I didn't say no woman ever hates on another because of jealousy, I just dont think that's the default mindset of most women, as you seem to generalize. I would never generalize women that way. Seeing women in general as nothing but a bunch of catty haters is, to me, the picture of internalized misogyny. Most women really aren't like that. And no, it is not a form of misogyny to say that a celebrity is disliked because of what she's putting out rather than OMG jealousy. Misogyny is not "anything bad said about a woman ever." Just, no.

 

[jcsepjj]

Whaaaaaaaat. OMG. That is NOT assault. Saying someone looks like a prepubescent child is not ASSAULT. Saying you saw her at a gym and she was so thin you wondered how she could keep warm is not ASSAULT. That right there is what's called an opinion, and not even particularly mean ones at that. You can call it body shaming too, because it is, but it is not freaking assault. OMG. Like, what even? It has to be a language mix up, because no one is that over the top?

There's about five month of bad mouthing on there. I'll send you the link to the forum if you want, but something tells me you already know it!

 

[jcsepjj]

What? Where? Like, seriously... where has this taken place? Assaulting her every time she's going to the gym? What? I think you just completely made that up, OMG.

On another note, I wish people would stop trivializing the use of the word "bullying". Like, talking sh!t about a celebrity is NOT bullying. Bullying is too serious to be trivialized by equating it with negative things said about a celebrity on a celebrity gossip board.

bul·ly
ˈbo͝olē/
verb
gerund or present participle: bullying
use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants.
synonyms:persecute, oppress, tyrannize, browbeat, harass, torment, intimidate, strong-arm, dominate

None of that is going on here, because we do not have superior strength or influence over Alicia Vikander, and Alicia Vikander does not need to read any negative comments mentioned about her anywhere on the internet if she so chooses. So she is not being persecuted, or oppressed, or tyrannized. Like, just stop.

Cyberbullying is the use of social networks to repeatedly harm or harass other people in a deliberate manner.[1] According to U.S. Legal Definitions, "cyber-bullying could be limited to posting rumors or gossips about a person in the internet bringing about hatred in other’s minds; or it may go to the extent of personally identifying victims and publishing materials severely defaming and humiliating them".[2]

 

[BagBerry13]

You were not talking about misogyny in the industry, but about women hating AV because of their own jealousy. I disagree with that latter sentiment. I didn't say no woman ever hates on another because of jealousy, I just dont think that's the default mindset of most women, as you seem to generalize. I would never generalize women that way. Seeing women in general as nothing but a bunch of catty haters is, to me, the picture of internalized misogyny. Most women really aren't like that. And no, it is not a form of misogyny to say that a celebrity is disliked because of what she's putting out rather than OMG jealousy. Misogyny is not "anything bad said about a woman ever." Just, no.

No one talked about it being a default mindset for women. It was obviously triggered by something. That much is clear.
And sorry that I was using the film industry (the one she's working in) as ONE example of many. Again, just because you don't see women hating on each other doesn't mean it's not out there. You don't generalise women. Good for you. But that's your personal choice. There are as many out there who apparently can't control their feelings that easily. I'm just saying Chelsea Handler constantly going after Angelina for Jennifer. It's childish and immature and still a grown-up woman is doing it. So maybe not everyone is as superior as you are.

 

[mollie12]

I'm sort of in between here. I think Kyoko's right that a lot of the negative reactions to Vikander have nothing to do with misogyny or jealousy and it's a massive stretch to call even the most negative comments "cyber-bullying". Frustration with her "hype" is a legitimate response.

On the other hand, I do think some of the comments about her body and all of the speculation/conspiracy theories about owing her career to Weinstein (and yes, there are a lot people spamming this tripe) are beyond ridiculous. Whether you think she's a mediocre talent or not, it defies all rationality to believe that Weinstein has any (or even a little) influence in most of the projects she's been cast for. It suggests a massive misunderstanding of how the film industry works.

 

[Kyoko Karenina]

Cyberbullying is the use of social networks to repeatedly harm or harass other people in a deliberate manner.[1] According to U.S. Legal Definitions, "cyber-bullying could be limited to posting rumors or gossips about a person in the internet bringing about hatred in other’s minds; or it may go to the extent of personally identifying victims and publishing materials severely defaming and humiliating them".[2]

Nothing said about her anywhere on the internet brings her actual harm. Bad mouthing her on the internet is not assault, nor is it cyber-bullying -- assault is physically attacking someone, while cyber-bullying has to be deliberately malicious and result in actual harm for it to be bullying, and not just people saying mean things or having a poor opinion of her. There is still freedom of speech! So no.

(I bolded that because I think you were working off an incorrect definition of assault. I'm not sure what word you mean instead... insult, maybe? Insult is to bad mouth someone)

 

[Morgane]

That being said, I don't mind reading comments like "she said she'll have 3 movies in contention for oscar? Wow what a arrogant *****" but i'm not comfortable reading stuff like "oh she got that Bourne role, so she's screwing Marshall too on top of Weinstein!", it's just disgusting. Those are the kind of comments i notice being written more and more by the same disqus accounts on different sites

I've read articles that is strictly about her career/movies (no Michael mentioned) on movie sites and i saw some people (with disqus account) on the comment section saying those stuff about her using sexual favours/Weinstein to get her roles, and i was a bit surprised because I thought 'wow apparently this rumor do exists outside of Fassy fandom'

But then... I was on justjared, reading some articles about them and in the comment section, i found those same disqus accounts who spread the casting couch **** all over the internet. They are in fact regular commenters on Michael's articles at JJ lol. Still the same Fassy stans all over again, taking over every articles about her

And if there are people who dislike her outside the Fassy fandom, it's completely normal, right? I mean when you're an actress/famous people, of course there are people who like you and those who don't. People might not like her acting, her looks, her attitude, and especially for a rising star like her, some people might find her overexposed or overrated (like people did with Jlaw, Shailene, Rooney, etc)... it's just that kind of dislike, it's normal, she can't please everyone. But what disturb me is the nasty, over the top, accusations and theories about her that seem to coming from one collective source and that is the Fassy fandom

I completely agree with you. Are you referring to Deadline? I've already linked an article here.

No, I think it's based on the articles. Most people don't follow Fassy fans. If not for the quotes in those articles, she may have stood a chance with them and me.

I think you're talking about the W mag interview. Personally I don't have any problem with it,actually I find this bit very funny :

After meeting with the casting directors, she was en route to the airport when she received the call she had been waiting for: Executives at Universal wanted to send her to Los Angeles to screen-test for the part of Snow White. “I was on the phone crying at a Starbucks,” Vikander recalled. “People thought I was having a breakup with my boyfriend! I said, ‘No—it’s good news! I’m going to have a career!’ ”

but I can totally see why the 3 movies in contention quote can rub someone the wrong way. I don't get arrogant vibes,I don't even think she was saying that she'll be nominated for them.. but she may come across as arrogant,ambitious in that interview. Even in this case it's possible to see the difference between interested and disinterested comments... She's not that known,aside from cinephiles,movie buffs.If her big studios projects have good BO,she will get more exposure.

 

[Morgane]

As for the "vile" Weinstein rumors, many actresses have these kinds of rumors, from Blake Lively to Gwenyth Paltrow to JLaw to Jessica Chastain (although my fave Chastain explanation for her rise out of nowhere is that she is the illegitimate child of Ron Howard! Lol). But some AV fans go so hard about this as if she's the only actress ever gossiped about in this way, it comes off sounding like they "doth protest too much", which just adds to people's convictions. That NY Times reporter comparing her to Blake Lively didn't help, because it was such a random comparison. When I saw that picture of alicia beaming up at Harvey, it made me wonder if that was why the reporter chose that particular comparison, because if you wanna talk about vicious, check out the Lively rumors. But even without that, the HW rumors were inevitable, it happens to everyone who comes out of nowhere hailed as an It girl. Welcome to Hollywood!

It wasn't a random comparison. The NYT profile was in the style section,it's obvious from the journalist's words that it was a reference to the pretentiousness of the whole operation "let's interview Vikander at the MoMA". The comparison with the "sophisticated" fashion it girl Blake Lively and her pretentious blog Preserve,that many people were ridiculizing,was not random. She was interviewed before Cannes and "that picture of Alicia beaming up at Harvey". Even the reports from his showreel at Cannes were basically all about Weinstein gushing over Gyllenhaal,not the new it girl Vikander promoted by Weinstein. She's not the only actress gossiped in this way,but what people are saying here is that "this gossip" comes from the same small group of persons. It's not even comparable to what was said about JLaw,Paltrow, Lively,etc..
I've never seen cinephiles,movie buffs,people who know the movie industry questioning her career,because actually she doesn't come out of nowhere. Many people are comparing her to Chastain,but she already had a movie nominated at the Oscars,a BAFTA nomination and other critical acclaimed performances that really put her in the spotlight three years ago. I've read other old interviews and it's obvious that she was already creating contacts with designers and fashion houses,and her career was already taking a specific direction.
http://www.instyle.co.uk/celebrity/...ander-talks-baftas-ballet-and-falling-in-love
At least Paltrow won an Oscar with Weinstein,JLaw was heavily promoted by him for SLPB and won an Oscar,with all the vicious,disgusting rumors of the case.Apparently Weinstein bought the AH nomination too.. As far as I know Lively has never been in movies produced by Weinstein,but she's not a great actress and after Gossip Girl there was this big push from the fashion industry like the next "it girl",blind items,stories that basically fueled a particular image that now is like an uban legend.
In her case, at the moment ,there's not a good reason why Weinstein should be interested in promoting her. Yes,she has Tulip Fever,but she has better chances to win something for TDG. Tulip Fever doesn't even have a release date and,according to the first screenings,its chances to be an awards contender are very little,even if the acting is quite good. Weinstein has a movie like Carol with Blanchett,critical hit at Cannes with an award winning performance. Does he really need to promote Vikander?
You're right about the big PR push of her as It Girl,but that big PR push is due to the overhyped (IMO) "eight movies" which obviously involve other big studios. The Danish Girl had even a press conference while they were still filming,just saying..