Maintaining an H relationship

[papertiger]

Please focus on the title of this thread rather than each other, TY

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[880]

So, there is really no reason that clients would "only" buy RTW from H.

Even my H SA would agree with this ^ lol. (He is a big fan of Prada and Dior RTW and is fond of AP watches). The H watch is a fashion piece. Some of us use it as a travel watch. No SA is going to say it competes with a Patek lol. It’s just an SAs job to attempt to sell the product in the store. A client is free to shop there, or elsewhere, and a client can always say no. But, to get back to H relationships, an SA is going to be exhausted by a client who takes an SA trying to do his job as a personal affront All these big luxury brands are competing essentially for the same kind of luxury client. They cannot afford to fall behind in any popular category, for example lip gloss. But, I’m free to walk past it. When I was buying holiday gifts for my architect and interior designer, I asked what would my SA recommend in first floor merchandise. He laughed and said go around the corner and buy a nice le labo candle for them. I take this as a tiny bit of anecdotal evidence that they don’t need to squeeze a sale out of every stone

 

[MonsoonBirkin]

The ideal H customer is one that brings the company the most money, period. This, to me, is as factual--albeit cynical--a reality as the one told by the diehards here which is, "Hermes is a business and has no obligation to sell you a bag."

Of course, the business tells lots of stories about "generating appreciation for all its metiers by buying in every category." This is marketing and brand-building. Engaging in flagrant consumerism on luxury goods is not a journey. Visiting FSH is not a pilgrimage, because Hermes is not a god (Greek one not withstanding). Hermes and the SAs can never be one's family.

I think it's silly to deem people who want bags first and foremost as bad customers or less worthy. Hermes can inculcate that perception among its SAs that (again: they're a business and it's a financial strategy that works really well for them) but to so harshly judge each other here using that same corporate logic is... something I will never understand. Especially when pretty much none of us believe the company is the best at what it does in each and every single metier. I don't think those who complain about not being offered a QB despite exorbitant spending is in the wrong (unless they have been rude or entitled, but I don't see that in the stories shared here). I emphathize with those who grit their teeth and buy an object they may really like, and may find it beautiful... but also think how they'd rather be buying a custom-made jacket of arguably higher quality from their local tailor with the money for half the price. I don't think they're making a poor purchasing decision to buy said Hermes jacket because it comes with a tradeoff of being closer to a bag, which they do want. It is transactional, and that is okay, because at the end of the day--it's just business.

To be clear: I really like Hermes. They make phenomenal bags, and their other items are quality. This isn't me bashing the brand, any more than I would any other corporation whose sole purpose is to generate money for its shareholders.

And to be on topic: Maintaining a good relationship with an SA is about spending a lot of money first and foremost, being a good fit with an SA, and not being a jerk about it or in vocalizing one's expectations throughout the process. Everything else about "being the ideal Hermes client by truly valuing the brand" is a whole lot of marketing fluff unless it ties back into making money. Case in point: I could go into a store, wax poetic about Thierry Herme's childhood as an orphan resulting in grit that built an empire, Emile's brilliance in going to St Petersburg and approaching royal family to handle their equestrian needs and how that created a lasting tie to Russia in existence today, that I prefer Alice Shirley's scarf designs to Annie Faivre's... and I ain't walking out of the store with a QB based on my words alone.

 

[880]

Im not saying a person who just wants a bag is less worthy as a morality test A variety of SAs have told me (not just my SAs) that with respect to bags, they would prefer to advocate for someone who is interested in exploring other metiers. To persuade their SM to award a bag to someone who isn’t interested in the exploration doesn’t work for the SA. Bc it’s been their experience that once that type of client gets the offer, they will stop shopping. While H is a business, the ‘bag worthy’ distinction is not just raw prespend but whether a client has the inclination to be grown into a lifestyle client. (Not my opinion,, but what I’ve been told) All of this is relevant to how to cultivate a SA relationship bc the relationship is a two way street. The relationship ideally goes beyond payment for merchandise.

Just as some of you wish that SAs better valued clients who are bag centric, some of us simply wish people would not assume every client’s reason for shopping is any popular qb offer. Re H history, I could care less about Theirry Hermes and the FSH museum, but I do know more than one TPFer who did get her regular FSH SA and regular QB offers post Covid bc she is actually interested in the history of the brand.

 

[Veritybelle]

But also, being interested in leather only is as valid a choice as being interested only in RTW or homewares or whatever. The true H heritage is founded in leather, after all. I don’t think it makes you a less loyal or committed client just because you choose to shop only those metiers that appeal to your personal taste and requirements. Unfortunately that client-forward approach doesn’t necessarily mesh with H’s sales strategy.

 

[textilegirl]

It’s your money, you can choose to spend it in any way you wish. But if you wish to ‘maintain your relationship’ with H there are certain ‘idiosyncrasies’ that must be tolerated, and they’re well-known at this point.

I started my current relationship with silks and have explored other metiers suited to my style and interests. But I am not shackled to H, if they have what I want, great, if not I shop elsewhere because I prefer to solve my ‘problems’ and move on rather than live with them and be frustrated. One of my idiosyncrasies.

 

[Mrs.Hermess]

Im not saying a person who just wants a bag is less worthy as a morality test A variety of SAs have told me (not just my SAs) that with respect to bags, they would prefer to advocate for someone who is interested in exploring other metiers. To persuade their SM to award a bag to someone who isn’t interested in the exploration doesn’t work for the SA. Bc it’s been their experience that once that type of client gets the offer, they will stop shopping. While H is a business, the ‘bag worthy’ distinction is not just raw prespend but whether a client has the inclination to be grown into a lifestyle client. (Not my opinion,, but what I’ve been told) All of this is relevant to how to cultivate a SA relationship bc the relationship is a two way street. The relationship ideally goes beyond payment for merchandise.

Just as some of you wish that SAs better valued clients who are bag centric, some of us simply wish people would not assume every client’s reason for shopping is any popular qb offer. Re H history, I could care less about Theirry Hermes and the FSH museum, but I do know more than one TPFer who did get her regular FSH SA and regular QB offers post Covid bc she is actually interested in the history of the brand.

💯

 

[Daydrmer]

I don’t think (most) people here judge those who just want bags. What we try to convey is if you are only interested in bags you should look into the resell market. Because Hermes is a business and they generally are not going to give their hottest selling items to those who won’t spend money elsewhere with the brand. And as a business that makes sense.

 

[blushnbellinlvoe]

The ideal H customer is one that brings the company the most money, period

While H is a business, the ‘bag worthy’ distinction is not just raw prespend but whether a client has the inclination to be grown into a lifestyle client

Because Hermes is a business and they generally are not going to give their hottest selling items to those who won’t spend money elsewhere with the brand. And as a business that makes sense.

Piggybacking on the above, I will continue that logic and add that it is H’s view that the lifestyle client will be much more profitable overall because they will be spending much more ( and consistently ) over the coarse of a lifetime. So a client focused on only acquiring a bag may be spending only for that sole purpose. Once that purpose has been met, there is no longer any further interest and that client is never heard from again (or worse they resell.) To illustrate my point, while 25k(prespend) + 25(bag) = 50k total is a lot of money, the long game H is betting on is much more profitable. The lifestyle client could be spending 25k annually for their lifetime (10-20 x 30 years= 700,000++ total) plus, a very solid RELATIONSHIP has been established in the meantime! They want to court the new aspirational clients with the romance and history so they can become loyal clients. Yes, it is all business.

 

[MonsoonBirkin]

So a client focused on only acquiring a bag may be spending only for that sole purpose. Once that purpose has been met, there is no longer any further interest and that client is never heard from again or worse they resell.

Not sure I agree with this. For a lot of clients, once they get one bag they're then trying to acquire a second... or third... or fourteenth. Those NOT interested in the bags can be just as risky/short-term client because once they get, say, an Avalon pillow and blanket set, some are done with the brand.

If I'm an SA who HAD to pick between a client who was willing to spend to get a bag, vs one with no intention of getting a QB and wanted to browse other things, I'm courting the bag client. Especially because it's a signal they have deep enough pockets to shell out not just $13k or so on a bag but roughly that much on other things. That signal isn't necessarily present for the person who buys perfume and doesn't mention a bag. Now, I'd work hard to convert the bag client to a life-long lover of the house and all its things, which points to an overarching point that those clients represent an opportunity. A very lucrative one. And Hermes knows this and leans into it heavily. So, SAs who turn their nose up at such individuals and deem them less worthy for a bag, or even that they should "stick to the resale market for bags" do so at their--and H's--demise. Thankfully I think that attitude is more brand positioning ("scarcity!" "exclusivity!" "the RIGHT kind of client!") than what actually transpires within the stores since they do in fact court the bag clients, but when people repeat that gatekeeping ethos here I... yeah.

 

[A1aGypsy]

I have a questions regarding what to do about SA and a store in particular. I spent 45k plus and have been waiting for a QB for 15 months. Took 2 non QB in the meanwhile. I mentioned to the SA that now I would like to wait for a QB before buying other items that I am interested in. I asked for one item that I needed now and radio silence. The SA had promised a bag would arrive for me soon but then started acting strange when I approached the subject. I went to the store, I talked to the person’s manager. “Nothing is guaranteed, everyone is waiting…” You know, the same story. Then started saying maybe during summer a bag , or the end of year. I mentioned I thought it would be a good idea to switch associates. The person mentioned that I’ve been a year with the SA, that should keep the same. If I wanted another one, should be mindful that this new SA would have his/her own clients. To say I was disappointed with the treatment I received is an understatement after dropping 45k there. The SA’s manager mentioned he would tell the SA to keep an eye out for the bag. As everyone is well aware, there are always bags available. I don’t feel like contacting the SA to order anything from him (who knows if he would reply) nor to keep coming to ask if the bag arrived. At the same time, I don’t want to lose 45k prespend there. Honestly, I just feel they will string me along. A friend suggested I should return my last big purchase to another store and buy everything again with an SA that is nice to me. Another suggested I should pass or text every two weeks to check on the bag. Also, send one small thing here and there to this SA that I am stuck with saying I want it and just get that small thing and follow up on the bag. If this SA doesn’t reply, that I should go to the store manager. What do you suggest I do in this situation?

The exotic you bought, are you including that in your quote of your spend? Because they generally don’t count towards anything, to my understanding.

I just think, unfortunately, you may have tripped over all the “triggers” that will prevent you from getting a bag rather than enhance your opportunity. Talking to the manager, telling them you have many bags, having a wide ranging wish list, accepting non-QBs, complaining about service, writing requests, making urgent requests, shopping at another store, not regularly shopping in person, wanting or suggesting you want to switch SAs, connecting future purchases to being able to obtain a bag and this whole cITES situation- to name a few.

Every store, jurisdiction and client experience is different but I just think you may be expecting a consumer experience that Hermes does not offer.

 

[880]

That signal isn't necessarily present for the person who buys perfume and doesn't mention a bag. Now, I'd work hard to convert the bag client to a life-long lover of the house and all its things, which points to an overarching point that those clients represent an opportunity

I’m not @blushnbellinlvoe, but what she’s reported has been what I’ve actually heard from SAs and SMs at Madison post Covid as consistent with H corporate philosophy. (Not saying I agree with it; simply that if one understands it, it’s easier to have a relationship with an SA who is first point of contact for the brand)

I do agree with you that an SA looking to build a relationship may prefer a client who is aiming for bigger items, rather than a one off perfume buyer, but I don’t think anyone here (in the exchange of opinions in the last few pages at least) was contemplating turning a perfume buyer into a 5 or 6 figure lifestyle client…

Having said that, H management is very aware of the importance of appearing welcoming, friendly, and accessible, esp. on the first floor, as that one is where the initial impression is made. The enormous category of aspirational clients who do buy lipstick, and who may never buy a bag, is, as a whole, extremely important to Hermes bottom line. So management keeps a bit more of an eye on staff and client facing attitude starting with ground up.

As for the gatekeeping ethos , everyone has different opinions. It seems pretty clear to me that the premier luxury brands are the ones who install gatekeeping hurdles simply by virtue of high prices and scarce product. I don’t really see that attitude among TPFers who report conversations with H staff or management, but JMO

 

[momoc]

Nobody needs a 10000$ bag just to hold stuff. No matter how well made (leather, craftsmanship) or good looking it is. By virtue of shopping for that bag we are not just looking for a handbag but also what it has associated with it. Literally it’s intrinsically got gates that are sky high for 99% of the population. (I mean…wanna talk about how H shoppers like to look down on other luxury handbag brands’ shoppers?)

And yes I am saying all that as I’m shopping for these bags. It’s ok! We can enjoy things in life. We are here on this forum to find others who understand that. But to desire these bags to the point where one is agonizing, experiencing actual stress and unhappiness and turmoil (I remember posts from the past where there was a literal argument on how it’s affecting their mental health…), like that’s a bit too much even though I loooove these bags. I don’t think I’d ever understand that…and I’d like to keep it that way so I won’t ever experience it. (ETA: I’m not saying you can’t ever be unhappy / anxious / ecstatic etc about your bag offers or lack thereof, definitely understand and do that myself, but I think if you’ve been around the forum long enough you see there are…severity levels…not to mention some IRL situations I’ve seen…)

There’s also maybe some difference in what people are wanting this thread to be - it is not for emotional support / venting chamber / encouragement only. I see people wanting to help others and explaining how things work. Which, I feel like none of us actually love that’s how it works, but that doesn’t change that it is. At the end of the day, business wants to have clients who will spend more money.

 

[maxroxxherhandbags]

OK. But, let's be honest. H is the best known for its leather bags, not RTW, not furniture, not watches nor jewelry. (This then also makes sense we all crave for the bags from H. Ask people this question: If you have no item from H and you can only have one item from H, what would that be? 95% will say a quota bag and 3% will say a non-quota bag. lol Ok, it's just my guess.)

For watches or jewelry, H is not the top players as there are other top-tier brands that easily beat H. Not furniture either. For women's RTW? In Asia, it is a common sense that "Chanel >>>> H for women's RTW".

PS, If H is not known for its leather bags, would H be where it is now? I don't think so. lol (H knows it and their strategy of SA relationship [or, read it as "pre-spending"] works finally so that they can sell other products before selling their leather bags.)

PS2, The moderator may delete my post because it's not relevant to the topic. Oh, well...

I'm the 3% which is why I turned down the opportunity to place a wish at my store...

 

[textilegirl]

Nobody needs a 10000$ bag just to hold stuff. No matter how well made (leather, craftsmanship) or good looking it is. By virtue of shopping for that bag we are not just looking for a handbag but also what it has associated with it. Literally it’s intrinsically got gates that are sky high for 99% of the population. (I mean…wanna talk about how H shoppers like to look down on other luxury handbag brands’ shoppers?)

And yes I am saying all that as I’m shopping for these bags. It’s ok! We can enjoy things in life. We are here on this forum to find others who understand that. But to desire these bags to the point where one is agonizing, experiencing actual stress and unhappiness and turmoil (I remember posts from the past where there was a literal argument on how it’s affecting their mental health…), like that’s a bit too much even though I loooove these bags. I don’t think I’d ever understand that…and I’d like to keep it that way so I won’t ever experience it. (ETA: I’m not saying you can’t ever be unhappy / anxious / ecstatic etc about your bag offers or lack thereof, definitely understand and do that myself, but I think if you’ve been around the forum long enough you see there are…severity levels…not to mention some IRL situations I’ve seen…)

There’s also maybe some difference in what people are wanting this thread to be - it is not for emotional support / venting chamber / encouragement only. I see people wanting to help others and explaining how things work. Which, I feel like none of us actually love that’s how it works, but that doesn’t change that it is. At the end of the day, business wants to have clients who will spend more money.

This.

 

[Veritybelle]

OK. But, let's be honest. H is the best known for its leather bags, not RTW, not furniture, not watches nor jewelry. (This then also makes sense we all crave for the bags from H. Ask people this question: If you have no item from H and you can only have one item from H, what would that be? 95% will say a quota bag and 3% will say a non-quota bag. lol Ok, it's just my guess.)

For watches or jewelry, H is not the top players as there are other top-tier brands that easily beat H. Not furniture either. For women's RTW? In Asia, it is a common sense that "Chanel >>>> H for women's RTW".

PS, If H is not known for its leather bags, would H be where it is now? I don't think so. lol (H knows it and their strategy of SA relationship [or, read it as "pre-spending"] works finally so that they can sell other products before selling their leather bags.)

PS2, The moderator may delete my post because it's not relevant to the topic. Oh, well...

I agree with this. Hermès is renowned for leather and maybe silks (and maybe equestrian still, but I have no experience there). The luxury consumer market regards H bags as standing in a class of their own in comparison to other luxury options (I'm excluding bespoke makers here). I don't think that can be said about any other H product. IMHO, even though it offers some very nice things, it is not pre-eminent in other métiers, and unlike bags, those products don't sell themselves. To me this is evidenced by the mere fact that SAs need to encourage exploration of other métiers as part of newer clients building a relationship and working up to a bag.

ETA: The thing I find confusing in other métiers is the difficulty of sourcing the product. For example, if you are trying to position your homewares as pre-eminent, you shouldn't be making it so difficult for committed clients to complete china or crystal sets. I'd never embark on building a collection of anything without knowing I would be able to acquire all the pieces I want, so I just don't go there, and I limit myself to homeware items that are "one-offs" (ie not part of an incomplete set). If you are serious about shoes, you need to carry sizes across the full range of colours and styles you choose to stock. These are lost opportunities for Hermès. The H practice of individual stores curating their inventory makes this worse. To stay on topic, I have some sympathy for the SA who wants to consolidate relationships with clients and keep loyal clients happy, but is unable to source the products those clients would like to buy.