Maintaining an H relationship

[papertiger]

Please focus on the title of this thread rather than each other, TY

If you find it very hard to ignore certain people, please feel free in adding them to your 'Ignore' list.

For advice on how to obtain a B/K/C please go to the reading room in the Reading Room The Newbie's HOW DO I GET A BIRKIN (or other bag) Reading Room

For advice on how to shop at your local store please do a search in Hermes Shopping sub-forum and look for your store/region/country.

 

[Angiebbb]

This is a tough one. Sadly, I consider exotic Cs in the category of what I call “sucker bags” for people actually on the hunt for quota bags. They are mega expensive and don’t retain their value/often can be bought for less on resale. They are presented as though a huge favor to the client but in actuality are nearly impossible to sell and the SA receives commission (which on a $45k bag is pretty decent) so you are actually doing a favor to the store. BUT it is also seen as satisfying the client so can put you at a lower priority for a QB. I also agree with your friend that buying it put you into the much smaller category of “people we can force exotics onto” which also lowers your priority in the waitlist for non exotic bags “lets offer this to Susan because Betty might be willing to take a croc instead and I know Susan absolutely will not!” The bigger problem is that any store you switch to, will see all of this on your profile so your problems will just follow you, but starting at zero. I’d stay the course with the local store but let them miss you for a while and take you seriously that you don’t want to shop until you get the QB (I’m assuming you are asking for a somewhat normal QB and not a very specific mini K or LE bag).

Thank you so much, I really appreciate that. I could have paid 50 percent less in France for example at the store and I would never ask for that bag. I know I did them a favor, and they know I am well aware that I was not looking for that. What I find very upsetting is that the SA knows really well I travel abroad a lot (at least half a year) and he didn’t disclose to me that I need a permit to get out of the country and return to the country etc. it is a very big deal - you need a permit to leave the US, a permit from your destination, and permits in and out to get back. When I brought it to his attention, he changed subject and offered a sweater for me to try. I tried to approach the matter again and he felt uneasy and after that exchange in store didn’t answer me anymore after I asked about a QB. I also asked about another 4 products and nothing. He told one of his colleagues, who met my husband, that I bought the bag. I found that wholly inappropriate. The same person then told my husband - “she is profiled like a big spender now, but they won’t offer her any bags until the end of the year. If she didn’t want it, she should have said no and wait around.” When I spoke to the manager bc now no one knows how to get the permits to travel abroad and I was trying to sort that out with the person, the manager wanted to know who had told my husband that and said it wasn’t true. Of course I wouldn’t say the source. Now you probably understand why I am upset about the whole situation. The SA only told me I needed a permit to travel with the bag after I paid. The manager said he could get authorization to refund me, but my mom said she will keep the bag bc she doesn’t want me to be stressed out about this.

 

[Deleted 793791]

@Angiebbb - So, what's your wish for QBs? Which bag do you hope to get?

 

[FrenchNewbie]

Thank you so much, I really appreciate that. I could have paid 50 percent less in France for example at the store and I would never ask for that bag. I know I did them a favor, and they know I am well aware that I was not looking for that. What I find very upsetting is that the SA knows really well I travel abroad a lot (at least half a year) and he didn’t disclose to me that I need a permit to get out of the country and return to the country etc. it is a very big deal - you need a permit to leave the US, a permit from your destination, and permits in and out to get back. When I brought it to his attention, he changed subject and offered a sweater for me to try. I tried to approach the matter again and he felt uneasy and after that exchange in store didn’t answer me anymore after I asked about a QB. I also asked about another 4 products and nothing. He told one of his colleagues, who met my husband, that I bought the bag. I found that wholly inappropriate. The same person then told my husband - “she is profiled like a big spender now, but they won’t offer her any bags until the end of the year. If she didn’t want it, she should have said no and wait around.” When I spoke to the manager bc now no one knows how to get the permits to travel abroad and I was trying to sort that out with the person, the manager wanted to know who had told my husband that and said it wasn’t true. Of course I wouldn’t say the source. Now you probably understand why I am upset about the whole situation. The SA only told me I needed a permit to travel with the bag after I paid. The manager said he could get authorization to refund me, but my mom said she will keep the bag bc she doesn’t want me to be stressed out about this.

I am confused: so you bought an exotic Constance here in the US and the SA who sold you the bag didn't give you the CITES certificate (and now he is either saying you don't need it or avoiding the subject altogether)?
Is that correct, or am I misunderstanding...?

Every exotic should come with CITES documentation, and should be provided at the time of purchase; if they didn't provide it (or don't have record of it), that is a serious issue.

I can see how this is all frustrating for you; seems one issue is exacerbating another.

 

[acrowcounted]

Thank you so much, I really appreciate that. I could have paid 50 percent less in France for example at the store and I would never ask for that bag. I know I did them a favor, and they know I am well aware that I was not looking for that. What I find very upsetting is that the SA knows really well I travel abroad a lot (at least half a year) and he didn’t disclose to me that I need a permit to get out of the country and return to the country etc. it is a very big deal - you need a permit to leave the US, a permit from your destination, and permits in and out to get back. When I brought it to his attention, he changed subject and offered a sweater for me to try. I tried to approach the matter again and he felt uneasy and after that exchange in store didn’t answer me anymore after I asked about a QB. I also asked about another 4 products and nothing. He told one of his colleagues, who met my husband, that I bought the bag. I found that wholly inappropriate. The same person then told my husband - “she is profiled like a big spender now, but they won’t offer her any bags until the end of the year. If she didn’t want it, she should have said no and wait around.” When I spoke to the manager bc now no one knows how to get the permits to travel abroad and I was trying to sort that out with the person, the manager wanted to know who had told my husband that and said it wasn’t true. Of course I wouldn’t say the source. Now you probably understand why I am upset about the whole situation. The SA only told me I needed a permit to travel with the bag after I paid. The manager said he could get authorization to refund me, but my mom said she will keep the bag bc she doesn’t want me to be stressed out about this.

You should just need the CITES certificate to travel with the bag. It’s annoying but not THAT big of a deal (but admittedly not something I would personally want to be bothered with either.) Honestly, it sounds like there is a lot of bad blood here and I would step away and shop outside of the US only. Perhaps your store will offer you something to lure you back in after a bit of silence, or perhaps not. Regardless, you wouldn’t be throwing good money after bad. Also if the C was recent enough to still be within the return window, it is very very unlikely to be offered another bag so soon (summer is actually reasonable).

 

[Veritybelle]

I think we all need to remember that prespend has never been confirmed by Hermes as a necessary factor for being offered a QB.

And they never will because it would be an antitrust law nightmare in numerous jurisdictions around the world, plus it would turbocharge the bribery risk.

 

[HermesHabit]

And they never will because it would be an antitrust law nightmare in numerous jurisdictions around the world, plus it would turbocharge the bribery risk.

Of course - my point was more that I feel the prespend aspect is overhyped on this forum. We are all just working off information shared here and assuming that it is 100% correct. My comments are U.S. and Europe specific - I haven’t shopped in Asia. I received a quota bag in Paris with no prespend at all and I have not felt any such pressure in the U.S. either. I think people would like to have a confirmed path to a QB, and prespend of x would offer some certainty, but the truth is that there is no certainty. If people bear that in mind and only purchase what they like then there won’t be as many posts from people that feel swindled by SAs. I think it’s fair for SAs to just assume people are buying what they like if they haven’t shared some sort of method of “playing the system”.

 

[Angiebbb]

You should just need the CITES certificate to travel with the bag. It’s annoying but not THAT big of a deal (but admittedly not something I would personally want to be bothered with either.) Honestly, it sounds like there is a lot of bad blood here and I would step away and shop outside of the US only. Perhaps your store will offer you something to lure you back in after a bit of silence, or perhaps not. Regardless, you wouldn’t be throwing good money after bad. Also if the C was recent enough to still be within the return window, it is very very unlikely to be offered another bag so soon (summer is actually reasonable).

That is not what it is unfortunately. cITES just means the skin was approved to get to you where you bought the bag. So if you are in the U.S. and got the bag in the US, your CITES is just valid for traveling in the US. If you want to go to Europe or Azerbaijan, you are going to have to apply for and export permit from the US to Europe or Azerbaijan, then you need an import permit from Europe or Azerbaijan, so you are able to travel abroad with your bag once after those are approved. I spent 5 hours on the phone today with US wildlife and other countries and that is what I heard. They will confiscate your bag with no recourse and destroy it if you do not have an import and export permit. It is quite serious and it is for the individual only.

 

[Veritybelle]

That is not what it is unfortunately. cITES just means the skin was approved to get to you where you bought the bag. So if you are in the U.S. and got the bag in the US, your CITES is just valid for traveling in the US. If you want to go to Europe or Azerbaijan, you are going to have to apply for and export permit from the US to Europe or Azerbaijan, then you need an import permit from Europe or Azerbaijan, so you are able to travel abroad with your bag once after those are approved. I spent 5 hours on the phone today with US wildlife and other countries and that is what I heard. They will confiscate your bag with no recourse and destroy it if you do not have an import and export permit. It is quite serious and it is for the individual only.

I may be wrong - please correct me if so - but I think CITES have a limited time validity too? I think I've seen 6 months for a bangle with exotics. Travelling with exotics would be too much administrative hassle for me!

 

[Angiebbb]

Yes, I spend 5 hours on the phone today with officers from wildlife in the US and two other countries, and the permit is just valid for one time use within 6 months to one year depending on the country. According to US wildlife, they will generally just issue the export permit if you already have the import permit from the destination contry approved. It is a major hassle. Everything is a one time use, and if you do not have the permit on your name they will confiscate and destroy the bag.

 

[Angiebbb]

@Angiebbb - So, what's your wish for QBs? Which bag do you hope to get?

Noting in particular, no neutrals or anything, right now I have many colors in 25 and mini, so my wishlist is very broad. I just mentioned the colors I already have, so not looking for anything super wished for in any particular color. I am just obsessed with having all colors of the same item, so imagine how broad and easy to fulfill it is. Now I can even broad it up to other sizes, so I am not strict about it.

 

[Angiebbb]

Clients wanting & feeling appreciation is becoming more of a topic of discussion than I can remember
There are no right answers because it is a brand that is highly coveted by many be it a new client
or a client with a history with the brand that also has high expectations for their items & their spend
is different from yours. Spending should not be the only consideration, but unfortunately it is
At the end of the day, you are the client. You should be valued & appreciated. You should also understand
that SA's just don't always have the access or the answers we expect & that in its own way is off putting &
more challenging than it should be.
I also would not feel that I am stuck with this SA.. perhaps going into another store would be an option
to explore to see. I wouldn't share too much about your other SA, just sort of feel if you connect with someone
else.
If nothing is urgent on your to buy list, why not just take a time out & re-evaluate how you are feeling
in a few weeks/months

Thank you so much. We started a new relationship at another store with a new SA under my husband’s name and he has been so nice and available, so I know that even if it doesn’t depend on him, he will do his best. He even told me - I am sorry you were treated this way at another store, you are really Ms. Hermes, look at your attire and everything you know about the products.

 

[Angiebbb]

I am confused: so you bought an exotic Constance here in the US and the SA who sold you the bag didn't give you the CITES certificate (and now he is either saying you don't need it or avoiding the subject altogether)?
Is that correct, or am I misunderstanding...?

Every exotic should come with CITES documentation, and should be provided at the time of purchase; if they didn't provide it (or don't have record of it), that is a serious issue.

I can see how this is all frustrating for you; seems one issue is exacerbating another.

CITES doesn’t serve for anything. It is just a statement that the skin of
The bag you bought is allowed in the country you bought it. If you travel outside your country with it, you need an export permit to take it out of the country, an import permit to take it to x country and another export permit to bring it back. All one time use under your name. It is disturbing no one explains that to us, but I got into the weeds of it. I can guarantee you what I am saying to you is correct. CITES for bracelets they might not care and accept it, but with bags they will most likely confiscate and destroy it if you do not have import and export permits.

 

[DB8]

I have a questions regarding what to do about SA and a store in particular. I spent 45k plus and have been waiting for a QB for 15 months. Took 2 non QB in the meanwhile. I mentioned to the SA that now I would like to wait for a QB before buying other items that I am interested in. I asked for one item that I needed now and radio silence. The SA had promised a bag would arrive for me soon but then started acting strange when I approached the subject. I went to the store, I talked to the person’s manager. “Nothing is guaranteed, everyone is waiting…” You know, the same story. Then started saying maybe during summer a bag , or the end of year. I mentioned I thought it would be a good idea to switch associates. The person mentioned that I’ve been a year with the SA, that should keep the same. If I wanted another one, should be mindful that this new SA would have his/her own clients. To say I was disappointed with the treatment I received is an understatement after dropping 45k there. The SA’s manager mentioned he would tell the SA to keep an eye out for the bag. As everyone is well aware, there are always bags available. I don’t feel like contacting the SA to order anything from him (who knows if he would reply) nor to keep coming to ask if the bag arrived. At the same time, I don’t want to lose 45k prespend there. Honestly, I just feel they will string me along. A friend suggested I should return my last big purchase to another store and buy everything again with an SA that is nice to me. Another suggested I should pass or text every two weeks to check on the bag. Also, send one small thing here and there to this SA that I am stuck with saying I want it and just get that small thing and follow up on the bag. If this SA doesn’t reply, that I should go to the store manager. What do you suggest I do in this situation?

Thank you so much. They know that is not the case bc I have been a shopper outside the U.S. for almost 10 years and I have lots of products from all categories you can imagine. I spent almost 50k in 9 months and barely went to the store bc I spend a lot of time abroad. I have a few QBs from outside the U.S. In all honesty, spending in the U.S. is not worth for me unless I get items that I cannot find outside the country and I do not get QBs, or if I need to buy last gifts. It is more convenient for me now bc I live in the US, but I have always been very kind and honest and the SA knows I love the brand. In my case in particular I think I was just unlucky with the SA and I am stuck with the person. My wishlist is broad, so they could have found me a bag if they wanted to. What is important to me is that my business is appreciated, and it is now clear to me it is not. The way I see is - if they appreciate someone’s business they will offer a bag the person truly wants. But dropping plus than 30k in a visit and then not hearing back when I asked for another item (which I needed right then) just because I asked if a bag arrived for me I don’t think it is ok. That is basic customer service. I work hard for my money so it is important to me to feel the appreciation. For example, I always go to the same glasses store, and the owner yesterday told me - thanks for coming back to us, we truly appreciate your business. Thank you so much for all your help, I truly appreciate it. What would you do if you were me? Would you just drop this store and move on and research well the next store or just wait around for a couple of months? I have things to buy, but nothing is urgent. Thank you so much for all your help. ❤️

I think in the US how much you spend counts a lot. In a lot of countries SAs do not work on commission, so I think relationship matters more in those countries. I also think in the US they see how much they can get away with. I am not talking about clients that have been shopping in the US for long, because those get offered multiple bags a year even if they don’t spend much.

A few things: Your mistake was constantly going to the manager thinking you would get what you want by doing so. In reality, this is a strike against you. The manager has identified you as a problematic client who is going to complain non stop if things don't go your way. I can only imagine how the conversation went - "I spend $45,000 gimme my bag!"

You keep mentioning 'how much i've spent', 'i've spent this much.' Honestly, $45,000 after 15+ months AND 2 non QB isn't high in the Hermes world. It's quite typical spend, actually. Especially in NYC, where people can and will spend 6 figures on a whim but not expect anything in return. I think you need to adjust your expectations. It sounds like you've succeeded in obtaining QB's (with less spend) from a country where they're more upfront regarding the path towards a QB. Perhaps you should maintain that previous relationship instead.

You mentioned "My wishlist is broad, so they could have found me a bag if they wanted to." That's absolutely true. If you didn't constantly make shopping contingent on a bag offer, or go to the manager complaining about everything, you probably would have your bag by now. Hermes absolutely does reward (lower spend) clients who are nice, drama free and not demanding of QB's.

Clients are never in the drivers seat at Hermes. You are never guaranteed or promised anything from H, except the items you paid for and physically carry out of the store. I've said in previous posts that you never want to be that client that is obviously angling for a QB, because SA's pick up on the desperation/eagerness and sell (as that is their profession). On the flip side, no one held a gun to you saying you have to buy X Y Z today. What you spent and what you got for your money is all on you.

My take: You need to take a break from your store, but I think your home store is done with you. IF you get an offer, it'll be a 'lets offer this person a bag so they don't ever bug us again.'

Edit: and unless you temper/recalibrate your expectations re Hermes in North America, no matter what store you shop at, you'll run into the same issues over and over.

 

[Deleted 793791]

@DB8 - I appreciate your critical evaluation. But, I also have different impressions. To me, I hope that @Angiebbb 's experience and/or relationship with her SA may not be that bad.

In my case, I actually have never had/caused any negative issue (at least in real interactions) with my SA or with my home store, Madison Maison. However, it is true that I got upset and frustrated occasionally. For this reason, I had previously written pretty negative experiences against my SA on this Forum (just like @Angiebbb did). Then.... I got a lot of critiques from multiple TPFers (like yours) that were not even "true" (unfortunately). I was merely putting my doubts, negative impressions, etc. on this Forum even though nothing happened between myself and my SA (or the store). Benefits of my posts? I learned what others would do if they were in my shoes. I learned how to re-align my expectations. I learned how H operates. I learned my negative emotions were just transient (if not, I learned how to re-evaluate my goals, etc.)

I guess what I am saying here is this: It is possible that some people can get upset or frustrated in their recent visits, and express their feelings, experiences, etc. on this Forum, even if their actual relationship with the SA may be just fine (or nothing has happened). Critique like yours is also needed to re-evaluate the situations, re-align expectations, etc. I also learned that writing on here is sometimes limited and may not convey all the information needed to assess the full story, etc.

Anyway, I think we are active on this Forum because we all love H. I hope good things happen to everyone, including @Angiebbb.

 

[Angiebbb]

I heard from US wildlife that they don’t care much about bracelets, but that bags are a big deal and get confiscated if you don’t have the permit for import/export. cITES Hermes give you is not valid for travel. It just means the skin was legally imported. You need to apply for permits afterwards in and out of the US if you leave the country.

A few things: Your mistake was constantly going to the manager thinking you would get what you want by doing so. In reality, this is a strike against you. The manager has identified you as a problematic client who is going to complain non stop if things don't go your way. I can only imagine how the conversation went - "I spend $45,000 gimme my bag!"

You keep mentioning 'how much i've spent', 'i've spent this much.' Honestly, $45,000 after 15+ months AND 2 non QB isn't high in the Hermes world. It's quite typical spend, actually. Especially in NYC, where people can and will spend 6 figures on a whim but not expect anything in return. I think you need to adjust your expectations. It sounds like you've succeeded in obtaining QB's (with less spend) from a country where they're more upfront regarding the path towards a QB. Perhaps you should maintain that previous relationship instead.

You mentioned "My wishlist is broad, so they could have found me a bag if they wanted to." That's absolutely true. If you didn't constantly make shopping contingent on a bag offer, or go to the manager complaining about everything, you probably would have your bag by now. Hermes absolutely does reward (lower spend) clients who are nice, drama free and not demanding of QB's.

Clients are never in the drivers seat at Hermes. You are never guaranteed or promised anything from H, except the items you paid for and physically carry out of the store. I've said in previous posts that you never want to be that client that is obviously angling for a QB, because SA's pick up on the desperation/eagerness and sell (as that is their profession). On the flip side, no one held a gun to you saying you have to buy X Y Z today. What you spent and what you got for your money is all on you.

My take: You need to take a break from your store, but I think your home store is done with you. IF you get an offer, it'll be a 'lets offer this person a bag so they don't ever bug us again.'

Edit: and unless you temper/recalibrate your expectations re Hermes in North America, no matter what store you shop at, you'll run into the same issues over and

A few things: Your mistake was constantly going to the manager thinking you would get what you want by doing so. In reality, this is a strike against you. The manager has identified you as a problematic client who is going to complain non stop if things don't go your way. I can only imagine how the conversation went - "I spend $45,000 gimme my bag!"

You keep mentioning 'how much i've spent', 'i've spent this much.' Honestly, $45,000 after 15+ months AND 2 non QB isn't high in the Hermes world. It's quite typical spend, actually. Especially in NYC, where people can and will spend 6 figures on a whim but not expect anything in return. I think you need to adjust your expectations. It sounds like you've succeeded in obtaining QB's (with less spend) from a country where they're more upfront regarding the path towards a QB. Perhaps you should maintain that previous relationship instead.

You mentioned "My wishlist is broad, so they could have found me a bag if they wanted to." That's absolutely true. If you didn't constantly make shopping contingent on a bag offer, or go to the manager complaining about everything, you probably would have your bag by now. Hermes absolutely does reward (lower spend) clients who are nice, drama free and not demanding of QB's.

Clients are never in the drivers seat at Hermes. You are never guaranteed or promised anything from H, except the items you paid for and physically carry out of the store. I've said in previous posts that you never want to be that client that is obviously angling for a QB, because SA's pick up on the desperation/eagerness and sell (as that is their profession). On the flip side, no one held a gun to you saying you have to buy X Y Z today. What you spent and what you got for your money is all on you.

My take: You need to take a break from your store, but I think your home store is done with you. IF you get an offer, it'll be a 'lets offer this person a bag so they don't ever bug us again.'

Edit: and unless you temper/recalibrate your expectations re Hermes in North America, no matter what store you shop at, you'll run into the same issues over and over.

I don’t think you read my post correctly. I just went to the manager once asking him to help me learn more about the permit bc that was not disclosed to me before buying the bag. Then very politely I addressed the subject. I am not committing any crime nor getting anything for free. The SA specifically told me if I got this bag that I hadn’t asked for it would not count against me. I spent 45k plus in 2-3 trip to the store in 9 months. I was away for many months. I don’t come by every month or time or check in to buy just sandals for example. I am just asking for opinion - not everyone has a rich family or husband. I work two jobs round the clock for what I make, and I do pretty well. All my merit. That said, I value the money I spend, and for me it is important that even if I drop little money here and there, that that money is appreciated and that I am respected and not treated badly or made a fool of. If you know I travel 6 months out of the year, you shouldn’t show me something I didn’t ask for that requires a permit, and hide that from me until I had already paid for the purchase. I don’t think you should pass judgement of how much money I spend abroad, because if I am treated well, money flows. Honestly, I have never heard of a Hermes client that drops hundreds of thousands without wanting QBs. 45k+ was in 9 months, and I believe for most people that is a good amount of money to drop in 2-3 visits. And I was actually promised a bag would arrive by the SA.