LV 2023 Collections

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Pardon me, but that's not what Tanner Leatherstein said at all. Top grain does not at all equal top quality. Top grain just means the top layer of the leather is shaved, buffed, or sanded off.

He actually says epi feels plasticky and is a heavy corrective finish and often uses low-grade leather because finishes like they use on epi cover up the imperfections.


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I did comment under one of his cr*p videos, but I believe I can reach all the right people here. So please let me debunk this nonsense.

So... here is an Alma made from VVN leather and a Pochette Voyage from black Épi. Both photos are official press photos from the website with 0 Photoshop. I just zoomed in.
So the VVN of the Alma is a pure, absolutely natural, vegetable tanned full grain cowhide, it is the topmost layer of the skin, and after the tanning it is totally untreated. This is why it is so delicate and porosus. It gets dark with time from light and hand oils, you all know the drill. The key aspect that I highlighted are the pores that you can clearly see from up close. THAT is a very high quality leather my friends. But people can ask, where are the "grains" if it is full grain? The grain of the Taurillon or Togo comes from an extra step in the tanning process, the leather by default is just like ours.

Let's get to the Épi. It is a HEAVILY treated leather: deep dyed, pressed with the wavy pattern (I call them dunes) and then they apply a thin paint layer onto the top of the dunes to create a duo-tone effect. Sometimes the colour of these are quite contrasting and make the depth effect extra pronounced (like on the Honey Gold colour) or they almost blend perfectly (like on Coquelicot). They usually skip this last step on the Men's line items, so they are more matte looking, but most Women's stuff get this extra finishing touch. So all in all, this is a heavily treated leather, but that is the point of this line. To be extremely durable and weather resistant.
And the key question is: what kinda leather they are treating this heavily? Yes, the exact same leather that the Alma has. Spoiler: see the pores.

Leather is not rare at all, and Vuitton can easily source only the highest quality cowhides for themselves. They don't need to use tricks to hide imperfections and use lower quality leather. You can ask: why is not everything made of Nomade and Taurillon then? Durability. People need tough work horse bags, weather resistant bags, bags that will looks just as nice after 10-15 years. Épi bags, Taïga bags are doing just that. And since they are super durable, they are easier to work with. They won't get scratched up in the factory while they are being sewn together. Less likely to get damaged during transport or in the store while people are checking them out on the shelves. That's it. It is just safer and easier in every sense. That is why Épi costs less than Taurillon or Millesime. Not because it is a cr*p leather pressed with a plastic coating (which never was the case).
And also they needed to build a hierarchy of good-better-best for the leathers, and they chose that the more natural finish it has, the more expensive it will be. But it could have gone the other way around too.

VVN-vs-Epi.jpg

Disclaimer: he is a nice guy, he just wants to build his channels as quickly as possible, and he chose to bash luxury brands without any proper research or knowledge about high leathercraft. Probably very entertaining to people who never touched a Vuitton and love the simple "expensive bags = all cheap, rich people = idiots" message. He is an amateur and his bags are lightyears behind what Peter Nitz or any of the high-end indie craftsmen make. If Peter talks sh*t about even Hermès messing up their bags, he is legit, but this guy has 0 credibility when it comes to haute maroquinerie.
But to be honest, I enjoy seeing these bags getting disassembled nonetheless, so exciting to see the anatomy of them. It would be just way better to watch them without all the misinformation that gets told during the videos.
 
Thank you @BULL , really appreciate your in-depth explanation. I was looking at my vintage epi speedy 30 earlier and thinking... hmm.... low grade leather, darn it! Happier to know it's still good quality leather, but just heavily treated (which is, actually, more suited to my lifestyle. I don't prefer to baby my bags, and need them to withstand heavy use).
 
I did comment under one of his cr*p videos, but I believe I can reach all the right people here. So please let me debunk this nonsense.

So... here is an Alma made from VVN leather and a Pochette Voyage from black Épi. Both photos are official press photos from the website with 0 Photoshop. I just zoomed in.
So the VVN of the Alma is a pure, absolutely natural, vegetable tanned full grain cowhide, it is the topmost layer of the skin, and after the tanning it is totally untreated. This is why it is so delicate and porosus. It gets dark with time from light and hand oils, you all know the drill. The key aspect that I highlighted are the pores that you can clearly see from up close. THAT is a very high quality leather my friends. But people can ask, where are the "grains" if it is full grain? The grain of the Taurillon or Togo comes from an extra step in the tanning process, the leather by default is just like ours.

Let's get to the Épi. It is a HEAVILY treated leather: deep dyed, pressed with the wavy pattern (I call them dunes) and then they apply a thin paint layer onto the top of the dunes to create a duo-tone effect. Sometimes the colour of these are quite contrasting and make the depth effect extra pronounced (like on the Honey Gold colour) or they almost blend perfectly (like on Coquelicot). They usually skip this last step on the Men's line items, so they are more matte looking, but most Women's stuff get this extra finishing touch. So all in all, this is a heavily treated leather, but that is the point of this line. To be extremely durable and weather resistant.
And the key question is: what kinda leather they are treating this heavily? Yes, the exact same leather that the Alma has. Spoiler: see the pores.

Leather is not rare at all, and Vuitton can easily source only the highest quality cowhides for themselves. They don't need to use tricks to hide imperfections and use lower quality leather. You can ask: why is not everything made of Nomade and Taurillon then? Durability. People need tough work horse bags, weather resistant bags, bags that will looks just as nice after 10-15 years. Épi bags, Taïga bags are doing just that. And since they are super durable, they are easier to work with. They won't get scratched up in the factory while they are being sewn together. Less likely to get damaged during transport or in the store while people are checking them out on the shelves. That's it. It is just safer and easier in every sense. That is why Épi costs less than Taurillon or Millesime. Not because it is a cr*p leather pressed with a plastic coating (which never was the case).
And also they needed to build a hierarchy of good-better-best for the leathers, and they chose that the more natural finish it has, the more expensive it will be. But it could have gone the other way around too.

View attachment 5705378

Disclaimer: he is a nice guy, he just wants to build his channels as quickly as possible, and he chose to bash luxury brands without any proper research or knowledge about high leathercraft. Probably very entertaining to people who never touched a Vuitton and love the simple "expensive bags = all cheap, rich people = idiots" message. He is an amateur and his bags are lightyears behind what Peter Nitz or any of the high-end indie craftsmen make. If Peter talks sh*t about even Hermès messing up their bags, he is legit, but this guy has 0 credibility when it comes to haute maroquinerie.
But to be honest, I enjoy seeing these bags getting disassembled nonetheless, so exciting to see the anatomy of them. It would be just way better to watch them without all the misinformation that gets told during the videos.
Thank you!! I've gotten so many people talking this man up as some sort of leather expert, and I agree with all your points about him. Definitely not the expert he portrays himself as.

(Plus he just recently put out a video where he said Teddy Blake bags are "worth the money." Over $400 for what he admits is essentially bonded leather. I'm supposed to think this guy is credible??)
 
I did comment under one of his cr*p videos, but I believe I can reach all the right people here. So please let me debunk this nonsense.

So... here is an Alma made from VVN leather and a Pochette Voyage from black Épi. Both photos are official press photos from the website with 0 Photoshop. I just zoomed in.
So the VVN of the Alma is a pure, absolutely natural, vegetable tanned full grain cowhide, it is the topmost layer of the skin, and after the tanning it is totally untreated. This is why it is so delicate and porosus. It gets dark with time from light and hand oils, you all know the drill. The key aspect that I highlighted are the pores that you can clearly see from up close. THAT is a very high quality leather my friends. But people can ask, where are the "grains" if it is full grain? The grain of the Taurillon or Togo comes from an extra step in the tanning process, the leather by default is just like ours.

Let's get to the Épi. It is a HEAVILY treated leather: deep dyed, pressed with the wavy pattern (I call them dunes) and then they apply a thin paint layer onto the top of the dunes to create a duo-tone effect. Sometimes the colour of these are quite contrasting and make the depth effect extra pronounced (like on the Honey Gold colour) or they almost blend perfectly (like on Coquelicot). They usually skip this last step on the Men's line items, so they are more matte looking, but most Women's stuff get this extra finishing touch. So all in all, this is a heavily treated leather, but that is the point of this line. To be extremely durable and weather resistant.
And the key question is: what kinda leather they are treating this heavily? Yes, the exact same leather that the Alma has. Spoiler: see the pores.

Leather is not rare at all, and Vuitton can easily source only the highest quality cowhides for themselves. They don't need to use tricks to hide imperfections and use lower quality leather. You can ask: why is not everything made of Nomade and Taurillon then? Durability. People need tough work horse bags, weather resistant bags, bags that will looks just as nice after 10-15 years. Épi bags, Taïga bags are doing just that. And since they are super durable, they are easier to work with. They won't get scratched up in the factory while they are being sewn together. Less likely to get damaged during transport or in the store while people are checking them out on the shelves. That's it. It is just safer and easier in every sense. That is why Épi costs less than Taurillon or Millesime. Not because it is a cr*p leather pressed with a plastic coating (which never was the case).
And also they needed to build a hierarchy of good-better-best for the leathers, and they chose that the more natural finish it has, the more expensive it will be. But it could have gone the other way around too.

View attachment 5705378

Disclaimer: he is a nice guy, he just wants to build his channels as quickly as possible, and he chose to bash luxury brands without any proper research or knowledge about high leathercraft. Probably very entertaining to people who never touched a Vuitton and love the simple "expensive bags = all cheap, rich people = idiots" message. He is an amateur and his bags are lightyears behind what Peter Nitz or any of the high-end indie craftsmen make. If Peter talks sh*t about even Hermès messing up their bags, he is legit, but this guy has 0 credibility when it comes to haute maroquinerie.
But to be honest, I enjoy seeing these bags getting disassembled nonetheless, so exciting to see the anatomy of them. It would be just way better to watch them without all the misinformation that gets told during the videos.
Oooof, that was long winded and laughably defensive.

It seems like the person you quoted was merely explaining what Tanner Leatherwhatever said in his video about epi and debunking claims that someone else made. I don't see him/her/they agreeing with what the video said.
 
Thank you!! I've gotten so many people talking this man up as some sort of leather expert, and I agree with all your points about him. Definitely not the expert he portrays himself as.

(Plus he just recently put out a video where he said Teddy Blake bags are "worth the money." Over $400 for what he admits is essentially bonded leather. I'm supposed to think this guy is credible??)
Yes, I saw that too. Unbelivable.
The worst was for me when he took apart the Porte Documents Voyage and made a half-LV half-him bag from it with some aged cowboy leather. That leather is OK at a village fare in the Midwest, but that is not high end.
And another fun fact about high-end leathers, if he considers a 400 USD bag super good. An entire hide of Taurillon grade leather can cost up to 7-800€ a piece. That makes the 4-5000€ price of a Capucines quite realistic. Yes, Vuitton still has a big profit on everything, but they are not selling Michael Kors leather.
 
Oooof, that was long winded and laughably defensive.

It seems like the person you quoted was merely explaining what Tanner Leatherwhatever said in his video about epi and debunking claims that someone else made. I don't see him/her/they agreeing with what the video said.
You clearly misunderstood. No need to stir drama, pls.

Very simple. The conversation between @TomMi39 and @ingenieux00 reminded me of the guy. I saw his videos the other day and they were full of misinformation. And I love providing long educational posts for the community here. That's all. Am I passionate about the topic? Yes. Was it an attack towards either of the guys or even the video maker? No. So please stop pretending to be offended on other people's behalf for no reason, that is not needed here. Thank you.
 
I did comment under one of his cr*p videos, but I believe I can reach all the right people here. So please let me debunk this nonsense.

So... here is an Alma made from VVN leather and a Pochette Voyage from black Épi. Both photos are official press photos from the website with 0 Photoshop. I just zoomed in.
So the VVN of the Alma is a pure, absolutely natural, vegetable tanned full grain cowhide, it is the topmost layer of the skin, and after the tanning it is totally untreated. This is why it is so delicate and porosus. It gets dark with time from light and hand oils, you all know the drill. The key aspect that I highlighted are the pores that you can clearly see from up close. THAT is a very high quality leather my friends. But people can ask, where are the "grains" if it is full grain? The grain of the Taurillon or Togo comes from an extra step in the tanning process, the leather by default is just like ours.

Let's get to the Épi. It is a HEAVILY treated leather: deep dyed, pressed with the wavy pattern (I call them dunes) and then they apply a thin paint layer onto the top of the dunes to create a duo-tone effect. Sometimes the colour of these are quite contrasting and make the depth effect extra pronounced (like on the Honey Gold colour) or they almost blend perfectly (like on Coquelicot). They usually skip this last step on the Men's line items, so they are more matte looking, but most Women's stuff get this extra finishing touch. So all in all, this is a heavily treated leather, but that is the point of this line. To be extremely durable and weather resistant.
And the key question is: what kinda leather they are treating this heavily? Yes, the exact same leather that the Alma has. Spoiler: see the pores.

Leather is not rare at all, and Vuitton can easily source only the highest quality cowhides for themselves. They don't need to use tricks to hide imperfections and use lower quality leather. You can ask: why is not everything made of Nomade and Taurillon then? Durability. People need tough work horse bags, weather resistant bags, bags that will looks just as nice after 10-15 years. Épi bags, Taïga bags are doing just that. And since they are super durable, they are easier to work with. They won't get scratched up in the factory while they are being sewn together. Less likely to get damaged during transport or in the store while people are checking them out on the shelves. That's it. It is just safer and easier in every sense. That is why Épi costs less than Taurillon or Millesime. Not because it is a cr*p leather pressed with a plastic coating (which never was the case).
And also they needed to build a hierarchy of good-better-best for the leathers, and they chose that the more natural finish it has, the more expensive it will be. But it could have gone the other way around too.

View attachment 5705378

Disclaimer: he is a nice guy, he just wants to build his channels as quickly as possible, and he chose to bash luxury brands without any proper research or knowledge about high leathercraft. Probably very entertaining to people who never touched a Vuitton and love the simple "expensive bags = all cheap, rich people = idiots" message. He is an amateur and his bags are lightyears behind what Peter Nitz or any of the high-end indie craftsmen make. If Peter talks sh*t about even Hermès messing up their bags, he is legit, but this guy has 0 credibility when it comes to haute maroquinerie.
But to be honest, I enjoy seeing these bags getting disassembled nonetheless, so exciting to see the anatomy of them. It would be just way better to watch them without all the misinformation that gets told during the videos.
May I know your credibility for discussing LV leather and craftsmanship in such detail? I’ve noticed you always have such information.
 
May I know your credibility for discussing LV leather and craftsmanship in such detail? I’ve noticed you always have such information.
Not a secret Vuitton agent, don't worry :D just a huge luxury nerd and leathercraft nerd here. And the leathercraft people have a vibrant community online, just as this one. They share tips, tricks, gossip, everything. Just an example: Hermès is very secretive about who they are sourcing the leather from, and also the tanneries are not allowed brag about it on their website. But informally everybody knows.
 
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