Interesting Article on Forbes on Coach Sinking North American Sales
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YES, a thousand times over! Coach has TOTALLY ignored the Plus-size market, including the fact that many of those women have bought Coach products for much of their adult life. Hey fellas, sorry we can't be all size 6's - believe me, most of us would if we could be but it's not as easy as you seem to think.
Not only are there no clothes for us, but even handbags are in short supply. Straps are too short and bags too small for many of us. Crossbody bags are available in hundreds of styles, but some plus size women think they're just too small and look strange on a larger woman since they all seem to be small or mini bags. Larger bags with longer TRUE crossbody straps please - A 35-inch long strap is NOT crossbody unless you're a hobbit!
Shoes? HOW ABOUT SOME WIDE WIDTHS, FOLKS???
Jewelry? Necklace lengths have been 18 inches, sometimes less, since the days of Noah, while the average American (and not just us!) sometimes finds that length too short. How about some options? Larger and longer bracelets? And especially how about some larger ring sizes? Major US jewelry makers like James Avery have had a range of sizes up to 10 for years now, why doesn't Coach?
OK, another rant over. Not that Coach will ever listen. Or care.
YES, a thousand times over! Coach has TOTALLY ignored the Plus-size market, including the fact that many of those women have bought Coach products for much of their adult life. Hey fellas, sorry we can't be all size 6's - believe me, most of us would if we could be but it's not as easy as you seem to think.
Not only are there no clothes for us, but even handbags are in short supply. Straps are too short and bags too small for many of us. Crossbody bags are available in hundreds of styles, but some plus size women think they're just too small and look strange on a larger woman since they all seem to be small or mini bags. Larger bags with longer TRUE crossbody straps please - A 35-inch long strap is NOT crossbody unless you're a hobbit!
Shoes? HOW ABOUT SOME WIDE WIDTHS, FOLKS???
Jewelry? Necklace lengths have been 18 inches, sometimes less, since the days of Noah, while the average American (and not just us!) sometimes finds that length too short. How about some options? Larger and longer bracelets? And especially how about some larger ring sizes? Major US jewelry makers like James Avery have had a range of sizes up to 10 for years now, why doesn't Coach?
OK, another rant over. Not that Coach will ever listen. Or care.
I agree. Why is the plus size market woefully underrepresented? C'mon Coach!
It has been a lot of fun reading everyone's opinions and ideas. Coach's North American sales have been slipping for a while. It feels like their profits were temporarily inflated by the huge glut of Legacy bags at the outlet and FOS last year. They have more competition in the mid market level than ever before.
Remember when Coach called themselves Coach Leatherware? I feel like that is who they are, a leather goods company born in NYC.
Just a consolidation of some ideas on this thread and some of my own:
1-Hire someone who can sort out this electronic communications fiasco. People who sign up
for emails should be able to receive them! Instead of excluding people from FOS just place more stringent limits on the deletes/clearance section.
2-If you want to be seen as a quality company stop overproducing product. There are too many style/color offerings each season.It's inevitable that a lot will go unsold and get dumped at the outlets. Offer yearly or biyearly sales in the FP boutique or Coach.com to sell the overstock of boutique styles.
3-They need to keep a couple styles as "new classics." They can an experience some small changes year to year.
4 Have some gorgeous leather outerwear with more sizes.Have an XXS size as well as XL and a few plus sizes.
Make a medium sized bag that offers an adjustable long strap and then sell or include an extender that can buckle in(like LV speedy b) for crossbody wear for all sizes.
Jewelry in a couple of bracelet sizes, longer necklaces a few larger rings is an absolute no brainer! Really, what's the big deal!!
How about wider calf boots? Every other designer offers them.
My favorite SA was always trying to sell me shoes from the expanded shoe collection. I agree with others that a mid heel would be great. I can't wear high heels or completely flat shoes!
5-Ad campaign: I love the New York Stories idea but how about real people who aren't supermodels or makeup artists? There is no shortage of fascinating people in NYC.
High powered businesswoman, Broadway performer, young professional just starting out,busy urban Mom, gorgeous plus sized woman fashionista etc. Sexy young NYC couple each sporting Coach. (I can see them walking their dog who is wearing a Coach collar.)
6- How about a quarterly catalog like Kors does? I love these and the pictures really stick with you. You could have some people from the NY stories wearing clothes, bags and jewelry. Little clever bios on them.
Just fantasizing.From what people have said Coach is looking to be more exclusive not inclusive.They make some great quality products but they should capitalize on what they are not try to be something they aren't or shouldn't be(ex. Vuitton.)
Remember when Coach called themselves Coach Leatherware? I feel like that is who they are, a leather goods company born in NYC.
Just a consolidation of some ideas on this thread and some of my own:
1-Hire someone who can sort out this electronic communications fiasco. People who sign up
for emails should be able to receive them! Instead of excluding people from FOS just place more stringent limits on the deletes/clearance section.
2-If you want to be seen as a quality company stop overproducing product. There are too many style/color offerings each season.It's inevitable that a lot will go unsold and get dumped at the outlets. Offer yearly or biyearly sales in the FP boutique or Coach.com to sell the overstock of boutique styles.
3-They need to keep a couple styles as "new classics." They can an experience some small changes year to year.
4 Have some gorgeous leather outerwear with more sizes.Have an XXS size as well as XL and a few plus sizes.
Make a medium sized bag that offers an adjustable long strap and then sell or include an extender that can buckle in(like LV speedy b) for crossbody wear for all sizes.
Jewelry in a couple of bracelet sizes, longer necklaces a few larger rings is an absolute no brainer! Really, what's the big deal!!
How about wider calf boots? Every other designer offers them.
My favorite SA was always trying to sell me shoes from the expanded shoe collection. I agree with others that a mid heel would be great. I can't wear high heels or completely flat shoes!
5-Ad campaign: I love the New York Stories idea but how about real people who aren't supermodels or makeup artists? There is no shortage of fascinating people in NYC.
High powered businesswoman, Broadway performer, young professional just starting out,busy urban Mom, gorgeous plus sized woman fashionista etc. Sexy young NYC couple each sporting Coach. (I can see them walking their dog who is wearing a Coach collar.)
6- How about a quarterly catalog like Kors does? I love these and the pictures really stick with you. You could have some people from the NY stories wearing clothes, bags and jewelry. Little clever bios on them.
Just fantasizing.From what people have said Coach is looking to be more exclusive not inclusive.They make some great quality products but they should capitalize on what they are not try to be something they aren't or shouldn't be(ex. Vuitton.)
+1 That, right there.
Not that I don't shop at the outlets ... I have one within 20 minutes, another within 40, and two more within an hour, (two of which are known to get the 'good' stuff). So I know full well that I've benefited ... subjectively. But it is kind of funny how Coach has hinted they want to elevate public perception (like with the capsule collections), but then still dump so many bags en masse. It's a scramble sometimes to find a bag you want at an outlet, but then I think of LV, where it's often a scramble to find a current item in-stock at the boutique level already, let alone pre-loved. (Yeah, I know that happens sometimes with Coach too, but not nearly as often, from what I've seen, read, and experienced.) If Coach 'goes down', whether financially or just flat-out public perception, I do believe it will have been due to the outlets.
eta: Oh, and was just at a boutique a few days ago, and it was indeed deader than a doorknob in there. Except, for another woman who was returning a bag that she'd apparently been using for some days, and was complaining that it just wasn't working in terms of functionality. And it's not like she was trying to hide it or downplay it ... she was quite happily stating that she'd been using it and it just wasn't working. Basically, it wasn't 'sitting' the way she wanted it to. The SA (who's one of the managers, actually), was equally happy in processing the return. Of course, I obviously have no idea what happened to the bag after it was taken behind the counter. Whole thing made me laugh a little.
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Another thing Coach could do to keep up with large retailers (known for great CS) is to offer free returns!! It can be extremely expensive to have to ship a bag back to Coach on my dime (and because of where I live, the nearest Coach boutique is a ferry ride away, which costs me $20-$30 minimum!). Amazon, Nordstrom, Zappos, Bloomingdales, etc etc the list goes on, they all make it extremely easy and free to return items!
(That said, my great SA at my store in Seattle has more than once mailed me a free UPS return label to send something back to them to return in store, so I may just go that route from now on instead of shipping back to JAX and waiting weeks for my refund.)
(That said, my great SA at my store in Seattle has more than once mailed me a free UPS return label to send something back to them to return in store, so I may just go that route from now on instead of shipping back to JAX and waiting weeks for my refund.)
I LOVE this idea! I'm surprised Coach hasn't done this yet now that they want to be a 'lifestyle' brand with their expansion into clothes and jewelry.
A few years ago I used to get little catalogs from Coach. The only thing I've gotten recently was a newspaper style spread with shoes. Bleh.
The Kors catalogs are fun and I actually save them! Lots of models in sports cars and climbing out of helicopters. So like my life,LOL!
I'm sure they are very expensive to produce and distribute. I would love to have a new Coach catalog though.
This is a great thread. I am a classic example of a tpf'er and handbag lover that can afford Coach (and premium brands) and have left the brand due to Coach's cheapening of it.
First I want to say hi to all the long term tpf'ers that know me and haven't seen me around for awhile.
During the boom years of ten years ago, I bought a lot of premium bags and got caught up in the hype of them. Then when we had a recession, I moved to Michigan (I am from nyc) and got more down to earth. I fell in love with the Kristin line, and loved the value for the money. The leather was supple and high quality, the bag was a classic timeless style, and I became a Coach fan.
I NEVER shopped at outlets, and thought that getting a high quality Coach bag for pce price was a good deal.
Then things started to change. The leather started to be less high quality, they killed the Kristin line, and redid it as a cheap mff bag with low quality leather, and they sent bags to the outlets after only a month or so in the stores. I felt like a fool for constantly overpaying for the same bag everyone else was paying half the price or less for.
When the legacy line came in they dumbed down the details, trying to hide the fact that the bags were cheaply made with very little hardware and expensive details. I hated legacy. I started to eye premium bags again and stray from Coach.
Then Phoebe came out and I got excited again. I loved the simplicity, cool colors, and practicality of Phoebe. But almost immediately they started dumping Phoebes in large quantities at the outlets and offering way less color choices.
That was the straw that broke my back. The last Coach I bought was the espresso haircalf Phoebe at pce price early last fall. (now available at outlet prices somewhere I am sure). The haircalf started wearing off almost immediately (on a $1,000 bag). I am through with Coach.
My story is really a metaphor for the whole Coach experience. I am a customer that buys premium brands and can afford them. Coach wants to market their new look to me at a new price point. I bought into the hype and bought one of their new $1,000 bags (that I paid $750 for with pce but still...) and they immediately dumped the bag to the outlets within a few months and the bag that I bought is falling apart way before its time. A company that cannot hold a high price point and cannot deliver quality at that price point is a company should get bought out by Target or Kohls or whoever and stop trying to rebrand itself.
I now buy Reed Krakoff, Balenciaga and an occasional Gucci bag and am not wedded to any one brand.
I don't think Coach will recover from their identity crisis this time, but that is just my opinion.
First I want to say hi to all the long term tpf'ers that know me and haven't seen me around for awhile.
During the boom years of ten years ago, I bought a lot of premium bags and got caught up in the hype of them. Then when we had a recession, I moved to Michigan (I am from nyc) and got more down to earth. I fell in love with the Kristin line, and loved the value for the money. The leather was supple and high quality, the bag was a classic timeless style, and I became a Coach fan.
I NEVER shopped at outlets, and thought that getting a high quality Coach bag for pce price was a good deal.
Then things started to change. The leather started to be less high quality, they killed the Kristin line, and redid it as a cheap mff bag with low quality leather, and they sent bags to the outlets after only a month or so in the stores. I felt like a fool for constantly overpaying for the same bag everyone else was paying half the price or less for.
When the legacy line came in they dumbed down the details, trying to hide the fact that the bags were cheaply made with very little hardware and expensive details. I hated legacy. I started to eye premium bags again and stray from Coach.
Then Phoebe came out and I got excited again. I loved the simplicity, cool colors, and practicality of Phoebe. But almost immediately they started dumping Phoebes in large quantities at the outlets and offering way less color choices.
That was the straw that broke my back. The last Coach I bought was the espresso haircalf Phoebe at pce price early last fall. (now available at outlet prices somewhere I am sure). The haircalf started wearing off almost immediately (on a $1,000 bag). I am through with Coach.
My story is really a metaphor for the whole Coach experience. I am a customer that buys premium brands and can afford them. Coach wants to market their new look to me at a new price point. I bought into the hype and bought one of their new $1,000 bags (that I paid $750 for with pce but still...) and they immediately dumped the bag to the outlets within a few months and the bag that I bought is falling apart way before its time. A company that cannot hold a high price point and cannot deliver quality at that price point is a company should get bought out by Target or Kohls or whoever and stop trying to rebrand itself.
I now buy Reed Krakoff, Balenciaga and an occasional Gucci bag and am not wedded to any one brand.
I don't think Coach will recover from their identity crisis this time, but that is just my opinion.
It probably is costly to print and mail out catalogs, but why not make such materials available for a small fee? I've paid for Louis Vuitton catalogs in the past. If I like the brand and buy a lot from them, I will gladly fork over a couple of bucks for a catalog to browse at my leisure.
I noticed this re the uniforms in oct when i got my first fp bag in yrs (after a coach pause and diving into minkoff and lv). I remember the old uniform of black skirts/pants and vneck sweater. Curious when this changed. Also when we got home and i realized i had been handed the wrong bag my sis said she thought the sa was "totally hungover" as she had a club stamp still on her hand from the previous night and was out of it!
I've really enjoyed following this thread and want to chime in with my story.
I became interested in Coach in October 2012. I was fed up with buying cheap brands from Marshall's and Bergner's and wanted something high quality. One of my nieces had a cognac Coach bag and it was oohhhed and ahhhed over. I had some lawsuit money, so I went for it. I bought the Lindsey in black with brass hardware, a matching wallet, a yellow leather pencil case, the metallic snake Caroline, the python embossed woven Carrie and several others. I purchased them from coach.com and enjoyed the whole experience.
I remember getting my first PCE. I thought it was a gift for being a new client to Coach and I used it to buy a metallic Lindsey for one of my other nieces. That was really fun. But then I noticed that I was getting PCEs like every month, which made Coach look desperate and really turned me off. I also noticed how rapidly the styles were changing and didn't like that, either. I had just purchased my first LVs and appreciated that LV and several other designers have certain classic styles that are permanent, considered icons. I wondered why Coach didn't have an icons line. ( I know that there are Coach classics on their website, but I would want to try one on in person to see if it's right for me. ) Then I was disturbed to find that entire collections were gone. I was confused. Where is the New Willis, the Courtenay, the Rory? Were there design flaws that caused Coach to pull them?
Then I had a strange experience. A woman I know from work had mentioned that she got a Coach bag from one of their factory outlets and showed it to me. It looked so cheap and the leather didn't feel nice like my Coach bags. I was shocked, and thought it might be a fake. It just didn't have that great Coach quality.
I also noticed what others have mentioned: there are teeny, weeny bags or extra jumbo with very little in between. I can't do either. I like my medium to large bags. My Caroline and Lindsey are about as large as I like to go.
I absolutely love the Coach bags I have. I use them all the time, in rotation with my LVs and get lots of compliments. But I think Coach needs to improve. Fast.
I agree with other posters on so many points, especially on getting rid of factory outlets and reducing the amount of PCEs.
I have a lot of confidence in Coach. I think they can turn it around especially if some of their execs read this thread. I hope to purchase another Coach bag when that happens.
I became interested in Coach in October 2012. I was fed up with buying cheap brands from Marshall's and Bergner's and wanted something high quality. One of my nieces had a cognac Coach bag and it was oohhhed and ahhhed over. I had some lawsuit money, so I went for it. I bought the Lindsey in black with brass hardware, a matching wallet, a yellow leather pencil case, the metallic snake Caroline, the python embossed woven Carrie and several others. I purchased them from coach.com and enjoyed the whole experience.
I remember getting my first PCE. I thought it was a gift for being a new client to Coach and I used it to buy a metallic Lindsey for one of my other nieces. That was really fun. But then I noticed that I was getting PCEs like every month, which made Coach look desperate and really turned me off. I also noticed how rapidly the styles were changing and didn't like that, either. I had just purchased my first LVs and appreciated that LV and several other designers have certain classic styles that are permanent, considered icons. I wondered why Coach didn't have an icons line. ( I know that there are Coach classics on their website, but I would want to try one on in person to see if it's right for me. ) Then I was disturbed to find that entire collections were gone. I was confused. Where is the New Willis, the Courtenay, the Rory? Were there design flaws that caused Coach to pull them?
Then I had a strange experience. A woman I know from work had mentioned that she got a Coach bag from one of their factory outlets and showed it to me. It looked so cheap and the leather didn't feel nice like my Coach bags. I was shocked, and thought it might be a fake. It just didn't have that great Coach quality.
I also noticed what others have mentioned: there are teeny, weeny bags or extra jumbo with very little in between. I can't do either. I like my medium to large bags. My Caroline and Lindsey are about as large as I like to go.
I absolutely love the Coach bags I have. I use them all the time, in rotation with my LVs and get lots of compliments. But I think Coach needs to improve. Fast.
I agree with other posters on so many points, especially on getting rid of factory outlets and reducing the amount of PCEs.
I have a lot of confidence in Coach. I think they can turn it around especially if some of their execs read this thread. I hope to purchase another Coach bag when that happens.