Scarves Hermes scarves screen print to laserjet print switchover
- Thread starter blacktigergoose
- Start date
If you do a search on tPF this has been discussed before. It was years ago around 2013/14, and the printing does not affect the silk. H did a whole thing romanticising the laser-process (whatever the equivalent of greenwashing is when marketing trad. heritage artisan skills for its 'Luddite' customers). My suspicion is they had been using laser printing before that.
Permanent Style From 2019: https://www.permanentstyle.com/2019/03/hermes-silk-printing-lyon-factory-visit.html
This quote is from Disney Roller Girl 16 may 2013: https://www.disneyrollergirl.net/studio-visit-hermes-silk-scarf-workshops-lyon/
"On the printing floor we get to see some printing in action. I love the mix of delicate draughtsmanship one minute, then ultra modern machinery the next. We’re whisked past a spanking new laser machine that’s being tried out but we’re not allowed to take photos or even see it. Instead we’re shown more traditional-looking screen-printing – big metal-framed screens of polyester gauze (stronger than silk screens) which are adapted to the design and the fabric being used. (A carré isn’t only silk, sometimes it’s a silk-cashmere mix.) It’s then covered in blue photo sensitive gelatine and the gauze exposed to UV light. The gelatine’s job is to stop the colour landing on those areas."
Laser allows for more complex designs, shading and other techniques that couldn't be done before within the printing process. It also allows for reprints throughout the season of more popular designs/cws (which is prob. one reason for these darned colour families, perhaps each colour family is a different machine and they can just change the design digitally (speculation)). I'd think there'd be fewer seconds too. One of the only 'down-sides' is the less saturated reverse on some designs.
If they already have the plates for reissues I can't think why they wouldn't still screen-print them but according to Permenant style it's all moved over to laser.
Permanent Style From 2019: https://www.permanentstyle.com/2019/03/hermes-silk-printing-lyon-factory-visit.html
This quote is from Disney Roller Girl 16 may 2013: https://www.disneyrollergirl.net/studio-visit-hermes-silk-scarf-workshops-lyon/
"On the printing floor we get to see some printing in action. I love the mix of delicate draughtsmanship one minute, then ultra modern machinery the next. We’re whisked past a spanking new laser machine that’s being tried out but we’re not allowed to take photos or even see it. Instead we’re shown more traditional-looking screen-printing – big metal-framed screens of polyester gauze (stronger than silk screens) which are adapted to the design and the fabric being used. (A carré isn’t only silk, sometimes it’s a silk-cashmere mix.) It’s then covered in blue photo sensitive gelatine and the gauze exposed to UV light. The gelatine’s job is to stop the colour landing on those areas."
Laser allows for more complex designs, shading and other techniques that couldn't be done before within the printing process. It also allows for reprints throughout the season of more popular designs/cws (which is prob. one reason for these darned colour families, perhaps each colour family is a different machine and they can just change the design digitally (speculation)). I'd think there'd be fewer seconds too. One of the only 'down-sides' is the less saturated reverse on some designs.
If they already have the plates for reissues I can't think why they wouldn't still screen-print them but according to Permenant style it's all moved over to laser.
It's closer to deceptive marketing, using false or misleading information to incite people to make a purchase... I guess they could say they are showing of an ancient art, but if they are implying the scarves they sell are made that way, it's deceptive marketing. Two LV ads were banned in the UK for suggesting that the products are hand made without machines many years ago. And this is basically the same stuff...
H still insists they are using screen-printing, which still makes be believe they print reissues the same way as they always did(?)
I can't find the vid where a beautiful model daces through the laser-jet factory with roles and roles of silk but I remember many members commenting on it at that time within one of our seasonal scarf threads. Should be in the Reference section by now - somewhere.
Anyway, H did this thing of trying to make laser-jet look beautiful and arty etc so almost the opposite of the LV pretence but most of us were left laughing.
Many years ago I went to a Toronto Hermes exhibition and they were screen printing scarves. It might be my imagination, but I have found the older scarves have richer colours, and the later scarves since the laserjet printing have some vivid and cheap looking colours in many of the designs.
And they may be doing that for some scarves. Sadly I think several of the brands, but especially Hermes probably are shooting themselves in the foot by trying to garnish, or being less transparent about some of the less luxurious sounding production methods in order to give an uneducated client (looking for information) an easy answer for the sake of story telling, because usually a lot of the nuance is lost and there are items that are produced with a varying degree of manual labor.
All of the big French conglomerates are supporting traditional arts in some ways. But it's not profitable/cost prohibitive if you want living wages, volume, environmentally friendly etc. to use that mode of production for every item, or items that have to be more or less mass produced especially when more efficient ways are yielding a more desirable result or a similar result for the clients. I can't imagine how many complaints over crooked stitching there would be if every luxury bag were hand stitched with saddle stitching solely based on the number of unhappy posts about stitching across this forum. Saddle stitch will inevitably be more uneven and crooked and a hand cut instead of laser cut piece of leather leaves more room for failure. A leather bag assembled with the help of sewing machines still require a lot of craftsmanship and hand finishing, and it is in no way similar to sewing a Zara (or maybe Shein these days?) t-shirt in a fabric that is so cheap that it hardly matters how much of it is lost in the process.
Hermes doesn't make scarves in just one way and they're not even all made in the same place. The Kyoto marble scarves are an example of incredible and rare craftsmanship that are neither silk screened nor printed and that are widely available everything considered. Some of the scarves and textiles at Hermes are dip dyed and hand woven in Asia somewhere (India?).
But I guess the story telling over actual information has been working better so far for these companies selling dreams, so in that context Hermès les ballets de laser-jets is a laudable attempt at something.
And they may be doing that for some scarves. Sadly I think several of the brands, but especially Hermes probably are shooting themselves in the foot by trying to garnish, or being less transparent about some of the less luxurious sounding production methods in order to give an uneducated client (looking for information) an easy answer for the sake of story telling, because usually a lot of the nuance is lost and there are items that are produced with a varying degree of manual labor.
All of the big French conglomerates are supporting traditional arts in some ways. But it's not profitable/cost prohibitive if you want living wages, volume, environmentally friendly etc. to use that mode of production for every item, or items that have to be more or less mass produced especially when more efficient ways are yielding a more desirable result or a similar result for the clients. I can't imagine how many complaints over crooked stitching there would be if every luxury bag were hand stitched with saddle stitching solely based on the number of unhappy posts about stitching across this forum. Saddle stitch will inevitably be more uneven and crooked and a hand cut instead of laser cut piece of leather leaves more room for failure. A leather bag assembled with the help of sewing machines still require a lot of craftsmanship and hand finishing, and it is in no way similar to sewing a Zara (or maybe Shein these days?) t-shirt in a fabric that is so cheap that it hardly matters how much of it is lost in the process.
Hermes doesn't make scarves in just one way and they're not even all made in the same place. The Kyoto marble scarves are an example of incredible and rare craftsmanship that are neither silk screened nor printed and that are widely available everything considered. Some of the scarves and textiles at Hermes are dip dyed and hand woven in Asia somewhere (India?).
But I guess the story telling over actual information has been working better so far for these companies selling dreams, so in that context Hermès les ballets de laser-jets is a laudable attempt at something.
I wish they would educate their customers instead of pandering to their neurosis and ignorance. How many times have we tried to reassure new clients that some creasing and ageing is entirely natural in shoes, boots and bags. If they repeated the 'nuance' enough, I think people would not only be calmed but also feel empowered, education is power.
So are you saying the Forever and Re-Issue scarves are the only ones possibly being silk screened. Does anyone really know?
Replying in this thread, so as to keep the new season one on-topic. Tagging @aquatopaz and @Helena7 who were part of the original question.
Just a thought, and I have nothing to base this on other than it makes logical sense… H has been working to perfect the double-sided printing technique for years. Less saturation on the reverse would not just be beneficial, it would actually be necessary, for this to work. Perhaps the development of this process has also influenced how the regular print runs occur; thicker inks, faster drying times, or something along those lines?
There seems to be some confusion in terminology with the process of producing H scarves, in part because H has been a bit cryptic about it probably in order to further its sales agenda (and maybe because the SAs aren't as well informed about the Metier as they might be).
As I understand it from attending a Metiers demonstration and from watching several videos of visits to the Lyon workshop, the scarves are 'screen printed' meaning there is either a hand with a squeegee-like device, or an overhead, laser computer machine on a conveyor belt system that, by applying dyes using sequential passes over a scarf overlaid with screens of various design elements, produces what we all know to be a 'H silk-screened scarf'. Leaving aside some very special circumstances (marble scarves, some of the very recent tie-dyed, and other specially printed scarves) it's very likely that substantially all of the current scarves are printed in what could be called a machine/industrial produced manner. There are of course many staffers involved in supervising the machinery but the idea that any of the current scarves are individually made by hand is highly unlikely no matter the sales pitch (even at $550 each!).
I think @Lellabelle is correct; there are many factors at play with the shift to mechanical screen printing, including production efficiency and less waste, and perhaps the ability to use the technology to achieve results that hand printing cannot (double faced scarves?). I think it's also fair to say that many of the older designs have a depth of shading and beauty that don't seem to be achievable with the newer techniques but I'm not sure if that's a technology problem or a design problem (highly graphic designs don't always call for multiple screens).
So for the 'Forever Scarves' Jungle Love, Eperon d'Or and the like, they are silk, screened scarves (I don't thing the screening process either by hand or by laser machine, uses silk screens; I would guess that the screens are made of some other material). The screens for these designs have long been made, and H has decided to issue particular designs in iconic cws instead of reissuing the design in a new season with different colorways. Anti-Bride de Gala people everywhere are breathing a sigh of relief, lol!
This is just my understanding of the process, and I would welcome more info to clarify this
ETA:https://www.permanentstyle.com/2019/03/hermes-silk-printing-lyon-factory-visit.html
As I understand it from attending a Metiers demonstration and from watching several videos of visits to the Lyon workshop, the scarves are 'screen printed' meaning there is either a hand with a squeegee-like device, or an overhead, laser computer machine on a conveyor belt system that, by applying dyes using sequential passes over a scarf overlaid with screens of various design elements, produces what we all know to be a 'H silk-screened scarf'. Leaving aside some very special circumstances (marble scarves, some of the very recent tie-dyed, and other specially printed scarves) it's very likely that substantially all of the current scarves are printed in what could be called a machine/industrial produced manner. There are of course many staffers involved in supervising the machinery but the idea that any of the current scarves are individually made by hand is highly unlikely no matter the sales pitch (even at $550 each!).
I think @Lellabelle is correct; there are many factors at play with the shift to mechanical screen printing, including production efficiency and less waste, and perhaps the ability to use the technology to achieve results that hand printing cannot (double faced scarves?). I think it's also fair to say that many of the older designs have a depth of shading and beauty that don't seem to be achievable with the newer techniques but I'm not sure if that's a technology problem or a design problem (highly graphic designs don't always call for multiple screens).
So for the 'Forever Scarves' Jungle Love, Eperon d'Or and the like, they are silk, screened scarves (I don't thing the screening process either by hand or by laser machine, uses silk screens; I would guess that the screens are made of some other material). The screens for these designs have long been made, and H has decided to issue particular designs in iconic cws instead of reissuing the design in a new season with different colorways. Anti-Bride de Gala people everywhere are breathing a sigh of relief, lol!
This is just my understanding of the process, and I would welcome more info to clarify this
ETA:https://www.permanentstyle.com/2019/03/hermes-silk-printing-lyon-factory-visit.html