I have the same understanding about phone calls, but these conversations are happening in person. Not sure if it’s legal to secretly record a store visit. These types of videos are all over TikTok. My SA even said he appeared in a TikTok without his consent.
Hermès Faces Class Action Suit Over Birkin Sales Practices
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I have the same understanding about phone calls, but these conversations are happening in person. Not sure if it’s legal to secretly record a store visit. These types of videos are all over TikTok. My SA even said he appeared in a TikTok without his consent.
I think arbitrarily & selfishly recording someone without their permission/consent (audio and video), regardless of First Amendment and/or legality in your state, is lower than low...and I despise it.
However, just providing some context here -- by which in no shape or form should be considered neither my supporting it nor condemning it; this is just an objective view on the questions posed above -- California Penal Code 632 states that if the conversation is taking place in a public space where individuals do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy, it may be admissible to record without consent. (so as long as it wasn't a phone call, and the SA said this to the customer(s) in store/public, then it would be legal)
But...PC Section 632 also states that “evidence obtained as a result of...recording a confidential communication in violation of this section is not admissible in any judicial, administrative, legislative, or other proceeding.”
So, the subjective argument would be whether said conversations were considered confidential or not. Both sides could argue both standpoints, I guess.
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A lawsuit because some people can't buy a Birkin in the store. This is so good! I wonder if lawyers will seek a therapeutic perspective. 😂
I totally agree with this. Many people in this thread have let their emotions outweigh their opinions, and they have been quick to jump to vehemently defend Hermès without weighing all the facts objectively. Just because you think the lawsuit is "frivolous" or "silly", or you resort to cheap shots and name-calling by saying the attorneys are "brain dead", doesn't mean the mere foundation of the suit (or the elephant in the room) doesn't have merits. As I wrote when I started this thread, if nothing else, whether you agree or disagree with it--this lawsuit will open eyes & get people talking...and it did!
Btw, the Gift of Kings are now >$3k, as I recently found out during my latest visit.
I think it varies from state to state. For example, in some states, it's a "one-party consent law" meaning as long as one person consents (the person doing the recording) it's legal. Not sure about CA, though.
Just to be clear, I’m not suggesting anyone should record SAs without their consent
There are just a lot of talks about “lack of evidence” from the plaintiffs, and I’m asking the experts in the room if it’s even legal for one to gather evidence through recording an in-person conversation.
Oh yes absolutely. I didn't think that you were suggesting that. And I hope it didn't come across as if I was inferring that you suggested that. We're on the same page here.Just to be clear, I’m not suggesting anyone should record SAs without their consent
There are just a lot of talks about “lack of evidence” from the plaintiffs, and I’m asking the experts in the room if it’s even legal for one to gather evidence through recording an in-person conversation.
I was mostly referring to: e.g. those annoying YouTube videos where people are just going around recording people without their consent, and even though the person being recorded has explicitly expressed their disdain/uncomfortableness with being recorded, the "harassers" still continue to record and laugh like it's funny...all for personal gain.
I understand the emotions involved. Being humiliated, feeling not worthy are very powerful motivators for filing a lawsuit. I would never dispute that Hermes SAs have made some consumers feel that way while shopping in their stores. I myself have had unpleasant experiences in Hermes stores in Paris and Honolulu. I am being very, very specific with the particular legal pleading that you and others cannot and have not addressed. This particular pleading is not good, actually very bad.I totally agree with this. Many people in this thread have let their emotions outweigh their opinions, and they have been quick to jump to vehemently defend Hermès without weighing all the facts objectively. Just because you think the lawsuit is "frivolous" or "silly", or you resort to cheap shots and name-calling by saying the attorneys are "brain dead", doesn't mean the mere foundation of the suit (or the elephant in the room) doesn't have merits. As I wrote when I started this thread, if nothing else, whether you agree or disagree with it--this lawsuit will open eyes & get people talking...and it did!
Btw, the Gift of Kings are now >$3k, as I recently found out during my latest visit.
By way of example let me explain why this particular complaint will likely fail legally, other than it is factually false, as I previously stated. This is a case of first impression, nobody has ever sued and successfully challenged Hermes’ method of sales, which is employed by many luxury vendors in California. Are Federal Anti-trust laws the correct laws to challenge Hermes sales tactics? Who knows? But what courts and attorneys do is looks at other court cases in the jurisdiction, legislative notes underlying the Cartwright Act, Sherman Act and Business and Professions Code to determine if Hermes practices could potentially fall within the preview of these statutes.
So despite how emotional everybody is about the perceived disrespectful treatment received at the hands of Hermes, is legal relief available to these Plaintiffs under Federal Anti-trust statutes? Based on my reading of the relevant Supreme Court cases, the Statutes and legislative history, these Plaintiffs are unlikely to prevail. I will not personally provide you with my research, but if you are a lawyer, you can easily do your own research.
And Plaintiffs’ attorneys, an embarrassment to the profession. Plaintiffs would do better by firing them.
How is this relevant to the case's legal merits?
Great. What are the other court cases in the jurisdiction? What are those legislative notes underlying the Cartwright Act and the Sherman Act? What are the Professions Code to determine if they fall within these statutes?
What are those relevant Supreme Court cases, statutes and legislative history informing your decision?
Did I stutter!? Hahahaha! Please see as stated above, “I will not personally provide you with my research, but if you are a lawyer, you can easily do your own research.”
My apologies, I assumed you were a practicing attorney in the US. A practicing attorney would immediately understand the significance of litigating a case of first impression.
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Agree. A lot of the issues you summarize here have been mentioned already by others
There also have been numerous articles and legal commentary on line (elsewhere) re reasons why this case is legally weak. I haven’t even needed to google them myself. Other members have provided links throughout the thread.
So... not going to defend or support your position with legal analysis that can hold up in a court of law. Even though you're an attorney. In a thread about a lawsuit.
Got it. 👍
Here comes the judge!
Let's not get heated and arguments between ourselves please, we're all on the same side. TY
Let's not get heated and arguments between ourselves please, we're all on the same side. TY
perhaps read earlier posts in the thread including but not limited to that of @haute okole
There has been a lot of discussion regarding the merits
As above or it'll be off to the naughty step!