Hermès Faces Class Action Suit Over Birkin Sales Practices

[toujours*chic]

To me this is a frivolous lawsuit. Government should not interfere in a company's practices if they are legitimate and lawful. Hermes has the right to sell their products to whomever they want. The market should decide whether Hermes practices should be tolerated- if customers keep buying their products, they will stay in business. IMO, only a small %age of customers are on the quota bag quest and disgruntled like the complaining individuals who filed this action. For those of us who love the brand, being offered a b/k is icing on the cake. I have turned down many quota bags in my long history with H. Hermes is so much more than about status bags.

 

[Love_Couture]

Not a lawyer here. Have been on the Hermes "journey" for more than 10 years. I don't know if the plaintiffs have a case or if they will win.

IMHO, I am not sure if this QB sale strategy is more of helping or hurting the Hermes brand. Look at this pendant in giftable condition on FP, it is selling more than 50% discount and there are multiples: 18K Rose Gold Pink Sapphire Kelly Amulettes Pendant Necklace

The higher the competition in the market, the higher the "pre-spend" ratio, and therefore more H non-bag items in the secondary market with the higher discounts on them, and ultimately further "crap-ify" these H non-bags items.... The higher discounts on these "crap", the higher the resale price on the QB, then the competition is higher, and it spirals up.

I love earrings. But it is hard for me to get the decent simple elegant designs in the store. Most of the time, only Finesse or big earrings are available. The "pre-spend" items are competitive too. Even if I can get the styles I like in the store, isn't it sucks to know that the item is devalued, and the same (new) thing is available with a (big) discount outside? And even if I truly love the brand and the design, and bought them in the store or the secondary market with a discount, doesn't it leave a bad taste in my month that I am wearing someone else's "crap"?

This sale strategy surely bring H high revenues and appreciate greatly on their leather goods. At the SAME time, it devalues all the non-bags items and possibly hurt the "brand"... Just my 2-cents... Thanks for reading. Have a great weekend

 

[smallbeast217]

Alas, they are not parallel.

Yes, art is handmade; yes, a Birkin is "handmade". The difference is: a Pablo Picasso is not able to be made again by the brand Picasso after he dies; a Da Vinci is not able to be made again by the brand Da Vinci after he dies; so the art is then deemed priceless/precious/one-of-a-kind. But a Birkin is "replicate-able" (in the sense that two Himalayan Birkins will be virtually indistinguishable to the naked eye and they can be made again upon request by Hermes the brand, even after the original artisan(s) dies). A Birkin is not priceless/precious. I am an avid art-collector, so I am very passionate about this topic.

Yes there are galleries that I support long-term, and yes I have a larger collection of some artists than other artists--along with that comes some perks: I've gotten to meet multiple artists personally, I've gotten first-glance access to new pieces, I've had exclusive invitations to parties/auctions, I have preferred pricing, etc. But nothing about my long-term loyalty alludes to the fact that no other person has access to those artworks. If you are a "newbie" and your wallet is big enough and/or the piece is still available, you have the same fair opportunity to purchase that artwork that a VIP like myself has. You are not required to purchase xxx number of sculptures or art books from the gallery in order to purchase the art, LOL. You are not required to purchase xxx serigraphs before you are allowed to purchase an OOC (oil on canvas). You cannot just walk right off the street into Hermes and purchase a Birkin...even if you witness the person right before you, who was on the "pre-spend list", refuse it--it goes in the stockroom and waits for person #2. Sorry, the two subjects of your argument [Birkin vs. artwork] are just not the same.

Yes, I do agree with your last bolded sentence: whether art or Birkin, they are just material things that we do not have to have; you can't take them to your grave. But they are nice to look at while you have breath in your lungs!!

It’s not “my” argument. It’s TAN’s. The parallel is just that- a parallel- not an exact equal. While you cannot of course buy a “new” Picasso there is a robust secondary market, often also populated by primary market dealers. And actually (as I’m sure you may have encountered or know other collectors who have) many times you are “required” to buy XYZ works on paper, lithographs…works by other artists before you may be offered a work by the artist you really want. The article talks about this as well. I’ve been an art dealer for 20 years. I’ve had the game played on me and I’ve played it. It’s a very similar game. But handbags aren’t art and, as you point out, Hermes can continue to produce product long after the original artisan has passed away. In the art world that’s called fraud! (Don’t miss the documentary on Knoedler for some good times!) 😂

 

[OnlyModa]

If you are a "newbie" and your wallet is big enough and/or the piece is still available, you have the same fair opportunity

Keyword: if it is still available. Being an art collector, you know very well that the covet pieces rarely make it to the open market. A newbie with no contacts can only get a piece they want by grossly overpaying, just like you can get a Birkin or a Kelly through resellers.

 

[FrenchNewbie]

Keyword: if it is still available. Being an art collector, you know very well that the covet pieces rarely make it to the open market. A newbie with no contacts can only get a piece they want by grossly overpaying, just like you can get a Birkin or a Kelly through resellers.

No, I think you are taking that quote out of context. I wrote "if it's still available" in the sense that if Person A didn't beat you to it, then you can walk into the gallery/auction and take it home with you (of course I am oversimplifying it, but for all intents and purposes, there is no waiting list or pre-spend required)! With Hermès, Person B cannot walk into the store and get the Birkin even if Person A didn’t buy it...they have to be on a list and "build a profile" or amass a "spend history" first.

The point I'm making is that most goods in the world are fair game to consumers...they operate off of "first come, first serve"; even if people with connections get first access, they aren't required to spend and spend on frivolous stuff just to get the opportunity to purchase art from the gallery. Hermès operates off "more $ spent, higher place on the list for the B/K".

 

[smallbeast217]

No, I think you are taking that quote out of context. I wrote "if it's still available" in the sense that if Person A didn't beat you to it, then you can walk into the gallery/auction and take it home with you (of course I am oversimplifying it, but for all intents and purposes, there is no waiting list or pre-spend required)! With Hermès, Person B cannot walk into the store and get the Birkin even if Person A didn’t buy it...they have to be on a list and "build a profile" or amass a "spend history" first.

The point I'm making is that most goods in the world are fair game to consumers...they operate off of "first come, first serve"; even if people with connections get first access, they aren't required to spend and spend on frivolous stuff just to get the opportunity to purchase art from the gallery. Hermès operates off "more $ spent, higher place on the list for the B/K".

But there ARE often waiting lists and pre-spend required for art (at least art that is in demand- auctions operate differently of course). And sometimes an investigation into who you are, what else is in your collection and references. again- depends on the market and the artist- but still a similar game.

 

[WhiteBus]

. . . But handbags aren’t art and, as you point out, Hermes can continue to produce product long after the original artisan has passed away. In the art world that’s called fraud! (😂

although the first example of every bag would probably have been made by an artisan, the artisan would have been following the instructions or pattern of a designer

this is confusing art with artefact

so whether the artisan is alive or dead is the wrong analogy
the art world analogy relates to edition pieces intended to be limited in number where the means to create should be defaced or destroyed once the intended number is reached

the fraud equivalent does exist in the Hermes world too
that is in the production of counterfeit copies

 

[phoenixfeather]

My whole issue is that I am offended when people call Hermes scarves, shawls, bracelets, etc..."bait" and "crap."
I wear the "bait" and "crap" because I LOVE THESE ITEMS, not because I have to buy them in order to buy a bag. It makes me upset to know that people are buying coveted scarves, shawls, bracelets, etc just to "score" a B/K/C. We "scarf people" find it hard to find these hard to come by items because of those who buy only for the sole purpose of hoping to get a bag. In my own personal experience, I have never had to buy other items to get a bag. During my first year of buying scarves and bracelets, my SA told me that they sell more than scarves and bracelets, "how about a bag?" I didn't start a "journey" to score anything; it just naturally happened.
It would be interesting to know if the two that brought the lawsuit wore their scarves, shawls, and bracelets to court or if they already sold these on ebay. Sorry to be so negative, but seriously!
Sorry, but I don't want Hermes to churn out B/K/C on an assembly line controlled by robots. The quality would go down!

100% this. I've bought from Hermès for many years now and I'm absolutely not interested in quota bags. I have been asked if I was interested after being a "good customer" for such a long time but I'm really not interested. What bothers me is that everything I like is always sold out and that the things I love wearing are called Birkin bait.

 

[benjinito]

A friend of mine was just asked to purchase FJ in exchange for a K28 at a US store. I suppose the lawsuit didn’t deter some SAs from continuing with their sales tactics

 

[haute okole]

I have had this post on ignore because I agree with @acrowcounted. There is a reason that it is business as usual at Hermes and why NO ONE has sued and prevailed against Hermes since 1837 or whenever it was founded. No matter how many people who have had their feelings hurt, felt belittled etc, there is NO LAW IN THE US that allows legal, monetary recovery for that specific grievance. Plaintiffs in this case picked the most brain dead attorneys in California. First, they picked the wrong court, they picked the wrong laws to pursue their claim that have Zero to do with the underlying facts, these 2 plaintiffs have no standing to recover under Anti-trust law, and there are so many factual errors it shows that the plaintiffs both lied to their attorneys and the attorneys failed to do their research before filing the Complaint. As I said before, this is the most unprofessional complaint I have ever seen, EVER. These attorneys are the laughing stock of the California Bar. How do I know, I have been a member of the Ca. bar, Federal and State since 1992 specializing in litigation. BTW, evidence of great recovery for any attorney does not mean evidence of a good attorney, simply of a worthy client. This case with bad attorneys with greedy clients is a loser. Sad thing with the law, is you never know until you know.

 

[880]

But there ARE often waiting lists and pre-spend required for art (at least art that is in demand- auctions operate differently of course). And sometimes an investigation into who you are, what else is in your collection and references. again- depends on the market and the artist- but still a similar game.

100% agree. I’ve experienced this issue with art; with watches; with furniture; and other items. Some are one of a kind; some limited edition ; and so on. Sometimes one can get in st the ground level with an artist, but often not. None of this is actionable.

 

[MonsoonBirkin]

@haute okole , you as a litigator in CA can offer a lot of insight into things like the proceedings, facets of the law, etc. That's great and it's much appreciated because it helps to educate us all. I'm happy to learn from you, as I did on filings. But I know attorneys also have Guidelines of Civility and Professionalism: does calling the plaintiff's counsel as "brain dead," "losers," "laughing stock of the CA Bar" really comport with those standards? Same with making statements about "greedy" clients "lying" to their attorney?

Again: if you want to say WHY the court is wrong venue, I'm all ears since I've asked it here and in our informative DMs with no answer. If you want to describe on what legal grounds their research is deficient, that's great because I'd be really interested to know, too. And I hope that's evident when I've linked articles of other legal professionals and their opinions of this lawsuit, all of whom agree that this suit is tenuous. Not one of them, however, have gone so far as to cast aspersions on the clients or their fellow attorneys to buttress their perfectly good points otherwise.

 

[haute okole]

@haute okole , you as a litigator in CA can offer a lot of insight into things like the proceedings, facets of the law, etc. That's great and it's much appreciated because it helps to educate us all. I'm happy to learn from you, as I did on filings. But I know attorneys also have Guidelines of Civility and Professionalism: does calling the plaintiff's counsel as "brain dead," "losers," "laughing stock of the CA Bar" really comport with those standards? Same with making statements about "greedy" clients "lying" to their attorney?

Again: if you want to say WHY the court is wrong venue, I'm all ears since I've asked it here and in our informative DMs with no answer. If you want to describe on what legal grounds their research is deficient, that's great because I'd be really interested to know, too. And I hope that's evident when I've linked articles of other legal professionals and their opinions of this lawsuit, all of whom agree that this suit is tenuous. Not one of them, however, have gone so far as to cast aspersions on the clients or their fellow attorneys to buttress their perfectly good points otherwise.

I have answered in detail my legal opinions and once you have passed the bar in Calfornia, I welcome your opinion. I have an opinion that I am completely entitled to based on my 20+ years of my personal professional experience as a civil state and Federal California litigator. If you have superior personal experience, please site them. However, your continued antagonistic legal statements seem to have no real legal basis other than google.

 

[MonsoonBirkin]

I have answered in detail my legal opinions and once you have passed the bar in Calfornia, I welcome your opinion. I have an opinion that I am completely entitled to based on my 20+ years of my personal professional experience as a civil state and Federal California litigator. If you have superior personal experience, please site them. However, your continued antagonistic legal statements seem to have no real legal basis other than google.

Didn't know the "trust me I'm a lawyer" is evidence, and that you're immune from CA Bar ethical rules. Thanks for clarifying!

 

[haute okole]

Didn't know the "trust me I'm a lawyer" is evidence, and that you're immune from CA Bar ethical rules. Thanks for clarifying!

Again, you have misunderstood my written word. I have nothing against you, but I do have a bone to pick with poorly written legal pleadings. I do not understand your dogmatic support for something that is so legally weak. I understand and empathize with those who may have felt belittled by Hermes and maybe the reason you are holding on to this issue regardless of the poor legal standing is because you feel victimized or aggrieved. However, this complaint may have touched a nerve, this particular Compalint will not bring legal relief. That is all I am saying, nothing personal, which is what you are making it.