I mean seriously… did these plaintiffs really think this through? 😂 Whether they win (unlikely) or lose how is this going to help them get another berking?
Hermès Faces Class Action Suit Over Birkin Sales Practices
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Exactly this. My first time in Hermes I waited in line for an hour outside because I really really wanted a scarf for me and my husband. At that point the elusive Birkin was barely in my head. I had heard of it (haha, from Ex and the City, please don’t judge) but that was it. The SA who sold me the scarves (at like 3 minutes to closing) was so nice and helpful that I went back A couple times more and bought more things that I liked and wanted. With no pressure - if anything the SA always made sure I really liked something and it was a good fit before she sold it. The word prespend never came up. At one point I mentioned I liked the Rock that I saw online. A few months later she called and asked if I would like to visit to see a Birkin. It was a (extremely exciting) surprise and not something I was prespending my butt off for to achieve.Disgruntled, would be, birkin buyers are not a protected class
I say this as a regular client who would like the right bag to come along and is waiting lol
ETA: I tally prespend as a voluntary contribution to the relevant TPF thread, with the understanding that experiences differ. I don’t think of my shopping as coerced
Thanks @MacawGuyExactly this. My first time in HermesI waited in line for an hour outside because I really really wanted a scarf for me and my husband. At that point the elusive Birkin was barely in my head. I had heard of it (haha, from Ex and the City, please don’t judge) but that was it. The SA who sold me the scarves (at like 3 minutes to closing) was so nice and helpful that I went back A couple times more and bought more things that I liked and wanted. With no pressure - if anything the SA always made sure I really liked something and it was a good fit before she sold it. The word prespend never came up. At one point I mentioned I liked the Rock that I saw online. A few months later she called and asked if I would like to visit to see a Birkin. It was a (extremely exciting) surprise and not something I was prespending my butt off for to achieve.
I’m happy that you had such a nice surprise from your SAIf the thoughtful, substantive comments up thread, from members with a legal background and some knowledge of this area, indicate the case is sensational and has minimal legal merit, not sure what is left but to mock. One could just as easily make an argument that those posts which take the plaintiff seriously, many of whom conflate unofficial prespend with coercion,
have no intellectual legal basis to stand on. So, then the issue might become will the case have legs based on collective sour grapes of a proposed class (of people who didn’t get their bag
. . . And the eye-catching Hermes brand. Someone else joked, what if the judge is only at 2.5X . @Bdbunny made the comment earlier, half in jest, that the complaint allegations read like a disgruntled TPF post lol. I wonder if plaintiff A is or was a TPF member lol.ETA: @haute okole , there’s another CA lawsuit involving lactose intolerant plaintiffs who are alleging Starbucks discrimination of their ADA protected class. . .wait for it lol. . . Bc of the surcharge on oat milk. . . The mere description of that pleading sounded marginally better lol, but also worthy of a late night comedy skit.
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Maybe it is just me, but this is the worst legal pleading I have personally ever read in my 20+ years of reading Complaints. Federal Courts in California are sticklers for procedure and court rules and this Complaint has few hallmarks of professionalism. This case is better left for the Saturday Night Live writers room because it is just so silly, and departs so much from the standard expected from California Federal Court pleadings.
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This is the part I'm most interested in- will there be a behaviour modification whether the case is thrown out or not.
I foresee corporate halting the sales of birkins on the store involved, in the meantime, just to let the collective chatter die first.
Poor customers on the top of the prespend list already on the precipice on receiving their offer, having to wait (and maybe spend) a little more.
Doubtful, imo. If anything, “we did nothing wrong, continue business as normal” seems much more Hermes’s style. Plus these kind of cases can drag on for several years. I could see SAs be instructed to just fall back onto the old standard “out of stock” story without embellishing about “having a relationship”.
I’d like to buy a Birkin.
-Sorry, we are all out of stock.
When will you get more?
-I really don’t know.
Can I get on a list?
- Sorry, we don’t take lists.
So how do I get one?
-You’ll just have to have lucky timing I guess.
This might actually make it easier for the long term people at the top of the client list as they are known quantities and presumably proven to be loyal to the brand and not wishing to bring harm to it.
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Who is instructing SAs to fall back to the out of stock “story”? Hermes?
That would imply Hermes is in on all of it. Which, of course, it is. But I thought we weren’t admitting that.
That would imply Hermes is in on all of it. Which, of course, it is. But I thought we weren’t admitting that.
Yes, I think it will be business as usual too. It’s not as if this issue/risk will never have occurred to H corporate before. H legal will have spent long hours crafting the policy in every legal jurisdiction where H operates, approving the wording of anything in writing (eg the signs on checkout desks) and in particular vetting the SM and SA training materials and delivery. It wouldn’t surprise me if they also used secret shoppers to test how SA’s respond to leading questions about tying etc.
Agree with posts above re business as usual. Hermes has its own business strategy and is there to make a profit. It also does quite well for its shareholders. Some people get bags, some don’t, but Hermes doesn’t owe anyone a bag. It also doesn’t owe anyone any explanation. Seems plaintiffs erroneously feel entitled to that; but, they don’t have a particularly compelling fact pattern; nor do they have an understanding of the underlying law cited in their pleadings either. For anyone who has tried to get a limited edition luxury watch or car, IMO that could be a far better case for tying than this. But, even then, a bag, a watch, a car isn’t an essential like medication. I don’t have an iota of concern for plaintiffs who waste court time and resources like this. I do have some compassion for SAs who are caught between crazed customers and very high sales goals.
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I feel pretty confident that as a company wide matter Hermes and their outside counsel have covered themselves. I’m sure there’s lots of documentation in employee handbooks and corporate communications designed to set expectations for staff behavior.
I’m equally sure (and not surprised) that after a long day fielding repetitive questions designed to pry a coveted bag from the back room, some staff may get too close to the line (if not over it) in their responses. They certainly have a financial incentive to encourage customer spending but I don’t think the practice of working on a commission basis raises antitrust concerns.
The problem for the lawsuit is that crucifying in a deposition/on the witness stand an SA who may have gone too far, isn’t likely to win the (class action) case against Hermes as a company. No corporate paper trail/smoking gun? It’s just too much blah, blah, blah and not enough legally admissible evidence to support the claim, however poorly drafted.
And as for the court of public opinion, Hermes would be thrilled if disgruntled customers organized a boycott.
I’m equally sure (and not surprised) that after a long day fielding repetitive questions designed to pry a coveted bag from the back room, some staff may get too close to the line (if not over it) in their responses. They certainly have a financial incentive to encourage customer spending but I don’t think the practice of working on a commission basis raises antitrust concerns.
The problem for the lawsuit is that crucifying in a deposition/on the witness stand an SA who may have gone too far, isn’t likely to win the (class action) case against Hermes as a company. No corporate paper trail/smoking gun? It’s just too much blah, blah, blah and not enough legally admissible evidence to support the claim, however poorly drafted.
And as for the court of public opinion, Hermes would be thrilled if disgruntled customers organized a boycott.
Exactly. This is nothing new to them, especially when something very similar like this appeared in China almost 3 years ago
Re sales training and practice
My SA has told me repeatedly that in training SAs are taught that prespend doesn’t matter and it’s the loyalty of the client that counts. That would include the conceptual art textile designer who has always been passionate about Hermes Kelly bags; the Jane Birkin Serge Gainsbourg fan; or the person who has been diligently saving for her one and only bag.
That’s why I really don’t believe that there is this malicious protocol to churn spend. But, he also told me that the reason why he couldn’t get me chypres in my size and preferred color was literally bc Hermes was caught by surprise at how popular they turned out to be. So they didn’t make enough.
I think Hermes had no idea that covid pent up spending plus social media would lead to so many people clamoring for the same thing. And, the demand hasn’t really scaled back like those who predicted recession said it would. Of course increased demand and limited supply means more people want the same thing. Hermes has to figure out how to divvie this stuff up.
My SA has told me repeatedly that in training SAs are taught that prespend doesn’t matter and it’s the loyalty of the client that counts. That would include the conceptual art textile designer who has always been passionate about Hermes Kelly bags; the Jane Birkin Serge Gainsbourg fan; or the person who has been diligently saving for her one and only bag.
That’s why I really don’t believe that there is this malicious protocol to churn spend. But, he also told me that the reason why he couldn’t get me chypres in my size and preferred color was literally bc Hermes was caught by surprise at how popular they turned out to be. So they didn’t make enough.
I think Hermes had no idea that covid pent up spending plus social media would lead to so many people clamoring for the same thing. And, the demand hasn’t really scaled back like those who predicted recession said it would. Of course increased demand and limited supply means more people want the same thing. Hermes has to figure out how to divvie this stuff up.
As someone who also has 20+ years of experience reading Complaints, I concur with all of the above.