Has Hermes moved production to different countries?
- Thread starter Ms Birkin
- Start date
TPF may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, and others
Heck no. Greed causes counterfeits.
Seriously, fakes have been made everywhere since forever, including in ancient times, including within the same society that the object originated in.
This thread has been going for quite some time, I certainly did not start it. If there is a can of worms then clearly it's been opened already.
I offered up information that was shared with me by someone who has been collecting and dealing with Hermès products for the 10 years I have known him. I have no reason to doubt that he has a much longer history than that with collecting, but I can only attest to the years that I have known him.
He and I probably looked through 200 scarves in his collection one afternoon 3 weeks ago, ranging from only a few years old to scarves from the late '50s. His depth of knowledge about the designs, the colourways and artists always makes visiting with him a pleasure.
It is of course possible that I have been uncharacteristically gullible and he was having me on. It is possible that he was completely sincere and had been mislead deliberately by his contact, who was represented as an Hermès employee and long time business friend. In instances such as this there is no perfect source. At some point however a body of evidence begins to build. And I suppose time will tell as well.
It seems likely/possible to me (and this is my opinion) that Hermès, in addition to outsourcing the hemming (which seems to be an open and accepted item) may have also outsourced at least some of the other elements of scarf production. The possibilities could be in;
the processing of the raw silk cocoons into thread
the weaving of the fabric
the finishing of the griege goods
the screening of the designs
While not a labeling law expert I am aware that there is an alarming amount of grey area to be found by manufactures who wish to take advantage of it. A firm such as Hermès would no doubt be excruciatingly careful to stay with in those boundaries if they chose to explore that grey area.the weaving of the fabric
the finishing of the griege goods
the screening of the designs
If that is the case then it would be an example of the letter of the law rather than the spirit...
It was not my expectation to generate fallout, just to share an interesting conversation that was, in my opinion, credible, with people who would have similar interest in the subject as mine... but I suppose I can put on my asbestos Brides de Gala ; -)
Now what colourway was that in....
What a lovely relationship you have with your Hermes "connection." I would love to sit with you and your friend while going through piles of silks from the ages. My kind of thing to do...
I will give you that many original scarf designs are done outside of France. I don't claim to be an expert in production of printed silk scarves. I know what I know from a few sources, including a background in offset printing, which has nothing to do with silk screening, except in the general principles of the laying of one color per screen. I'm pretty certain that the "the finishing of the griege goods" is done at the point of manufacture. What I think greige is, is the trimming that is done on the end of silk jersey scarves or silk jersey sleeves or collars. I garnered a lot of information from the artisans who so obviously care and love what they do when they spent a week in March. It was a much anticipated and eye-opening evening. I can't remember when I enjoyed myself quite so much.
Now, with you and your friend. I would love to have a person like that here. Somebody who could hold my hand, teach me what they know so I can teach hermes outsiders.
Asbestos Brides de Gala, stand back put on your big girl pants, 'cause I hear a bunch of replies being typed even as I do.
I seem to remeber reading something about the silk itself being sourced in China - since much of the worlds finest silk comes from China.... perhapps that is what he meant? But that is not a new thing started in 2005.....
*someone correct me if I am wrong - I'm going off memory here*
*someone correct me if I am wrong - I'm going off memory here*
This is very very normal and common thing to do actually. If you have any friends in the manufacturing business, just ask them.
And yes, even top brands like Hermes, LV, Chanel, etc, have certain things that are made elsewhere, shipped back to France to have the last touches done so they can place the MADE IN FRANCE label on.
According to the lecture posted in this thread:
http://forum.purseblog.com/hermes/fascinating-lecture-by-pierre-alexis-dumas-672917.html
the silk cocoons are sourced in Brazil. I think he says they are then spun and woven in France, but I'd have to re-listen to confirm that part.
A little digression here .. re: manufacturing/labels of provenance ..
Eg. Polo's embroidered iconic pony has been manufactured in China thru HK pre the Made in China labels.
I forget where it was 'Made' before their current labels.
It is highly unlikely that for any manufacturing not to go thru China in this present day and age.
Mayhaps, the cocoons are sourced in Brazil, but the species of silk worms probably came from somewhere other than Brazil. As it is normal strategic moves for companies to diversify/expand their manufacturing under stress of politics and sourcing global labor workforce.
Strictly my observations based on information collected.
Eg. Polo's embroidered iconic pony has been manufactured in China thru HK pre the Made in China labels.
I forget where it was 'Made' before their current labels.
It is highly unlikely that for any manufacturing not to go thru China in this present day and age.
Mayhaps, the cocoons are sourced in Brazil, but the species of silk worms probably came from somewhere other than Brazil. As it is normal strategic moves for companies to diversify/expand their manufacturing under stress of politics and sourcing global labor workforce.
Strictly my observations based on information collected.
This is very very normal and common thing to do actually. If you have any friends in the manufacturing business, just ask them.
I know full well high end designers outsource their production. E.g. Almost all high end designers have their shoes made in Italy. And the label says "made in Italy", some outsource their clothing production to China, and the labels will say "made in China". I've seen many of those and I don't have a problem with this. As long as one who's paying for it is happy with the product.
I just don't believe H would label a product "made in France" if it has no part of the production done in France (like some posts suggested). It is very much illegal at least in my part of the world. Making some statement again and again doesn't make that statement true! Show me physical evidence and I will believe you. Everything else, whatever you claim your source is, is just hearsay!
^
I thought they were referring to printing..? Which even by the logic of your post, could very well be done anywhere, as long as them hemming was done in france.
I don't see why people get so worked up over this anymore. The made in label is probably a bad idea these days for many reasons, one being that products and the parts that make them up are being shipped around the globe and sold and bought so many times by different parties of different nationalities before being retailed. It's very different from the "territoire" brands such as DOP AOC etc etc that hold som actual claims to the provenance and production standard of the product, which de facto act as "made in" labels. What people buy when buying in and Hermès store is a H product with all that implies in terms of quality, and that's what they should get no matter where it's made.
I thought they were referring to printing..? Which even by the logic of your post, could very well be done anywhere, as long as them hemming was done in france.
I don't see why people get so worked up over this anymore. The made in label is probably a bad idea these days for many reasons, one being that products and the parts that make them up are being shipped around the globe and sold and bought so many times by different parties of different nationalities before being retailed. It's very different from the "territoire" brands such as DOP AOC etc etc that hold som actual claims to the provenance and production standard of the product, which de facto act as "made in" labels. What people buy when buying in and Hermès store is a H product with all that implies in terms of quality, and that's what they should get no matter where it's made.
Liberté;19286928 said:
No, some of the posts are implying the whole production of some H products are done outside France, then shipped to France then have the "made in France" label stuck on. I just find that unbelievable for H to do this giving the clear illegality of such action. And I'm not sure which part of the "logic of my post" is different from yours as we all agree there could be parts of the production done outside France.
I am not worked up or anything and I'm quite happy with my purchases as long as they meet my standard of quality. I don't give a toss about where it was made.
Hi sarafinadh! 
Don't have actually problem with what you are saying and I can say that I believe most of them...!
I would like, if you have time to explain, a little better the line that I have made red! Would be most apreciated!
Thank you in advance
Don't have actually problem with what you are saying and I can say that I believe most of them...!
I would like, if you have time to explain, a little better the line that I have made red! Would be most apreciated! Thank you in advance
hi sarafinadh!
Don't have actually problem with what you are saying and i can say that i believe most of them...!
Thank you in advance
Of course! You may perhaps not be aware that Hermès, out of its typical concern and consideration of its clientele, has an especial line of scarves, made at a secret factory just outsides of Lyons in an underground facility.
Here they produce an exceptional collection of scarves using a very secret process which bonds their famous silk twill with 36" sheets of the finest asbestos tissue lawn. From this specially treated fireproof fabric they screen on their magnificent scarf designs.
Once the printing is completed the scarves are sent to Mauritania, where they are hemmed, by hand, using kryptonite thread with kevlar needles. (ordinary needles would not be strong enough to handle the kryptonite thread of course!)
Once completed they are returned to Lyons, labeled, and then emailed all over the world to those clientele foolish enough to risk public censure on internet forums.
The asbestos lining in the scarves, if donned in time, protect the poster, to some small extent at least, from the heated fallout of their rash words online. Mine came in the classic Brides de Gala design...
And I checked for you... the CW is... Flame Red, of course....
; -}