Has Hermes moved production to different countries?

[pyrexia]

The horn accessories, I believe, are handcrafted by Vietnamese artisans in their home country.

Frankly, I am less concerned with where the pieces are manufactured, but more concerned that H will stand by their commitment of quality. I expect that if H decides to "outsource" their production line because they deem a certain country's artisans are better are producing a certain item, they will take care to ensure standards are of equal quality throughout their product line. And if any item should fall through the cracks, I would also expect H to take steps to rectify it.

 

[sarafinadh]

Just back from a trip to the City of Lights.

I had an interesting conversation with my Hermès connection there. An impeccable resource, he informed me that Hermès began outsourcing the printing of the scarves to China in 2005/2006. The finishing done in France is the attachment of the labels which of course still say made in France. At Rue FsH they will tell you straight to your face that they are made in France, but it's a flat out lie.

Good news for me is I collect vintage scarves and have now made 2004 my cut off for latest date for acquisition.

His other information was that a watch he had purchased for his wife had an issue with the hands falling off. He had returned it to Rue FsH twice for repair, each time taking months to get it back. After the last repair it was inadvertently dropped in water and he opened it to dry it out. Inside he discovered a plastic made in China works. He was shocked.

Not much after that Hermès contacted him and offered, at a steep price, to take the watch that he had had so much trouble with and do a repair on it. When he quizzed them they touted the specialist who tended to these repairs and the problems that they had had with that particular watch and how complicated a watch works it was and so difficult to work on.... until he informed them he had opened the body and found the plastic works. At that point she admitted that yes the interior of the watch was plastic. And that the whole interior works, including the hands that kept falling off, could be replaced by anyone.

Caveat Emptor...

And outsourcing is never about maintaining quality. It's about maintaining profit margin...

 

[sparklelisab]

Sarah is right: "And outsourcing is never about maintaining quality. It's about maintaining profit margin..." Sadly, most who know what they are talking about due to years and years of Hermes experiece (not me, I am a newbie) over and over refer to the lower quality of H pieces. Not just Hermes, but Chanel and LV....it's supply and demand and even Hermes and their "waiting lists" (not available in US anymore) are interest in the mighty dollar/euro, etc... (sorry for the cliche)

 

[zaduzl]

Sadly, the possibility mentioned by Sarah saying that printing of scarves has been outsourced to China, has made me very much down.
I booked a scarf which I have been longing for and now I feel really disappointed and very much reluctant to buy it.
I would not like to start any discussion, however - if there is no lower quality related to China outsourcing, why doesn't Hermes openly say that and stop repeating the statements about the scarves (and other goods) made in France.
Obviously, there is a quality related to "made in France", otherwise they would not hide the fact that something is not made in France.
(It is impossible to relate today's craftmanship in China to Marco Polo period, for sure - there has been discontinuity which has obviously affected today's level, although I do not intend to talk about that level. However, I feel unwell for the possibility that my to-be-scarf might be made anywhere but in the place which has been renowned for its silk production for a remarkably long period of time (which is behind the Hermes' tag) and it might be made in any other place which has not been openly revealed by Hermes (which China surely hasn't been) - I guess we are paying high price tags to get the best and feel very much assured it is the best from the best possible source.)
We believe in Hermes tradition, crafstmen, image, we rely on statements and messages they are sending to us in that spirit - therefore we are entitled to demand the level in line with what have been communicated to us.
If Hermes says that the scarves are made in France - I want my scarf to be made in France! Tradition, respect and best service for premium price do not include misleading statements and hiding the facts from customers.

 

[jmen]

Sadly, the possibility mentioned by Sarah saying that printing of scarves has been outsourced to China, has made me very much down.
I booked a scarf which I have been longing for and now I feel really disappointed and very much reluctant to buy it.
I would not like to start any discussion, however - if there is no lower quality related to China outsourcing, why doesn't Hermes openly say that and stop repeating the statements about the scarves (and other goods) made in France.
Obviously, there is a quality related to "made in France", otherwise they would not hide the fact that something is not made in France.
(It is impossible to relate today's craftmanship in China to Marco Polo period, for sure - there has been discontinuity which has obviously affected today's level, although I do not intend to talk about that level. However, I feel unwell for the possibility that my to-be-scarf might be made anywhere but in the place which has been renowned for its silk production for a remarkably long period of time (which is behind the Hermes' tag) and it might be made in any other place which has not been openly revealed by Hermes (which China surely hasn't been) - I guess we are paying high price tags to get the best and feel very much assured it is the best from the best possible source.)
We believe in Hermes tradition, crafstmen, image, we rely on statements and messages they are sending to us in that spirit - therefore we are entitled to demand the level in line with what have been communicated to us.
If Hermes says that the scarves are made in France - I want my scarf to be made in France! Tradition, respect and best service for premium price do not include misleading statements and hiding the facts from customers.

I'm am shocked to hear the scarves are not printed in France. Do we place all the blame on these luxury houses when laws that allow such labeling loopholes to exist? Obviously, there is need to close the loopholes, to disclose to the consumer the point"s" of origin and not the place where a label or a stamp affixed. Such loopholes and trade inequities resulted in the loss of the major U.S. steel manufacturers back in the early 80s and I won't start a riot by saying by which companies and companies. Trade and all that encompasses is a global issue and one that has kicked us in the bread basket both literally and figureatively. Large corporations more often than not write the rules in this country. Yes, it is always about money, about the profit margin but if we the consumer are to play on a level playing field, I'd like the directions to that level playing field. The alternative is to stop supporting deceit by not purchasing. How many of us are willing to go that far?

 

[LVuittonLuvr]

I was at the Hermès Festival des Métiers here in Virginia a few months back and they said that all scarves and ties are STILL printed in Lyon, France. It is the pride of Lyon that Hermès still keeps their factories there. Even the silk is woven there.

I highly doubt that the scarves are printed in China. You only need to see the level of pride that the two Lyonnaise artisans were exuding during their demonstration.

 

[Balto Bag Lady]

Just back from a trip to the City of Lights.

I had an interesting conversation with my Hermès connection there. An impeccable resource, he informed me that Hermès began outsourcing the printing of the scarves to China in 2005/2006. The finishing done in France is the attachment of the labels which of course still say made in France. At Rue FsH they will tell you straight to your face that they are made in France, but it's a flat out lie.

Good news for me is I collect vintage scarves and have now made 2004 my cut off for latest date for acquisition.

His other information was that a watch he had purchased for his wife had an issue with the hands falling off. He had returned it to Rue FsH twice for repair, each time taking months to get it back. After the last repair it was inadvertently dropped in water and he opened it to dry it out. Inside he discovered a plastic made in China works. He was shocked.

Not much after that Hermès contacted him and offered, at a steep price, to take the watch that he had had so much trouble with and do a repair on it. When he quizzed them they touted the specialist who tended to these repairs and the problems that they had had with that particular watch and how complicated a watch works it was and so difficult to work on.... until he informed them he had opened the body and found the plastic works. At that point she admitted that yes the interior of the watch was plastic. And that the whole interior works, including the hands that kept falling off, could be replaced by anyone.

Caveat Emptor...

And outsourcing is never about maintaining quality. It's about maintaining profit margin...

Sarah, a couple of things bother me about your post. One, this is your second post, so you are new member of the purse forum. We welcome you and your opinions we open arms and open minds. But, saying that your connection with Hermes (which I believe not to be an employee of Hermes) would tell you such things. The printing of the scarves may well be done in China, but I, for one, cannot believe it. I know that they do send the scarves out to be rolled to Mauritania or some such place as than.
The timepiece. Wow. and double wow. Why would Hermes allow the watch to come back to repair after they knew you opened it. This would cancel any warranty or even relationship with Hermes concerning the watch I would think. And, maybe fine timepieces have plastic in them, but not being an horologist, I wouldn't know.
Sarah, I think you have opened a can of worms. And I hope you are prepared for the fallout which is bound to follow.

 

[lolakitten]

I was at the Hermès Festival des Métiers here in Virginia a few months back and they said that all scarves and ties are STILL printed in Lyon, France. It is the pride of Lyon that Hermès still keeps their factories there. Even the silk is woven there.

I highly doubt that the scarves are printed in China. You only need to see the level of pride that the two Lyonnaise artisans were exuding during their demonstration.

They're not. I'll be in Lyon this fall & was invited to view/witness the silk production in LYON.

 

[silkstarh]

I'm having a hard time buying any of Sarafinadh's post. She may honestly believe her source, but I don't believe any of it for a second. I think her "impeccable resource" was having a lot of BS'ing fun at her naive expense.

There's no way H could keep Chinese scarf production a secret for so many years, and why would they, if it were true, since they are so forthcoming about the other products they outsource. Are all those employees at the workshop in Lyon just poseurs to throw everyone off the track? Uh, don't think so.

Also, regulations in all countries require that at least a portion of the work be done in the labeled country of origin, even if initial production was outsourced to China or wherever. You can't just put a made in France or Italy tag on something unless significant work on the item is done in that country, so that part of his story is completely false.

Plus, do any H stores actually do their own watch repairs or accept them for service? My store (which is large and has a leather craftsman and seamstresses on site) refers you to a local, reputable dealer for repairs. The only part of any of this story that rings true to me is the SA's uneducated roundabout excuses (although I've thankfully never had personal experience with such).

 

[jmen]

I was at the Hermès Festival des Métiers here in Virginia a few months back and they said that all scarves and ties are STILL printed in Lyon, France. It is the pride of Lyon that Hermès still keeps their factories there. Even the silk is woven there.

I highly doubt that the scarves are printed in China. You only need to see the level of pride that the two Lyonnaise artisans were exuding during their demonstration.

I, too,was at the presentation in Virginia and that's why I'm shocked but it would be entirely possible, for instance, for the craftspersons in France to ink the sheets that then go elsewhere for the printing of the scarves. My objection comes from the looseness of regulations that allows misrepresentation to buyers. I would imagine that should the quality of the scarves diminish then so would sales. Other than recent complaints of the GM cashmere being thinner of late, the silks appear to be a beautiful works of art. And I don't care if they are made in Dante's Inferno as long as the label so states.

 

[sdsurfchick]

Just back from a trip to the City of Lights.

I had an interesting conversation with my Hermès connection there. An impeccable resource, he informed me that Hermès began outsourcing the printing of the scarves to China in 2005/2006. The finishing done in France is the attachment of the labels which of course still say made in France. At Rue FsH they will tell you straight to your face that they are made in France, but it's a flat out lie.

Good news for me is I collect vintage scarves and have now made 2004 my cut off for latest date for acquisition.

His other information was that a watch he had purchased for his wife had an issue with the hands falling off. He had returned it to Rue FsH twice for repair, each time taking months to get it back. After the last repair it was inadvertently dropped in water and he opened it to dry it out. Inside he discovered a plastic made in China works. He was shocked.

Not much after that Hermès contacted him and offered, at a steep price, to take the watch that he had had so much trouble with and do a repair on it. When he quizzed them they touted the specialist who tended to these repairs and the problems that they had had with that particular watch and how complicated a watch works it was and so difficult to work on.... until he informed them he had opened the body and found the plastic works. At that point she admitted that yes the interior of the watch was plastic. And that the whole interior works, including the hands that kept falling off, could be replaced by anyone.

Caveat Emptor...

And outsourcing is never about maintaining quality. It's about maintaining profit margin...

sarafinadh, with all due respect, you need a new Hermes connection.

 

[Balto Bag Lady]

xxx

it is nearly physically impossible to ink 30 screens, send them anywhere for printing, and then send them back to Paris for re-inking. EVen just a few blocks or miles. The material must stay in a stable environment. The the Festival,the items being printing weren't good enough even to be thrown away. They had to be shredded to so not to be worn in error. It doesn't make any sense at all. The ink's going to dry, it's going to become unstable, it won't prove anything anyway. It's kind of a goofy point.

xxx

 

[Brooklynite]

I can care less about the origin. I'm willing to pay price for the quality, made in France or not. As long as they keep the quality control tight, I don't care where they produce them (as long as they are honest).

 

[chkpfbeliever]

Let's not blindly believe in the countries of origin and every news from H or non H source. The fact of the matter is that all luxury houses ( and even everyday P&G consumer products) are going after for more profits. China or other third world countries may offer workmanship at par or slightly lower or higher than France. It is up to the brand to do everything they can to protect its integrity.

I would not be surprised that one day that some of the other non Kellys and birkins bags may be outsourced to other countries once they find the qualified artisans to do it. It is just too tempting not to do that. This is similar to a few months ago when H announced that they will not be taken over by LV but yet I read that some H family members have sold their stock last month.

Fact of life is never say 'never'. Buy only what you like and never blindly fall in love with any brand.

 

[chicinthecity777]

Just back from a trip to the City of Lights.

I had an interesting conversation with my Hermès connection there. An impeccable resource, he informed me that Hermès began outsourcing the printing of the scarves to China in 2005/2006. The finishing done in France is the attachment of the labels which of course still say made in France. At Rue FsH they will tell you straight to your face that they are made in France, but it's a flat out lie.

Good news for me is I collect vintage scarves and have now made 2004 my cut off for latest date for acquisition.

His other information was that a watch he had purchased for his wife had an issue with the hands falling off. He had returned it to Rue FsH twice for repair, each time taking months to get it back. After the last repair it was inadvertently dropped in water and he opened it to dry it out. Inside he discovered a plastic made in China works. He was shocked.

Not much after that Hermès contacted him and offered, at a steep price, to take the watch that he had had so much trouble with and do a repair on it. When he quizzed them they touted the specialist who tended to these repairs and the problems that they had had with that particular watch and how complicated a watch works it was and so difficult to work on.... until he informed them he had opened the body and found the plastic works. At that point she admitted that yes the interior of the watch was plastic. And that the whole interior works, including the hands that kept falling off, could be replaced by anyone.

Caveat Emptor...

And outsourcing is never about maintaining quality. It's about maintaining profit margin...

Sorry but unless you can show me some physical proof, I don't believe this "source". To label a product not produced in France "Made in France", it's not just un-ethical, it's in fact illegal! I don't believe for a high profile, legitimate, long history, national treasure French company, Hermes would risk its hundreds years' reputation to do such a thing!