EBAY TRANSACTION HELP PLEASE

[vernis-lover]

Long story, short. Ish.

Personal seller, don't sell very much. I have a "no returns" policy for this reason and for abuse of the returns policy in the past. After this, I think this will be my last time selling on ebay. I don't enjoy being abused like this.

Buyer purchases item on eBay. 10 days after receipt (no communication via messages) buyer opens return request on eBay stating they bought the wrong colour. I explain the colour was accurately listed using the manufacturer's colour name. Buyer says they accept that but they bought the wrong one and would like to return to refund. I discuss this with ebay who say it's up to me.

Heart says refund the buyer just to avoid hassle. Head says hang on a minute, yet again you are being held responsible by an entitled buyer who thinks someone else is responsible for their mistakes. So I sleep on it. I decide, the following morning, to refuse the return request.

A few minutes after refusing the request I get the following from the buyer:
07:27
Good morning to you too and welcome to PayPal disputes.

07:33
I am going to wipe your scammer face in dirt on PayPal. You wait and see. I will show you how taking advantage of people tastes like. I hope you ****ing get hit by a bus, get cancer you dear loved ones get diagnosed with diseases and remember me with a smile when it happens for scamming others.

Obviously reported to eBay but I don't expect any action to be taken against the buyer. I have not replied to this message and will not.

About an hour later dispute is opened on PP for "not as described" stating the colour wasn't clear (how much clearer can you be than the manufacturer colour?) Buyer has also used my argument against me in this PP dispute by saying there is more than one shade of this colour from this manufacturer (there is but only one with this particular name). Buyer states they approached me amicably about a refund (messages via refund request were amicable) but I still refused the refund. Strangely no mention to PP of the abusive message they sent!!

So the buyer didn't use "not as described" for the eBay dispute - they chose whatever the equivalent of wrong colour purchased is.

So my question is: is it worth fighting the PP dispute? Chances of winning? Or just refund?

Thanks for any advice you have.

 

[chicinthecity777]

The buyer is a scum! Personally I would fight this. I would take the screenshots of the abusive email and upload it to PP dispute centre and I would call PP to ask them to review. You can prove that this scumbag wasn't amicable and they are a liar!

I have fought a partial charge-back before. I uploaded the screenshots of the buyer's several message via eBay and wrote a step by step "what happened" description. I won the case. Good luck!

 

[holiday123]

Uggh awful buyer, can you post the id do we can block?

I always accept returns in my listings because it's just not worth the hassle (and 99%of the time if you refuse a return, the buyer opens SNAD and eBay loves siding with buyers.)

By accepting returns, it enables me to charge a restock fee. I also charge for shipping because when you offer free shipping and the item is returned, you can't deduct your original shipping cost from the refund.

I have found 1) that only about <1% of my items are returned 2) by offering returns, I haven't had any SNAD to force a return 3) no complaints on the restock fee. I don't know if I'm just lucky or what? Feedback over 4000 so I've encountered some crazy buyers.

That said, if a buyer sent me that abusive message, I would fight it and ignore any messages from them moving forward. Only communicate through the dispute.

 

[vernis-lover]

Uggh awful buyer, can you post the id do we can block?

Will happily post once resolved, one way or the other.

I always accept returns in my listings because it's just not worth the hassle (and 99%of the time if you refuse a return, the buyer opens SNAD and eBay loves siding with buyers.)

Used to accept returns and have indeed done so as good-will gestures even but enough was enough this year. I take oodles of pictures and offer very detailed descriptions highlighting each flaw but get fed up of people "renting" my items for weddings and functions. I get fed up of people saying "I know you disclosed this flaw on the listing and photographed it but now I have it, I just can't live with it" or "I bought this for a client and the client doesn't want it so need to return it to you". I don't know if this is more rife in the UK than the US? Either way it's tiring, especially when it happens several days/weeks after receipt.

By accepting returns, it enables me to charge a restock fee. I also charge for shipping because when you offer free shipping and the item is returned, you can't deduct your original shipping cost from the refund.

I don't think that is the same as on eBay UK.

I have found 1) that only about <1% of my items are returned 2) by offering returns, I haven't had any SNAD to force a return 3) no complaints on the restock fee. I don't know if I'm just lucky or what? Feedback over 4000 so I've encountered some crazy buyers.

Lucky compared to me!

That said, if a buyer sent me that abusive message, I would fight it and ignore any messages from them moving forward. Only communicate through the dispute.

I have no intention of communicating with his delusional buyer. I just wondered what the consensus of opinion would be on fighting the PP dispute or not. Already won the eBay dispute. Shame it's not the days when you could only open one or the other and couldn't double-dip!

 

[vernis-lover]

The buyer is a scum! Personally I would fight this. I would take the screenshots of the abusive email and upload it to PP dispute centre and I would call PP to ask them to review. You can prove that this scumbag wasn't amicable and they are a liar!

I have fought a partial charge-back before. I uploaded the screenshots of the buyer's several message via eBay and wrote a step by step "what happened" description. I won the case. Good luck!

Thank you for your feedback. If there was a guarantee of winning I'd definitely go for it but because it's a he says/she says situation, just wondered what people would do (or, indeed, if anyone had any experience of winning these things)! Good to know you won.

 

[holiday123]

According to PayPal (USA) buyer protection:

Below a number of examples for items that do not qualify as SNAD; this list is not exhaustive.

• The item is defective but was not described as such in the item description: "Device may not work properly", "Parts missing", "The photo shows scratches or defects";
• The Buyer does not want the item anymore after having received it or the item does not meet the buyers expectations, even though it has been described appropriately in the item description;
• The item description is misleading for both parties. For instance, if the item appears to come in a different color than advertised; the Buyer calls it “light green”, while the seller states it to be “turquois”.

PayPal decides each case individually by requesting and reviewing documentation to determine whether or not an item is significantly not as described.

Looks like color isn't a reason for SNAD.

I did have that exact SNAD about a decade ago - mfg called color teal, I listed as teal, buyer opens SNAD saying bag was green. I deny return, buyer escalates and incessantly calls PayPal until PayPal folds and sides with buyer. Quickest decision ever that took them less than 1 hour.

Now it's clear in the policy color isn't a reason for SNAD. Hopefully it's the same in your country and if so, quote the policy to them.

 

[holiday123]

More:
6.4 Buyer Protection offered either by PayPal or eBay

PayPal will refuse a Claim under PayPal Buyer Protection in case the Buyer has already been granted a payout in relation to the same purchase in the scope of the eBay Buyer Protection program. Further, you may not file a Claim with PayPal Buyer Protection, if in relation to the same purchase you have already filed a Claim with an eBay Buyer Protection program.

 

[vernis-lover]

More:
6.4 Buyer Protection offered either by PayPal or eBay

PayPal will refuse a Claim under PayPal Buyer Protection in case the Buyer has already been granted a payout in relation to the same purchase in the scope of the eBay Buyer Protection program. Further, you may not file a Claim with PayPal Buyer Protection, if in relation to the same purchase you have already filed a Claim with an eBay Buyer Protection program.

Thanks but think that reads as you can't have simultaneous claims open? The buyer doesn't have simultaneous claims opened; they opened with PP after their refund on eBay was declined.

 

[vernis-lover]

According to PayPal (USA) buyer protection:

Below a number of examples for items that do not qualify as SNAD; this list is not exhaustive.

• The item is defective but was not described as such in the item description: "Device may not work properly", "Parts missing", "The photo shows scratches or defects";
• The Buyer does not want the item anymore after having received it or the item does not meet the buyers expectations, even though it has been described appropriately in the item description;
• The item description is misleading for both parties. For instance, if the item appears to come in a different color than advertised; the Buyer calls it “light green”, while the seller states it to be “turquois”.

PayPal decides each case individually by requesting and reviewing documentation to determine whether or not an item is significantly not as described.

Looks like color isn't a reason for SNAD.

I did have that exact SNAD about a decade ago - mfg called color teal, I listed as teal, buyer opens SNAD saying bag was green. I deny return, buyer escalates and incessantly calls PayPal until PayPal folds and sides with buyer. Quickest decision ever that took them less than 1 hour.

Now it's clear in the policy color isn't a reason for SNAD. Hopefully it's the same in your country and if so, quote the policy to them.

Will see if that's present in UK T&C - thank you for looking.

 

[ThisVNchick]

Thanks but think that reads as you can't have simultaneous claims open? The buyer doesn't have simultaneous claims opened; they opened with PP after their refund on eBay was declined.

I would still call (I really insist on calling for a case like this) paypal and tell them that the buyer had already filed a case on eBay and loss regarding the color issue. Screenshot and forward everything over. Ask to speak to a supervisor if you feel like the agent is of no help. I think you have a strong case and a high chance of winning if you are persistent. On top of that, you have that abusive message that you can also forward which shows that the buyer is trying to drag you through the mud yet again, this time, maybe more for revenge (for losing the eBay case) rather than for a valid reason (not like she had one in the first place to open the initial claim).

 

[holiday123]

Thanks but think that reads as you can't have simultaneous claims open? The buyer doesn't have simultaneous claims opened; they opened with PP after their refund on eBay was declined.

I just read it as 1) no double dipping and 2) if you've filed and lost on eBay then you can't try again on PayPal, but I've never personally tested it.

How did it go down on eBay? Did she request a return, you deny and then case closed or did she escalate and eBay decide in your favor? Again different countries different processes, but if eBay decided in your favor, you can add that as documentation to the PayPal dispute to show case was already settled.

 

[vernis-lover]

I just read it as 1) no double dipping and 2) if you've filed and lost on eBay then you can't try again on PayPal, but I've never personally tested it.

How did it go down on eBay? Did she request a return, you deny and then case closed or did she escalate and eBay decide in your favor? Again different countries different processes, but if eBay decided in your favor, you can add that as documentation to the PayPal dispute to show case was already settled.

I'd never seen it before but I had the option to refuse the refund on the dispute screen. I spoke with an eBay rep who said it was "up to you" but there was no obligation to refund as it wasn't a "not as described" case. The buyer actually wrote on the eBay screen:
"I am not contesting you marked the item wrong at all in your description. As I said previously in my earlier message I did not clearly know the color was leaning towards burgundy."
(earlier message refers to my item not matching the item they had bought it to go with).

So I refused the refund.

 

[holiday123]

I'd never seen it before but I had the option to refuse the refund on the dispute screen. I spoke with an eBay rep who said it was "up to you" but there was no obligation to refund was it wasn't a "not as described" case. The buyer actually wrote on the eBay screen:
"I am not contesting you marked the item wrong at all in your description. As I said previously in my earlier message I did not clearly know the color was leaning towards burgundy."
(earlier message refers to my item not matching the item they had bought it to go with).

So I refused the refund.

Ok so that should be all you need to show PayPal. You don't accept returns, buyer opens return request with eBay (not a SNAD so nothing for eBay to decide) buyer clearly states you accurately described item, you deny return as is your right under your no returns policy. Buyer is sour grapes, gets abusive and retaliates by opening a SNAD in PayPal. PayPal policy doesn't deal with disputes based on color disagreements so should decide in your favor. Should being the key term here because they are unpredictable and if your buyer calls them incessantly, they may side with her just to shut her up. It's definitely worth the fight as you have the facts on your side.

 

[skyqueen]

WOW! What an unhinged scumbag! All this over a bag because she didn't like the color? After that message, on principle alone, I'd fight it. I'd be afraid to accept my bag back, especially after 10 days...she could have used it as a rental. Of course after trying eBay and now PP (if you win), expect a CC chargeback. Awful situation...good luck!
Post her ID...hopefully @BeenBurned will chime in!

 

[vernis-lover]

WOW! What an unhinged scumbag! All this over a bag because she didn't like the color? After that message, on principle alone, I'd fight it. I'd be afraid to accept my bag back, especially after 10 days...she could have used it as a rental. Of course after trying eBay and now PP (if you win), expect a CC chargeback. Awful situation...good luck!
Post her ID...hopefully @BeenBurned will chime in!

Thanks!
Interestingly, buyer used business address as shipping address. Buyer works for major CC provider. Am rather tempted to write a letter to their HR department if a CC chargeback follows ....... (presuming I win this PP "fight" that is!)