DISCUSS the Hermes AT Thread

[Megs]

And in addition to my previous comments, I don't see the reason for a new AT thread right now, honestly. A new AT thread could be established when there are experienced authenticators posting on the thread if not 24/7 at least a majority of the time. Otherwise starting a new thread right now just feels like sweeping the problems under the carpet.

If there were a new thread, possibly new and unknown people would start authenticating and the old thread would drop out of sight. Of course there would be the caveat of 'this is someone's opinion only', but is it worth the risk of that happening? Long-term members would know who to approach personally if they need help; new members would not.

A new thread is actually needed because of the number of posts in the current AT thread. It is by no way to sweep issues under the carpet.

I have to be honest, I did not realize there was an issue with this until a few days ago. I was not contacted about it until then so I had no idea. Right now Vlad and I are trying to see what can be helpful for all people involved.

 

[Megs]

^ My post above sounds silly, the second part at least. So I want to clarify.

I really do not know about the entire situation. So a reported post to me takes me to page 574 of the AT thread where I do not know or understand what has been bottling up and going on for a long time. My actions or words may then not be right on queue with what has been going on or transpired. I did try to read up and catch up on it all to see how I could be helpful.

So now I think I need to just ask, what can Vlad or I do to be helpful in this situation? Anyone is welcome to post in here or PM me/Vlad or whomever you are comfortable with.

 

[ardneish]

Something that has bothered me for a very long time is the notion that we must keep the details of authentic bags etc out of threads and away from "the counterfeiters".

I think Jag said it best in one of her posts in the AT thread.



The fakes existed long before The Purse Forum and unfortunately, will continue whether we post details of authentic bags or not.

With regard to the "burn out question" , IMO, there is no excuse for rudeness...whether burned out or not.

JMHO

We have to realize that members live in many different countries with different cultures and ofen are not writing in their native language firstly so allowances should be made.

Secondly and more importantly if there is an issue with an experienced and valued member who has given hours and hours of there time, the mods or other members should take that matter up in private via Pm or e mail and really should not devalue that member in public.
Just my thoughts

 

[ardneish]

Your suggestion has some merit, but the problem with a rule book approach is that ultimately authentication comes down to a judgment call based on extensive experience seeing and handling the objects. In the end you can't give someone a set of rules to go by and tell them to get to it, authenticate. This approach would rule out only the most egregious fakes.

I was a museum curator in another career, and I still get paid lots of money to look at things and tell people to buy or not to buy. I happily give my clients a few details that inform my decision, but often they can't see the details that are so glaringly wrong to me. In the end, my judgment of fake or authentic in my professional or collecting arenas comes down to an internal visual library of seeing and handling thousands of similar items. This hard-earned experience can't be duplicated with a rule book, and often can't be explained.

The free and volunteer authentication service that has been offered here on tPF could cost anywhere from $150 per hour to a flat fee of 1-2K if one hired an outside expert, depending on the bag. My fees are exorbitant, and I've been startled at how expensive it can be to hire someone to authenticate the more expensive Hermes bags. The AT thread and the volunteer authenticators should def. be recognized for the gifts they so openly gave the subforum members and complete strangers.

Such wise words!

 

[livethelake]

^ ardneish - I'm sorry but I honestly don't understand your response to my comments.

 

[ardneish]

I totally agree with this. When I started buying Chloe bags, I "authenticated" by following a few rules provided by the subforum regulars. But as I bought and sold Chloe bags, I started being able to see the leather quality - so that, even if some technical details seemed correct on a bag being sold, I could tell whether it was fake or not - and I started being able to tell even what year the bag had been made. The only way I could do this is by having handled and seen a lot of bags.

BUT - and the reason why I suggested this in the first place - is because I was trying to think of a way to help with the problem of "authenticator burnout." I'm not trying to think of a way to train a new group of authenticators. I just thought that if there were a kind of "rule book," then we as a subforum could get easily dismiss the items that could be deemed fake using those rules, so that the experienced authenticators could handle the more subtle cases.

The fakers are updating there foul products all the time and getting very good at what they do

I for one would not give away any of my experience in the work I currently do in my homelife unless someone offered me a very substantial sum. Its taken me years to gain the knowledge and heartache so why give anyone else a shortcut and therefore and advantage.

With regards to H,
I am not as experienced as some of the members including Hello, Pepper, Mrs Sparkles along with Flossy , Fleur etc but I am good in certain areas
I do not think its a good idea at all to openly give out information that could fall into the wrong hands, why make the fakers life easier than it already is, a fake in my book is theft from an individual of there hard earned funds and that is wrong. With regard to authenticator burn out, I think members need to look a bit deeper into that one.

I really think they should be contacted to find out just why they are " burned out".
I personally miss them and think the thread is going to truly suffer without them,

 

[ardneish]

^ ardneish - I'm sorry but I honestly don't understand your response to my comments.

Simpe some authenticators may appear rude to you, and other members however bear in mind that they may live in another country, English may not be their native language and because of these two things bearing in mind you cannot see facial expression etc etc because it is the internet the perception of " rudeness" may be incorrect.

 

[ardneish]

And in addition to my previous comments, I don't see the reason for a new AT thread right now, honestly. A new AT thread could be established when there are experienced authenticators posting on the thread if not 24/7 at least a majority of the time. Otherwise starting a new thread right now just feels like sweeping the problems under the carpet.

If there were a new thread, possibly new and unknown people would start authenticating and the old thread would drop out of sight. Of course there would be the caveat of 'this is someone's opinion only', but is it worth the risk of that happening? Long-term members would know who to approach personally if they need help; new members would not.

Love the Avator but I think it should be an owl
Because you are wise!

 

[lilpicotin]

Something that has bothered me for a very long time is the notion that we must keep the details of authentic bags etc out of threads and away from "the counterfeiters".

I think Jag said it best in one of her posts in the AT thread.



The fakes existed long before The Purse Forum and unfortunately, will continue whether we post details of authentic bags or not.

With regard to the "burn out question" , IMO, there is no excuse for rudeness...whether burned out or not.

JMHO

I agree with all of what livethelake said here.

Also, the "rudeness" that I saw on the thread was a general attitude, not one particular comment by one particular authenticator, so it's kind of hard to privately call out one particular member. I think the point was to make it clear that certain attitudes should not be expressed in the AT thread...

and also... having seen many of their posts in other parts of the forum, I do believe our "experienced" authenticators are extremely friendly, giving, generous, and classy people... and that sometimes, certain posts do get misconstrued. This is, after all, an internet forum, where it's easy to take statements out of context of intention. But likewise, I'd like to see that benefit of the doubt being shared both ways... with experts/regulars and newbies alike.

 

[livethelake]

Simpe some authenticators may appear rude to you, and other members however bear in mind that they may live in another country, English may not be their native language and because of these two things bearing in mind you cannot see facial expression etc etc because it is the internet the perception of " rudeness" may be incorrect.

That might be true in some cases, however, it does not apply to the posts I am referencing.

 

[merika]

^I know what posts you reference, and in my opinion if someone was rude it's not necessary to be impolite right back.

This may be a bad example, but there are members who intentionally post reveals of fake bags. If a member's bag is found to be fake, the moderators remove the offending thread and deal with the member in private. I would expect other misdemeanors to be dealt with in the same fashion, not with a public ass-whuppin.

 

[ardneish]

Fair enough livethelake
but everyone is different , and perhaps it would be better if its taken to PM, and to weigh the good against the occasional blip
I am dyslexic and struggle with my posts at times, a member was quite waspy to me once but they did not know I had this problem so I took it with a pinch of salt.

Anyhow less from me now, I like to try and help as I so hate people being ripped of but at the end of the day people have to put themselves first and if too much time is being spent on the forum which I am doing I then say to myself I have to get on and do other things.

 

[lilpicotin]

^I know what posts you reference, and in my opinion if someone was rude it's not necessary to be impolite right back.

This may be a bad example, but there are members who intentionally post reveals of fake bags. If a member's bag is found to be fake, the moderators remove the offending thread and deal with the member in private. I would expect other misdemeanors to be dealt with in the same fashion, not with a public ass-whuppin.

And yet other members' infractions are publicly called out often too - when threads are closed or posts are revised without the member's consent, with comments by the mod or someone else about why the comments are being removed. These public admonitions are not meant to be impolite or to embarrass the particular poster, they're just to enforce certain rules and to remind other members what those rules are.

I guess I saw Swanky's and jag's (and my own, I guess) posts not as a direct recrimination of individual behavior, but more as a plea to not engage in that behavior. I'm not the only one who feels that this subforum can feel exclusive and clubby at times, and when a new poster is essentially publicly trashed and accused of being a fraud, that solidifies that feeling not just by the new poster, but by other forum members as well.

I'm posting about this a lot now because I would hope that both sides can work something out. I have a lot to learn myself, and it is important to me to hear the other side as well so that I understand what's going on. But I would also hope that other members can hear what I have to say with an open mind and the understanding that I'm not out to get anyone on a personal level.

 

[merika]

I just think after weeks and and of the thread being in disarray, with posters coming in and posting and reposting many, many times:

Member: "Is this bag authentic? [LINK]"

Authenticator A: "No, I'd pass on it"

Authenticator B: "I don't much like the looks of it. I will wait for another authenticator to chime in"

Member: "But I talked to the seller and HE said it was authentic!"

Authenticator C: "Would a seller tell you if he was selling a fake? I don't think it's authentic"

Member: "But I showed it to my friend and SHE said it was authentic. Do you still think it's a fake? He has another auction. Do you think that auction [LINK] is authentic."

Authenticator D: "I think it's a fake"

Member: "But he says he got it from Bergdorf! Do you still think it's a fake?"

Authenticators generally get no help in dealing with members who question, push or sometimes attack them for providing opinions they do not like to hear. Many people and many sellers come on the thread and attack the authenticators themselves, ask them for their credentials, ask them rude questions and not much attention is paid to that. No wonder the people who authenticate get tired of dealing. And then when a few authenticators express their annoyance at something, to come down on them, with no attention paid to past events in the thread itself is IMO not fair.

 

[jessie77]

I just think after weeks and and of the thread being in disarray, with posters coming in and posting and reposting many, many times:

Member: "Is this bag authentic? [LINK]"

Authenticator A: "No, I'd pass on it"

Authenticator B: "I don't much like the looks of it. I will wait for another authenticator to chime in"

Member: "But I talked to the seller and HE said it was authentic!"

Authenticator C: "Would a seller tell you if he was selling a fake? I don't think it's authentic"

Member: "But I showed it to my friend and SHE said it was authentic. Do you still think it's a fake? He has another auction. Do you think that auction [LINK] is authentic."

Authenticator D: "I think it's a fake"

Member: "But he says he got it from Bergdorf! Do you still think it's a fake?"

Authenticators generally get no help in dealing with members who question, push or sometimes attack them for providing opinions they do not like to hear. Many people and many sellers come on the thread and attack the authenticators themselves, ask them for their credentials, ask them rude questions and not much attention is paid to that. No wonder the people who authenticate get tired of dealing. And then when a few authenticators express their annoyance at something, to come down on them, with no attention paid to past events in the thread itself is IMO not fair.

ITA- this thread moves fast and sometimes answers may seem curt,
but we are getting this "service" free. I understand why harsh words
are sometimes written- people ask stupid questions and tell ridiculous "why I'm selling it" stories.