DISCUSS the Hermes AT Thread

[Leah]

To BlueGenes point, this is perhaps an opportunity for (other) forum members knowledgable in Hermes to help in the authentication thread. I understand that the regular members on the AT Thread probably need a well-deserved break after volunteering so much of their time and energy to help hundreds of potential buyers make better informed decisions. In the meantime, it's very nice to see that other tPF members have stepped up to the plate.

I was a member of a very old Hermes bags forum, perhaps one of the very first discussion groups on Hermes bags established (this was a yahoo groups set up sometime in 2001 by a very nice lady called Alexandra or Sharyn).
That was a smaller, more intimate group but the expertise and wealth of information from that group was incredible. Not H newbies or recent H converts, some members were true lifelong collectors of H bags with decades of experience.

That group kind of fizzled out over the years but I remember the members took turns authenticating items (back when there weren't even that many H bags on E-bay) . Therefore the "work" and burden were shared by several members. Megs, perhaps this is something that can be practiced here? Some sort of team tagging? It also promotes the concept of best practice sharing so more people learn about H, which I think is linked to what BlueGenes mentioned in her post.

I know a few of those from the old H board are also here on tpf and in fact occasionally help out on the AT thread. It would be great to avail of their expertise on the AT thread.

The sharing of knowledge - among trusted people of course - is always a good thing and helps extend the appreciation for these bags.

 

[kurmusic]

Just wanted to endorse everything said above. Is there any way of directing newbies to the reference threads and encouraging them to do a bit of research first (thereby increasing their own knowledge as well) before launching into requests for urgent help? Is there a way in which specific information in the reference threads could be accessed more readily?

Selfish people like me are sorrowful at the the thought of possibly losing access to the fund of knowledge and expertise, hitherto so generously and freely given, reposing in our experts. How can they be drawn back in?

And, Ardneish, do take care. I'm not geographically that remote from you and can tell you this 'flu can last a MONTH followed by the exhausted aftermath ... and sometimes pneumonia. It is devastating.

 

[Sammyjoe]

I think the authenticators and mods provide a very very valuable service. They have saved so many people countless sums of money over the time the thread was first started.

From my point of view a few things -

I am not an authenticator.

I think quite a few people that regularly use this site fall into this camp.

What would in my view be useful if we can keep our eye on the AT thread so when new members join they are directed to the correct format to post.

We can scan the post and see if it has one of the trusted resellers to make the process easier for the authenticators.

The authenticators can carry on and hopefully burn out will be minimum if at all.

 

[Megs]

Sorry I didn't chime in sooner.

I think that it sounds like many that spend time authenticating are feeling burned out and are getting perturbed by all they do. I have no idea how much time they put into it, but looking over the thread it seems like they put a ton of time, effort, and energy into it all. I can understand why in the very least they would like to see a format followed to make it easier for them.

The only problem I foresee is that many new members, who literally make their first, second, and third post on this board about an item will never take the time to actually read the rules/format and follow it. The regulars will catch on, but the newer members typically do not know their way around very well.

Another thing that I have heard and understand is people being frustrated by the scammers that gather information. It makes sense to simply tell someone Yay or Nay to their item in question. No one has to give explicit details. But you can if you want to. If someone questions what it is that you say, you can ignore it. I can see how that would become frustrating, and how it would become frustrating to have trolls involved etc.

And while I know that many things seem very obvious to us (like a $300 Birkin not being authentic) someone may TRULY believe that they are getting a great deal. I found my way into the online world of handbags by doing something similar. Why I thought I could get an authentic bag at half the price, I don't know! Young and naive.

Like Vlad said, we need a new AT thread. Let us get that up today or tomorrow and go from there. Maybe that will help out some. I know so many of the members truly appreciate the work the authenticators do, and I can see how it would be a thankless and frustrating job (much like being a moderator here), but I hope some of the authenticators will feel comfortable to come back and post here if we try to be more mindful of what it is that they do.

 

[gga]

So, I know some of the reasons why the authenticators don't want to share their knowledge on how to authenticate H items on eBay... but I also think that if there were more sharing of that knowledge, it could help dispel "authenticator burnout" and at least, get out a majority of the glaringly fake items...

There was a thread once on how to authenticate exotic bags - and all the people who wanted to learn how to authenticate exotic bags were privately pm'd a list. Couldn't something similar happen again? I'm sure there are a lot of H subforum regulars who would willingly help authenticate, given the proper tools. Many of us simply have not seen enough authentic H bags to be able to tell, but we would love to help out. I know I benefited tremendously from the authentication tools provided on the other subforums, and gladly helped authenticate as long as I was on those subforums.

Your suggestion has some merit, but the problem with a rule book approach is that ultimately authentication comes down to a judgment call based on extensive experience seeing and handling the objects. In the end you can't give someone a set of rules to go by and tell them to get to it, authenticate. This approach would rule out only the most egregious fakes.

I was a museum curator in another career, and I still get paid lots of money to look at things and tell people to buy or not to buy. I happily give my clients a few details that inform my decision, but often they can't see the details that are so glaringly wrong to me. In the end, my judgment of fake or authentic in my professional or collecting arenas comes down to an internal visual library of seeing and handling thousands of similar items. This hard-earned experience can't be duplicated with a rule book, and often can't be explained.

The free and volunteer authentication service that has been offered here on tPF could cost anywhere from $150 per hour to a flat fee of 1-2K if one hired an outside expert, depending on the bag. My fees are exorbitant, and I've been startled at how expensive it can be to hire someone to authenticate the more expensive Hermes bags. The AT thread and the volunteer authenticators should def. be recognized for the gifts they so openly gave the subforum members and complete strangers.

 

[Kallie Girl]

Megs, one thing that could possibly help and this may not be possible with the forum's software but I know it would help me as a reader and perhaps the authenticators, too .... If all of the posts on a topic were carried over in replies.

So, for example, someone asks about an item using the format, then one authenticator replies and then another authenticator replies. It would keep us from going all over the place looking for the first reply if all the posts to that one inquiry were all together. Granted this could end up resulting in a long post but it would give us a trail all in one place.

 

[lilpicotin]

Your suggestion has some merit, but the problem with a rule book approach is that ultimately authentication comes down to a judgment call based on extensive experience seeing and handling the objects. In the end you can't give someone a set of rules to go by and tell them to get to it, authenticate. This approach would rule out only the most egregious fakes.

I totally agree with this. When I started buying Chloe bags, I "authenticated" by following a few rules provided by the subforum regulars. But as I bought and sold Chloe bags, I started being able to see the leather quality - so that, even if some technical details seemed correct on a bag being sold, I could tell whether it was fake or not - and I started being able to tell even what year the bag had been made. The only way I could do this is by having handled and seen a lot of bags.

BUT - and the reason why I suggested this in the first place - is because I was trying to think of a way to help with the problem of "authenticator burnout." I'm not trying to think of a way to train a new group of authenticators. I just thought that if there were a kind of "rule book," then we as a subforum could get easily dismiss the items that could be deemed fake using those rules, so that the experienced authenticators could handle the more subtle cases.

 

[lilpicotin]

Is there any way that posts on the "authenticate this" thread be restricted to 3 format options?

1st format: request for authentication

2nd format: reply to authentication

3rd format: general comment

So, if a poster wants to post on the AT thread, when they click "reply" they will be given a choice of those 3 options. If they pick either "request for" or "reply to" authentication, they will be directed to a form with the necessary fields (i.e. link to eBay auction/photo website, name or type of bag, name of seller, etc.) This way, even cruising newbies will be forced to provide exactly the type of information they have to provide up front to get their goods authenticated.

The authentication "reply" can just list the same info that the request had, plus a yay/nay and a quick reason (e.g. fake bag/stolen photos/seller with bad rep).

General comments can just be chat or follow-up questions.

(I realize what I just suggested would require a tremendous amount of work on Vlad's part, or on the part of whoever programs this stuff... but I kinda feel like this type of effort would only need to be expended once, and then let the thread run its course)

 

[merika]

BUT - and the reason why I suggested this in the first place - is because I was trying to think of a way to help with the problem of "authenticator burnout." I'm not trying to think of a way to train a new group of authenticators. I just thought that if there were a kind of "rule book," then we as a subforum could get easily dismiss the items that could be deemed fake using those rules, so that the experienced authenticators could handle the more subtle cases.

Reading this thread, you'd think that "authenticator burnout" was caused by newbies not following the listing format correctly, so if that was fixed somehow, authenticator burnout would magically cease and everything would be all hunky dory.

I don't think there was a case of "authenticator burnout" in this particular situation, I just think some people are keeping away because they feel their contribution is not valued, and is taken for granted by members and administrators of the forum.

Various people do come along and take up the authenticators' time in an unnecessary fashion, time they could have used more productively either on the forum or in their personal lives. Just pop along to the AT thread and look at what DQ, Leah and mistikat are doing right now. I'm sure it makes people irritated.

I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done to remedy the scarcity of people who authenticate, and who have experience enough to do so. I most sincerely hope that there won't be people who'd come out of nowhere with no experience whatever and start authenticating - this has happened before, and only the presence of seasoned authenticators kept it under control.

 

[lilpicotin]

Reading this thread, you'd think that "authenticator burnout" was caused by newbies not following the listing format correctly, so if that was fixed somehow, authenticator burnout would magically cease and everything would be all hunky dory.

I'm not saying this is the *only* reason, but it's *one* of the reasons that has been cited, by at least one of the more experienced authenticators that we miss - and I'm just trying to find/think up ways to help.

 

[merika]

And in addition to my previous comments, I don't see the reason for a new AT thread right now, honestly. A new AT thread could be established when there are experienced authenticators posting on the thread if not 24/7 at least a majority of the time. Otherwise starting a new thread right now just feels like sweeping the problems under the carpet.

If there were a new thread, possibly new and unknown people would start authenticating and the old thread would drop out of sight. Of course there would be the caveat of 'this is someone's opinion only', but is it worth the risk of that happening? Long-term members would know who to approach personally if they need help; new members would not.

 

[doloresmia]

i hope the authenticators realize how much their time and efforts are valued. i for one go to the authenticate thread every day to look at their opinions about the bags and to increase my knowledge. just want to say thank you a million times over.

if there are things those of us who are mere fans, not authentication goddesses can do to encourage their return and make their lives easier like asking a new member to use the format; referring someone to a previous post; or politely ask someone to desist when they seem insistent on buying a bag several authenticators have questioned, i will do that happily. there is so much traffic on the H authentication thread, it gets overwhelming.

here is hoping we go back business as usual soon.

 

[dressage queen]

as you might imagine, i have many thoughts on this issue - and i'm still trying to put them together in a coherent manner.

but one thing that i suggest, vigorously even, is a sticky along the lines of "read this before you post in the authenticate thread." therein would be the format we like to use and some general guidelines as to how best to make use of the thread, and disclaimers as to all advice being opinions only. it could include some very basic advice, such as $500 BIN birkins not being authentic, and a request to search the seller and the item number before posting to avoid duplicate requests. i'm rambling, but you get the idea.

 

[Perigord]

Reading this thread, you'd think that "authenticator burnout" was caused by newbies not following the listing format correctly, so if that was fixed somehow, authenticator burnout would magically cease and everything would be all hunky dory.

I don't think there was a case of "authenticator burnout" in this particular situation, I just think some people are keeping away because they feel their contribution is not valued, and is taken for granted by members and administrators of the forum.

Various people do come along and take up the authenticators' time in an unnecessary fashion, time they could have used more productively either on the forum or in their personal lives. Just pop along to the AT thread and look at what DQ, Leah and mistikat are doing right now. I'm sure it makes people irritated.

I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done to remedy the scarcity of people who authenticate, and who have experience enough to do so. I most sincerely hope that there won't be people who'd come out of nowhere with no experience whatever and start authenticating - this has happened before, and only the presence of seasoned authenticators kept it under control.

This is a wonderful post.

I will add more when I have a few minutes to reflect, but from the thoughts here about the sources of the problem (not newbie irritation!) to the feelings that the current thread works great as it is (from time to time there is a little drama but we are a smart and great self-regulating group in this thread--authenticators and posters alike) this is spot on. Thank you so much for this smart post.

 

[livethelake]

Something that has bothered me for a very long time is the notion that we must keep the details of authentic bags etc out of threads and away from "the counterfeiters".

I think Jag said it best in one of her posts in the AT thread.

The hard truth is- your pictures will not make a bit of difference in furthering or deterring the fakers. The reality is, if they want to produce fakes, they will likely go and buy the item they are going to reproduce, study it, and make the item as they see fit.

The fakes existed long before The Purse Forum and unfortunately, will continue whether we post details of authentic bags or not.

With regard to the "burn out question" , IMO, there is no excuse for rudeness...whether burned out or not.

JMHO