Diamonds that Often Get Overlooked.

[pdonnadurk]

We also purchased a pre-owned diamond. I believe we got a better deal then we would have gotten elsewear. I did have the shank changed on the original and have since upgraded but that ring was a far better stone then any we could have afforded. It was a 1.52 oval with side baguettes. The oval shape was "squatty" so it was unusual looking. The best part is we took we the ring from my first marriage and used it as a trade in!

We used a jeweler who took pieces on consignement. My current jeweler does the same.

 

[Littlesharon]

I always try to persuade people on a tight budget to go for pre-owned as it can give you access to some truly beautiful stones without the the massive mark-up of new ones,which can be very dis-heartening when you are tight for funds and have a yearning for big-ish stone.I just wish there was a little less stigma attached to pre-owned.But if you look at historical gems such as the Hope Blue and all the notable diamonds in the Crown jewels such as the Cullinans originating from the largest peice of flawless diamond ever found at a colossal 3,106 carats from which the massive Cullinan 1 at 530 carats comes from!!!!,the Koh I Noor and the Fabulous Tiffany Yellow coming in at a whopping 128 carats and desribed as 'a caulron of summer sunshine and fire, these stones have all passed through different ownership and highly coveted non the less with no stigma at all!!! It seems such a shame the smaller cousins can't enjoy that freedom of ownership without causing girls these days to feel that they are somehow getting an inferior deal by going the pre-owned route.No shame in owning a diamond no matter where it comes from I say, and if your savvy enough to save yourself a small fortune by bagging a pre-owned bargain,more power to you I say!XXX

Chaz, I would like you and everyone reading this to know that many diamonds that we think of as being `new`in shops and on line are in fact pre owned, or second hand. Sellers do not consider a tradein or upgraded diamond to be second hand. Sellers see all diamond stock as new as long as it is in new condition. So, as far as second hand market diamonds having a stigma, it is a false stigma because it is not based on reality.

Every time somebody trades in a diamond or upgrades, the old diamond is examined and fixed up if necessary (eg recut, repolished or neither and sent for new certificate) and put back into stock.

The idea of second hand diamonds having a lower value is a myth. However, the market makes it difficult to sell a diamond by an individual which perpetuates the myth that the diamond is worth less for being used!!!!

 

[MomofQtees]

Chaz, I would like you and everyone reading this to know that many diamonds that we think of as being `new`in shops and on line are in fact pre owned, or second hand. Sellers do not consider a tradein or upgraded diamond to be second hand. Sellers see all diamond stock as new as long as it is in new condition. So, as far as second hand market diamonds having a stigma, it is a false stigma because it is not based on reality.

Every time somebody trades in a diamond or upgrades, the old diamond is examined and fixed up if necessary (eg recut, repolished or neither and sent for new certificate) and put back into stock.

The idea of second hand diamonds having a lower value is a myth. However, the market makes it difficult to sell a diamond by an individual which perpetuates the myth that the diamond is worth less for being used!!!!

Hi Littlesharon!!! Havent seen you here for sometime! You and Chaz make such a great team as I always admire the wisdom that both of you share in this forum!

 

[Littlesharon]

Hi Littlesharon!!! Havent seen you here for sometime! You and Chaz make such a great team as I always admire the wisdom that both of you share in this forum!

Ohh, thank you. I love reading what you write too as you seem to have good background knowledge between you and your Mum!!!! Especially re. watches!!!!

I have been on a few diamond boards due to a new project, but always call this place home.

 

[chaz]

You are absolutely right,unfortunately there are unsrupulous traders that do in fact take in diamonds on part ex, don't even go as far as re-polishing them,'just 'stick 'em in a new mount and jo bloggs will be none the wiser'.I left this mans employ within the week. As a former boss of mine told me its not acceptable to do this,and if you get found out by other people in the trade as following this practice it can irreparably damage your reputation as a retailer and it makes other people wary of dealing with you if you are seen to be doing un-ethical trading practices.When I asked him why ( being new to the trade at this point and not having much of a clue!) he then replied 'there is no way you would expect to pay full retail price for a secondhand car is there?' 'No' I replied 'of course not but you would be able to tell it had been used', 'that' he said 'is where a good code of ethics is vital in the jewellery trade because thats what separates me and some others from the Arthur Daleys,and its thier actions that create such distrust and unecessary mystery in the trade,it is quite an illegal practice,some do it,but its usually people who don't care about building and trading on a good reputation'
And it is with dismay I have to agree with you that a percentage end up back in the new market this way,and some just through moving about can end up find their way there too,albeit it more innocently.And it is impossible to tell wether a diamond is second,third,fourth hand as it does'nt have a registration plate or chassis number to tell people its age and protect people from this dishonorable practice. Its fairly safe to say if you find yourself in a jewellers with a pre-owned section,he is more than likely to run it honorably and the new ones he has,as far as he can be aware are new. It was a subject I had'nt wanted to cover really,as if you are buying a diamond pre-owned its usually a good buy,but I did'nt really want to un-nerve any ladies who want to buy new any cause to panic and become mistrustful of the trade in general from the unsavoury conduct of a few that can spoil the wonderful experience of buying a diamond for so many others. And I think its safe to say people like Cartier,Tiffanys etc who trade on thier reputation would not knowingly participate in this practice.xxxxxxxxx

 

[chaz]

Also I wanted to share with ladies who are in the market for buying a stone that,as I bought mine pre-owned it was several thousand less than a new equivalent,I know its an old cut so therefore has no real comparison to a 'new' stone granted. But a freind of mine sports a fantastic 1.78 carat certificated emerald cut, F color,VVS1 clarity and fabulous proportions and it was bought with the certificate,for £7500.00 its replacement value is somewhere in excess of £21 k, so for ladies who have less of a budget it can be a viable option.I have also may have mis-represented my original idea that pre-owned diamonds are worth less,that I agree is an untrue statement so may apologies to anyone else who may have come to that point also. Its merely that diamonds,when sold and represented properly as pre-owned are not allowed by law to have VAT put on them again as its already been paid by someone else previously. Anyone knowingly selling a pre-owned diamond and passing it of as new and charging full current retail for its size and quality is breaking the law. Hope this clarifies any oversights on my part?xxxxxxxx

 

[MomofQtees]

Also I wanted to share with ladies who are in the market for buying a stone that,as I bought mine pre-owned it was several thousand less than a new equivalent,I know its an old cut so therefore has no real comparison to a 'new' stone granted. But a freind of mine sports a fantastic 1.78 carat certificated emerald cut, F color,VVS1 clarity and fabulous proportions and it was bought with the certificate,for £7500.00 its replacement value is somewhere in excess of £21 k, so for ladies who have less of a budget it can be a viable option.I have also may have mis-represented my original idea that pre-owned diamonds are worth less,that I agree is an untrue statement so may apologies to anyone else who may have come to that point also. Its merely that diamonds,when sold and represented properly as pre-owned are not allowed by law to have VAT put on them again as its already been paid by someone else previously. Anyone knowingly selling a pre-owned diamond and passing it of as new and charging full current retail for its size and quality is breaking the law. Hope this clarifies any oversights on my part?xxxxxxxx

This is such an informative thread!!! Thanks a million Chaz!!!

 

[chaz]

This is such an informative thread!!! Thanks a million Chaz!!!

You,as always,are such a sweetie!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will be posting back on here hopefully tommorow when I get the response from Trading Standards about the exact standpoint in the law of pre-owned diamonds being passed off as new.I spoke to a former employer and he said anyone caught knowingly doing it can immediately have thier trading license re-voked and shut down.He says it is a deplorable practice and its why when someone sells second hand jewllery,the retailer has a legal obligation to take their address and details for records(in case the item proves to be stolen,the Police will want this info too)
And to prove how this item came into the shop its cost etc has to go through the books in an absolutely above the board way.This all serves to protect the customer wether they are buying new or pre-owned,and the Inland Revenue and Tax Office will also want answers if your books don't tally up too!!!

 

[Helpmeplease]

I am pretty sure, even though it is probably done, passing off second hand diamonds, without making the seller aware is in fact illegal, I am pretty sure of this as my mother owns a boutique, and we're not allowed to re-sell items that have been worn (hence people not returning/exchanging used clothing ) and if found out, your trading license would most likely be revoked, or you would have to pay a hefty fine So to conclude, all i'm saying is that I doubt "most" diamonds are second hand

 

[Littlesharon]

Guys, I am no expert what so ever, but I specifically asked this question about second hand diamonds on Pricescope, where everyone is beyond passionate about diamonds. All the experts who are quite big in the industry said it is common practice as there is no such thing as a used diamond so to speak. Unless I was misinterpreting them, I took it that everyone does it without considering it wrong. Now, I am talking diamond only, not setting. The shop must still invest time and maybe recutting/ polishing and recertifying expences towards this `new` stock. Once everything is looking good, the diamond is not considered second hand or of lower value.

The only way to avoid buying a used diamond is to buy oe with a tracable line from cutter to shop. Also the super new cuts are more guaranteed to be truely new. Otherwise it is more likely than not that any of us could be wearing someones old trade in. To be honest it doesnt take away from the diamond at all.

The interesting point is that the idea of second hand diamonds being worth less is what is false. It is not true that second hand diamonds are worth less. It is just more difficult for individuals to sell their old diamonds. This gives the impression that they are worth less.

Didnt mean to hyjack the thread. More wanted to add to the posters claim that it is a great idea if you can buy these diamonds cheaper as they are the same stock as the shops are selling as new.

 

[chaz]

I have done more research into this,if you are UK based and know for certain that this practise is going on,there is a guy in trading standards that would be keen to talk to you about it. Here in the UK trading standards are very clear on this,selling pre-owned diamonds as new ones with full knowledge of it is mis-representation and illegal by taking advantage of and abusing the publics trust in thier lack of ability to check it out for themselves. The gentleman I spoke to was a little suprised to hear of this practice being commonplace as he has worked a very long time in Trading Standards and has specialised in hallmarking and jewellery,about 25 years to be exact.He said his contacts are all above board and trade with professionalism and legally,so it was either not commonplace at all,or carried out by unscrupulous law breaking individuals and it is up to any person knowing of this activity to take a moral stance and inform the relative authorities of their unlawful and deceitful,conduct he pointed out that the jewellery trade is already too 'closed' and baffling to the public without this adding to their wariness and damaging the trade as a whole even further to allow this sort of deplorable conduct to be allowed to flourish.


I am actually very glad you have brought this forward,in doing so this discussion is teaching the public about their rights and the law most effectively indeed and what is acceptable and what is not.It is something that should be brought into the public domain,as education and awareness are powerful tools to posess.


I have also been in touch with a freind within the DTC,Diamond Trading Council,formerly DeBeers,for their take on this,they are sending me a private E-mail on it outlining exactly their stance on it,and from the discussion I had over the phone they said it was a detestable practice that spoils the the shopping pleasure of purchasing a new diamond,is extremely predatory in the fact it is abusing trust and willfully breaking the law.They also went on to add at my question at re-polishing of a stone that is pre-owned and then marketed as new is not good practice,it has to be sold with information disclosing this fact,in exactly the same way a treated diamond that has been lazer treated,frature filled or under gone some coloring process that is not natural has to be disclosed,so the public are not mis-led at any stage.


To add to this further and give a fuller picture of UK trading,I spoke to three diamond merchants I have worked very closely with throughout my years in the trade,which totals to about 15 now,their response was decsive too.If they had any sniff they were dealing with someone who traded in this manner they would cease trading with them immediately and permanently.They would not want the association of dealing with 'dirty' traders,as they would not want their reputation to be damaged by it.They work too hard and long to build a reputation of trust and good practice to have it sullied by someone with less than honest trading practices.

Of course this may be totally different in the US,but after training and gaining my FGA and DGA qualifictions that are of a worldwide standard I would have thought that the worldwide standard of trading was much the same too. And as my diamond grading qualification allows me to grade from New York to Hong Kong and everywhere in between and that I follow the same grading rules,I can work as a grader in any chosen country that recognises the qualification.I really hope I'm wrong in thinking the US may be different because if it is,my moral stance would make it extremely difficult to do so and be comfortable with these different practices.And that would be a shame.

 

[chaz]

To add another angle to this after re-reading your first post,I found when I was selling loose diamonds or ready made rings to couples getting engaged,that inevitably they would ask about my diamond and why I chose it etc.When I told them I loved it because its an old-cut and I fell in love with its beauty as for an old cut it does have incredible fire and life,and it has uncharateristically good reflection from the back facets I found it a truly enchanting stone and totally lost my heart to it the very second I laid eyes on it!
This always led to the same question, 'so if your saying old cut,that means its very old right?how exactly old is it?' Yes its old,I would reply but I could'nt say for definate exactly how old,but it is a pre-owned diamond,the girls knee jerk reaction was always so typical it always amused me a little! 'Oh God I would'nt want a secondhand diamond or enagagement ring that someone else has had before me!!!!!!' then after this involuntary outburst they would look mortified and go on to apologise profusely,and in the steady stream of apologies I had to find an opening to say its quite all right,don't worry,its not everyones idea,thats why the trade in new sales is as strong as it is,and there is absolutely nothing to criticise by wanting to own a new diamond and enjoy the totally lux pleasure and experience that it brings in picking and owning a brand new diamond.


So in my experience in selling possibly several hundred engagement rings,very likely more but I am erring to the side of a conservative estimation, is that there is an unfortunate stigma attached to pre-owned diamonds as engagement rings.And despite a couple being strapped for cash,they would always pass over a bigger pre-owned stone for a smaller new one,even though the young lady in front of me really wanted a bigger stone but was disheartened to learn the size she wanted was out of their financial reach at new prices,despite me trying to cut them as keen a deal as I could economically viable as I could for both of us.Even then a new diamond was more preferable to her,even when I offered interest free credit on a bigger new stone, they felt this would reduce their lovely new purchase to just a financial transaction,which I could see to be honest,it would kind of bypass all the romance for them,and I respected that.After all sitting and filling in a form that asks you all kind of personal details down to the measurement of a rats ass in front of a relative stranger,does take the shine off a romantic moment.

So,very much unfortunately for whatever reason the stigma does exist,maybe as Trading Standards over here demands that we disclose these details may perpetuate this somewhat.I know in my time in the jewellery trade and working for extremely high end jewellers to high street chains that customers always chose new over second hand,pretty much whatever thier financial circumstance. So by highlighting the point of pre-owned diamonds being a good buy is not going to damage sale of new stones any time soon. Merely pointing out their existance maybe the answer to some young ladies dream of owning a stone they could'nt otherwise afford,even some of the .20 point diamonds,less than a quarter carat have made some couples I have served wince at the price even when it is a well priced quality little stone in 18 ct gold at less than £350 UK sterling.


I can count on one hand the amount of pre-owned diamond engagement ringsI have sold that are intended as engagement rings on one hand,and so can my husband who was in the trade too,he was in the trade a total of ten years and he sold two.
As for me I sold the grand total of four.

And without revealing too much that again would be very disconcerting and annoying to the retail public I have first hand knowledge of how much new diamonds can be marked up by,and how it can differ from a prestige store to a high street chain,for the same quality.

There I think is the real deception to the buying public, how one place can charge more for the same quality stone than another simply by the name over the door.

But, I have encountered a lot of very savvy ladies who are well aware of this but shop there by choice and the retail experience they get,cost regardless.
And it is this freedom of choice that keeps all aspects of the trade thriving. As one of my contacts very succintly put it,'all diamond sales are valuable at keeping diamond at the top of the gem tree,they keep its desirability to a maximum as one of the most coveted,admired and desirable stones and every lady who wears one whatever its size and provenance keeps advertising this fact,and in return they get a truly beautiful peice of nature that can be enjoyed for generations'.

 

[chaz]

Guys, I am no expert what so ever, but I specifically asked this question about second hand diamonds on Pricescope, where everyone is beyond passionate about diamonds. All the experts who are quite big in the industry said it is common practice as there is no such thing as a used diamond so to speak. Unless I was misinterpreting them, I took it that everyone does it without considering it wrong. Now, I am talking diamond only, not setting. The shop must still invest time and maybe recutting/ polishing and recertifying expences towards this `new` stock. Once everything is looking good, the diamond is not considered second hand or of lower value.

The only way to avoid buying a used diamond is to buy oe with a tracable line from cutter to shop. Also the super new cuts are more guaranteed to be truely new. Otherwise it is more likely than not that any of us could be wearing someones old trade in. To be honest it doesnt take away from the diamond at all.

The interesting point is that the idea of second hand diamonds being worth less is what is false. It is not true that second hand diamonds are worth less. It is just more difficult for individuals to sell their old diamonds. This gives the impression that they are worth less.

Didnt mean to hyjack the thread. More wanted to add to the posters claim that it is a great idea if you can buy these diamonds cheaper as they are the same stock as the shops are selling as new.

My diamond had work and time invested in it to be re-set into platinum,but it was still sold as a pre-owned diamond.If I had bought it as a new diamond in a new setting and discovered at a later date the only thing that was new about it was in fact the setting, I would feel incredibly cheated and mis-led at someone daring to making a monkey out of me,after that I would be so far beyond being pissed off I can't put that emotion into words.I don't think I'm alone in this. xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[MomofQtees]

Chaz, is there really a distinct difference between an old cut and a new one? Im not a pro at trying to distinguish either. Why do people cringe at the thought of buying pre-owned? All diamonds look good to me LOL. As long as its firey and passes the standard that I want, I'ld grab it if I could afford it. Its the setting that matters too doesnt it?

 

[chaz]

Chaz, is there really a distinct difference between an old cut and a new one? Im not a pro at trying to distinguish either. Why do people cringe at the thought of buying pre-owned? All diamonds look good to me LOL. As long as its firey and passes the standard that I want, I'ld grab it if I could afford it. Its the setting that matters too doesnt it?

hey sweetie!there is difference between old and new cuts,have a look on Has Anyone Seen This Ring Thread,I a put post on there I think you'd enjoy.And lots of girls want new rings,which is fine,as they want thier diamond to be 'new and fresh' for the new stage in their relationship,which is a lovely sentiment,something of a lovely story about how they went to get it etc,when they eventually pass them down!!!