Coach Rehab and Rescue Club

[mellopan]

Hi all, I have been going through the wealth of information in this forum and have been doing some of my own research on leather care and rehab. I'd like to share my findings and get your opinions based on your experience with rehabbing

What I've learned so far is that tanned leather is animal skin that has had the majority of its moisture removed, leaving mostly protein. During processing, the natural arrangement of protein fibers are expanded and tannins are allowed to penetrate into the network and complex with these proteins.

When alive, skin is kept supple presumably by water. However, when dead, moisture will cause skin to rot but lack of moisture will cause it to become hard and brittle due to those protein fibers contracting and tightly bundling against each other. Tanning basically inserts spacers between proteins, where water would have been had it been (alive) skin, and that allows leather to be soft and flexible.

From this, I would guess that the reason vintage leather becomes stiff, and cracks, is due to bonds between the protein and the tannin breaking down over time and tannins leaving the leather. SO, it would make sense that in order to restore softness, you would have to add tannins back into the leather, or something that mimics its behaviour?

I see Leather CPR mentioned a lot. In fact, the general procedure for rehabbing bags (from my understanding) is to soak in a light detergent solution, shape and dry, condition as needed with Leather CPR, and finish off with Blackrock.

So I looked into Leather CPR and it is concerning to me that I could not find anything about its ingredients other than that it contains lanolin. Lanolin's role is to help protect animal skin and wool from environmental damage (including water). While it makes sense that it will protect leather bags from further damage, I don't see how it would condition dry or already damaged leather. But I have no idea what else may or may not be in there since I can't find its ingredients anywhere...

Another popular product seems to be the Lexol leather conditioner which lists its ingredients as "Sulfated Fatty Alcohols, Sulfated Neatsfoot Oil, Tall Fatty Acids, Water, Preservative". To me, this seems like a much better leather CONDITIONER. The definition of a tannin is any large polyphenolic compound containing sufficient hydroxyls and other suitable groups (such as carboxyls) to form strong complexes with proteins and other macromolecules. Out of those ingredients, fatty alcohols and fatty acids are close enough to the definition that I suspect they will act like tannins, and while I don't know what exactly is the chemical composition of neatsfoot oil, I suspect it does as well.

A third conditioner I've come across is the Preservation Solutions restoration leather conditioner, which contains "polymerized oils, polymers, solvents". I'm not sure how this works, but if I had to guess it would be more like a coating that would fill any cracks and coat the entire surface to make it appear soft.

And then Blackrock, which is made of carnauba wax, I'm quite certain would work like a sealant by forming a hard waxy surface that would protect from further damage.

So in practice, leather CPR appears to generally perform well but for those of you who have used more than one, can you make any correlations as to how they function and maybe situations that require one vs the other?

Lastly, I looked into the ingredients for saddle soap (Kiwi brand) - glycerine, lanolin and wax. As well as a "fine soap". This just confuses me because it's combining cleaning, conditioning and sealing all in one and that just doesn't seem effective at all. This is actually the only thing I have right now and I'm starting to regret buying this.

PS: http://wwwchem.uwimona.edu.jm/courses/CHEM2402/Textiles/Leather.html is a great resource if anyone would like to read more about tanning/processing of leather.

 

[mellopan]

Hi All

Just catching up a bit, and felt I should mention this in case no one else has -

RE Acetone : for those who may not know it is very carcinogenic, so handle with care. Wash your hands right away after use! (In the US, you'll only find warning labels on acetone that's NOT for cosmetic use; same stuff but the FDA isn't required to have warning labels on cosmetics.)

I'm a graphic designer and used it for many years - it is useful but scary stuff.

I don't think acetone has been classified as carcinogenic. I just looked up its MSDS and no mention of carcinogenicity anywhere. From my understanding it's only dangerous if you ingest or inhale a lot of it. Acetone is quite volatile so it would evaporate before it can penetrate through the skin. But handwashing is definitely a good practice.

 

[Farmer Cyndy]

Thanks, mellopan for the info on leather conditioners. I haven't included the long quote but it is 2 posts up. I too have used just about every leather conditioner, cleaner, sealer, out there as I have plenty of years cleaning all my horse tach ( which really gets dirty from sweat and dirt and cost more then any of my purses.) Lexol has been the choice for years for cleaning ( and cost wise for large areas) and Kiwi saddle soap. I use Blackrocks on my finer leather bags.

 

[whateve]

Hi all, I have been going through the wealth of information in this forum and have been doing some of my own research on leather care and rehab. I'd like to share my findings and get your opinions based on your experience with rehabbing

What I've learned so far is that tanned leather is animal skin that has had the majority of its moisture removed, leaving mostly protein. During processing, the natural arrangement of protein fibers are expanded and tannins are allowed to penetrate into the network and complex with these proteins.

When alive, skin is kept supple presumably by water. However, when dead, moisture will cause skin to rot but lack of moisture will cause it to become hard and brittle due to those protein fibers contracting and tightly bundling against each other. Tanning basically inserts spacers between proteins, where water would have been had it been (alive) skin, and that allows leather to be soft and flexible.

From this, I would guess that the reason vintage leather becomes stiff, and cracks, is due to bonds between the protein and the tannin breaking down over time and tannins leaving the leather. SO, it would make sense that in order to restore softness, you would have to add tannins back into the leather, or something that mimics its behaviour?

I see Leather CPR mentioned a lot. In fact, the general procedure for rehabbing bags (from my understanding) is to soak in a light detergent solution, shape and dry, condition as needed with Leather CPR, and finish off with Blackrock.

So I looked into Leather CPR and it is concerning to me that I could not find anything about its ingredients other than that it contains lanolin. Lanolin's role is to help protect animal skin and wool from environmental damage (including water). While it makes sense that it will protect leather bags from further damage, I don't see how it would condition dry or already damaged leather. But I have no idea what else may or may not be in there since I can't find its ingredients anywhere...

Another popular product seems to be the Lexol leather conditioner which lists its ingredients as "Sulfated Fatty Alcohols, Sulfated Neatsfoot Oil, Tall Fatty Acids, Water, Preservative". To me, this seems like a much better leather CONDITIONER. The definition of a tannin is any large polyphenolic compound containing sufficient hydroxyls and other suitable groups (such as carboxyls) to form strong complexes with proteins and other macromolecules. Out of those ingredients, fatty alcohols and fatty acids are close enough to the definition that I suspect they will act like tannins, and while I don't know what exactly is the chemical composition of neatsfoot oil, I suspect it does as well.

A third conditioner I've come across is the Preservation Solutions restoration leather conditioner, which contains "polymerized oils, polymers, solvents". I'm not sure how this works, but if I had to guess it would be more like a coating that would fill any cracks and coat the entire surface to make it appear soft.

And then Blackrock, which is made of carnauba wax, I'm quite certain would work like a sealant by forming a hard waxy surface that would protect from further damage.

So in practice, leather CPR appears to generally perform well but for those of you who have used more than one, can you make any correlations as to how they function and maybe situations that require one vs the other?

Lastly, I looked into the ingredients for saddle soap (Kiwi brand) - glycerine, lanolin and wax. As well as a "fine soap". This just confuses me because it's combining cleaning, conditioning and sealing all in one and that just doesn't seem effective at all. This is actually the only thing I have right now and I'm starting to regret buying this.

PS: http://wwwchem.uwimona.edu.jm/courses/CHEM2402/Textiles/Leather.html is a great resource if anyone would like to read more about tanning/processing of leather.

Very interesting read. Thanks for doing the research.

I've never used saddle soap. I've heard that it dries out leather. I found these articles with a cursory google search: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/2014...dle-soap-and-its-dangers-for-leather-cleaning
http://www.autogeek.net/nosasopl.html

Vintage Coach leathers are aniline leather, which means the dyes are soaked into the leather, with no topcoat. When Coach sold these bags back in the 70s and 80s, they came with instructions to wash with plain soap and water. They recommended soaps like Ivory or pure castile soap. Then rinse thoroughly, stuff and dry. They didn't recommend the use of conditioners at all: "After it has dried, the leather may appear to be a little stiff but as COACH Leather is rich in natural emollients, it will soon regain its characteristic suppleness."

When we rehab bags, most of them may have been neglected, but it is rare to find one that has gotten so dry that the leather has cracked. I got one like that. It felt and looked like wood. Conditioners had no effect on it, probably because just as you said, the spacers between the proteins were gone. I've never found anything that works on leather that has already gotten stiff and brittle.

However, in 95% or more of rehabs the leather is still in good enough shape that it responds to conditioners. In my experience, Lexol is thin and doesn't make much of a difference when I apply it. I only use it to mix with color when I need to touch up corners. It is disappointing to learn that it contains neatsfoot oil since that is a permanent darkener.

When I've used CPR, it soaks in and the leather actually looks plumper. I think the bath might open up the pores and allow conditioners to sink in better than they would otherwise. I'd be interested to know where you found the ingredients for CPR because they wouldn't tell me when I tried to find out if it contained anything I can't have touching my skin. If you know the other ingredients, please let me know.

We've found the conditioners that work for us on Coach leather through trial and error, and have gotten great results. You might be able to get great results using other products. What works on Coach aniline leather may not work on other types of leather. Most of us have not gotten great results rehabbing the leather of other brands. I know I haven't.

 

[Farmer Cyndy]

Very interesting read. Thanks for doing the research.

I've never used saddle soap. I've heard that it dries out leather. I found these articles with a cursory google search: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/2014...dle-soap-and-its-dangers-for-leather-cleaning
http://www.autogeek.net/nosasopl.html

Vintage Coach leathers are aniline leather, which means the dyes are soaked into the leather, with no topcoat. When Coach sold these bags back in the 70s and 80s, they came with instructions to wash with plain soap and water. They recommended soaps like Ivory or pure castile soap. Then rinse thoroughly, stuff and dry. They didn't recommend the use of conditioners at all: "After it has dried, the leather may appear to be a little stiff but as COACH Leather is rich in natural emollients, it will soon regain its characteristic suppleness."

When we rehab bags, most of them may have been neglected, but it is rare to find one that has gotten so dry that the leather has cracked. I got one like that. It felt and looked like wood. Conditioners had no effect on it, probably because just as you said, the spacers between the proteins were gone. I've never found anything that works on leather that has already gotten stiff and brittle.

However, in 95% or more of rehabs the leather is still in good enough shape that it responds to conditioners. In my experience, Lexol is thin and doesn't make much of a difference when I apply it. I only use it to mix with color when I need to touch up corners. It is disappointing to learn that it contains neatsfoot oil since that is a permanent darkener.

When I've used CPR, it soaks in and the leather actually looks plumper. I think the bath might open up the pores and allow conditioners to sink in better than they would otherwise. I'd be interested to know where you found the ingredients for CPR because they wouldn't tell me when I tried to find out if it contained anything I can't have touching my skin. If you know the other ingredients, please let me know.

We've found the conditioners that work for us on Coach leather through trial and error, and have gotten great results. You might be able to get great results using other products. What works on Coach aniline leather may not work on other types of leather. Most of us have not gotten great results rehabbing the leather of other brands. I know I haven't.

Thank you. I did read that "saddle leather" is a whole different leather, thus the success with my saddles and bridles. They also much dirtier with sweat needing heavier cleaner before the salt eats the leather. Whatever says coach is different then maybe even other designer purses ( at least the older ones) and I have found that true for a few other brands I have tried to rehab. In fact nothing compares to those beautiful old Coachs. As a leather lover, they are dream.
We are always learning on this forum thanks to sharing of those who have "been there, done that." Thank you again!

 

[AggieK]

Very interesting read. Thanks for doing the research.

I've never used saddle soap. I've heard that it dries out leather. I found these articles with a cursory google search: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/2014...dle-soap-and-its-dangers-for-leather-cleaning
http://www.autogeek.net/nosasopl.html

Vintage Coach leathers are aniline leather, which means the dyes are soaked into the leather, with no topcoat. When Coach sold these bags back in the 70s and 80s, they came with instructions to wash with plain soap and water. They recommended soaps like Ivory or pure castile soap. Then rinse thoroughly, stuff and dry. They didn't recommend the use of conditioners at all: "After it has dried, the leather may appear to be a little stiff but as COACH Leather is rich in natural emollients, it will soon regain its characteristic suppleness."

When we rehab bags, most of them may have been neglected, but it is rare to find one that has gotten so dry that the leather has cracked. I got one like that. It felt and looked like wood. Conditioners had no effect on it, probably because just as you said, the spacers between the proteins were gone. I've never found anything that works on leather that has already gotten stiff and brittle.

However, in 95% or more of rehabs the leather is still in good enough shape that it responds to conditioners. In my experience, Lexol is thin and doesn't make much of a difference when I apply it. I only use it to mix with color when I need to touch up corners. It is disappointing to learn that it contains neatsfoot oil since that is a permanent darkener.

When I've used CPR, it soaks in and the leather actually looks plumper. I think the bath might open up the pores and allow conditioners to sink in better than they would otherwise. I'd be interested to know where you found the ingredients for CPR because they wouldn't tell me when I tried to find out if it contained anything I can't have touching my skin. If you know the other ingredients, please let me know.

We've found the conditioners that work for us on Coach leather through trial and error, and have gotten great results. You might be able to get great results using other products. What works on Coach aniline leather may not work on other types of leather. Most of us have not gotten great results rehabbing the leather of other brands. I know I haven't.

One time I passed on a Coach bag at Savers. It was an old hippie flap. I wanted that style but it was all cracked. I'd never seen anything like that before, and didn't think it could be salvaged. But I live in a desert and need lotion and lip balm every day, so it stands to reason that a leather bag would need conditioner too.

 

[mellopan]

Very interesting read. Thanks for doing the research.

I've never used saddle soap. I've heard that it dries out leather. I found these articles with a cursory google search: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/2014...dle-soap-and-its-dangers-for-leather-cleaning
http://www.autogeek.net/nosasopl.html

Vintage Coach leathers are aniline leather, which means the dyes are soaked into the leather, with no topcoat. When Coach sold these bags back in the 70s and 80s, they came with instructions to wash with plain soap and water. They recommended soaps like Ivory or pure castile soap. Then rinse thoroughly, stuff and dry. They didn't recommend the use of conditioners at all: "After it has dried, the leather may appear to be a little stiff but as COACH Leather is rich in natural emollients, it will soon regain its characteristic suppleness."

Great articles! Thanks for those. It makes sense not to use high pH on leathers which are naturally acidic. However, aren't soaps high pH as well? In fact, castile soaps are made with sodium hydroxide which is highly alkaline. I think the difference is probably due to soaps actually being washed/rinsed so none are left on the leather, but with saddle soaps we are instructed to leave it on (just wipe dry).

I do have Ivory dish wahsing liquid, do you think this would work well?

However, in 95% or more of rehabs the leather is still in good enough shape that it responds to conditioners. In my experience, Lexol is thin and doesn't make much of a difference when I apply it. I only use it to mix with color when I need to touch up corners. It is disappointing to learn that it contains neatsfoot oil since that is a permanent darkener.

I'm not sure but maybe sulfated neatsfoot oil is different than regular neatsfoot oil? I haven't been able to find the difference though.

When I've used CPR, it soaks in and the leather actually looks plumper. I think the bath might open up the pores and allow conditioners to sink in better than they would otherwise. I'd be interested to know where you found the ingredients for CPR because they wouldn't tell me when I tried to find out if it contained anything I can't have touching my skin. If you know the other ingredients, please let me know.

We've found the conditioners that work for us on Coach leather through trial and error, and have gotten great results. You might be able to get great results using other products. What works on Coach aniline leather may not work on other types of leather. Most of us have not gotten great results rehabbing the leather of other brands. I know I haven't.

I couldn't find the ingredient list for leather CPR either. I only found lanolin being mentioned in their product description on amazon. That also irked me a little because why would you not disclose ingredients if your product works? Obviously they wouldn't disclose ingredients that are trade secrets but at least a general mention of what type of things are in there...

Have you noticed any bags with deterioration in leather quality after being treated with leather CPR (not right after but after a long time being used/stored or after repeated application)?

 

[mellopan]

Thank you. I did read that "saddle leather" is a whole different leather, thus the success with my saddles and bridles. They also much dirtier with sweat needing heavier cleaner before the salt eats the leather. Whatever says coach is different then maybe even other designer purses ( at least the older ones) and I have found that true for a few other brands I have tried to rehab. In fact nothing compares to those beautiful old Coachs. As a leather lover, they are dream.
We are always learning on this forum thanks to sharing of those who have "been there, done that." Thank you again!

I read that coach leathers are tanned with chromium salts which result in softer leather, while saddles are tanned with vegetable tannins which result in tougher leather.

I will be receiving a vintage Coach in the mail soon and I'm so excited to rehab it I'm just still getting over the fact that vintage coach bags are regularly getting bathed haha.

 

[whateve]

Great articles! Thanks for those. It makes sense not to use high pH on leathers which are naturally acidic. However, aren't soaps high pH as well? In fact, castile soaps are made with sodium hydroxide which is highly alkaline. I think the difference is probably due to soaps actually being washed/rinsed so none are left on the leather, but with saddle soaps we are instructed to leave it on (just wipe dry).

I do have Ivory dish wahsing liquid, do you think this would work well?


I'm not sure but maybe sulfated neatsfoot oil is different than regular neatsfoot oil? I haven't been able to find the difference though.


I couldn't find the ingredient list for leather CPR either. I only found lanolin being mentioned in their product description on amazon. That also irked me a little because why would you not disclose ingredients if your product works? Obviously they wouldn't disclose ingredients that are trade secrets but at least a general mention of what type of things are in there...

Have you noticed any bags with deterioration in leather quality after being treated with leather CPR (not right after but after a long time being used/stored or after repeated application)?

Ivory should work fine. Yes, I believe soap is too alkaline. There was a discussion about this awhile back when someone liked using Murphy's oil soap. I think that as long as you rinse very well, there shouldn't be a problem. If the leather is vachetta, I'll use vinegar, which has a low PH.

I sent an email to Leather CPR and the response was that they wouldn't even confirm or deny if any of the ingredients came from plants. They were worried about competitors. I wonder if it is something really simple that we could buy cheaper elsewhere if we knew. Like some of those leather odor removal products are mostly alcohol, but they add other ingredients so you think there is some other magical ingredient.

I've never seen a deterioration from using Leather CPR. I think it would be hard to detect. I haven't been rehabbing long enough to have any problems show up. They don't get in bad enough shape to need much conditioning again. The only thing I'll use on them for maintenance is Blackrocks because, as a scratch cover, it wears off in a month or two.

 

[Taxitina1530]

Is there any way to restore the shine to a silver Poppy story patch on the front of this zippy? Kinda hard to see but the patch itself has rub marks and hoping to restore it?

 

[whateve]

Is there any way to restore the shine to a silver Poppy story patch on the front of this zippy? Kinda hard to see but the patch itself has rub marks and hoping to restore it?

If the color needs restoring, I'd try Elmer's Paint pen in silver metallic. It's probably not an exact match, but if you do the whole patch it won't matter. I used one for the straps of a Glam and it worked perfectly. If it just needs shine, I'd use a gloss acrylic varnish that you can find next to the acrylic paints.

 

[dgphoto]

This has been in my rehab pile, waiting for the mood to strike. How would you attempt to fix this? Acrylic paint?

 

[whateve]

This has been in my rehab pile, waiting for the mood to strike. How would you attempt to fix this? Acrylic paint? View attachment 3097924View attachment 3097926

What happened? You need to fix the texture as well as the color. I'd try fabric puff paint because you'd be able to mimic the bumps of the leather. Alternately, you could use leather cement to get the texture right, and then cover it with color. I don't think acrylic paint works well for covering major spots. The texture and sheen is wrong. It only works well in my opinion if it is diluted with conditioner, and then it wouldn't cover. If I was going to go this route, I'd get Leather Refinisher.

 

[dgphoto]

Hi, whateve! Not sure what happened-this was a thrifted bag. Looks like someone tried to color the center of the booboo with marker. I will see what it looks like after a bath. I found a paint color that is a great match but am worried about the finish. I'm thinking I'll take the "belt"'off (it's stitched to the bag in the back) and maybe switch the front & back, if that makes sense. That way the spot will be on the back so it'll be less noticeable once it's "fixed." I'll post pix when she's all done. [emoji4]

 

[ledobe]

Hi! Just thought I'd share my mini rehab on a 12775 editorial Zoe. The problem is, there's nothing to show! I got a good deal on a badly listed bag, and crossed my fingers that it would be in good shape. Turned out that only real flaw was that kinda grunginess around the zipper and on the handle that happens with light colored bags. I contemplated for a couple days whether or not to wash it-it's nappa leather and with a light color I was afraid it would come out worse, but I finally closed it up in a pillow case, padded the washer with towels, crossed my fingers and put it on the extra gentle cycle. It came out great, nice and clean, no scratches or discoloration and I can't see that it faded, though I think it was a little faded to begin with.

Here's a picture, there is nothing to see. It might be a little wrinkley but its the kind of wrinkles that will come out with use. To be honest, I don't love the color, I think this leather would be so awesome in a deeper color, in fact, one of the reasons I justified attempting to wash it was that if I messed it up I could experiment with dying it guilt free.

Anyway, just posting this for the record, in case someone finds themselves in this situation.