Interesting… the plot thickens. Out of curiosity, what is the production year for the bag? Also, if it isn’t too much of an inconvenience, would you mind posting a picture?
Barenia croc/alligator Birkin
- Thread starter Ms Birkin
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I just double check:
- Receipt date 2013, purchased in USA
- Bag stamp Q, confirmed in ref section and this correspond to year 2013
- receipt says alligator Mississippi barenia colors 34 Fauve
Thank you for the information! In the case of your bag, I believe this is the other option I mentioned in which the stamp is indicative of the era/production year from which the bag originates. This seems to have been the case for several bags from around 2012/2013.
@r luvs h I have read thru your post a few more times and I am totally confused. I’m not reading anything about the era/production in relation to the foil vs blind stamp. I read era/production relating to Fauve vs. natural color. Also, can you clarify about the Fauve barenia being only available in gator? One paragraph you say the Fauve barenia is only available in gator (which is what I was told) and the Fauve (color) is available in croc (also what I was told). However, the next paragraph you say there are “natural barenia croc bags but not barenia tanned” so wouldn’t that make them just the color natural, like a croc bag in Fauve color?
My thoughts would be if the blind stamp is for saddle leather, why would that be used on an exotic bag? Do horse riders use exotic leather saddles? I have no clue as I am not knowledgeable about horses. Barenia refers to the oil tanned process. It’s listed as a “type” of leather however it is barenia because of the tanning process, thus could be applied to different leather skins making them barenia also. Maybe H switched to blind stamp on all barenia tanned bags around the time they came out with barenia faubourg? Just an idea…
My thoughts would be if the blind stamp is for saddle leather, why would that be used on an exotic bag? Do horse riders use exotic leather saddles? I have no clue as I am not knowledgeable about horses. Barenia refers to the oil tanned process. It’s listed as a “type” of leather however it is barenia because of the tanning process, thus could be applied to different leather skins making them barenia also. Maybe H switched to blind stamp on all barenia tanned bags around the time they came out with barenia faubourg? Just an idea…
I would be more than happy to clarify! I certainly understand how this can be a bit confusing. Below, I have highlighted and underlined the portion in which I talk about stamps being related to era:
Regarding Fauve Barenia vs. Fauve vs. Naturel Barenia, these are all examples of era-specific nomenclature. As far as I know, "Naturel Barenia", which applies to exotic bags made before 2007 roughly, refers solely to the colour of the bag. "Fauve Barenia", on the other hand, denotes both the colour and the tanning process used. In other words, the word "Barenia", when used to describe exotic bags made before 2007, did not necessarily apply to the tanning process used for those bags.
Simplified overview of this theory:
"Naturel Barenia" - This term refers only to the colour of exotic bags. As I mentioned, these bags may not have been actually Barenia tanned. To my knowldge, bags in this colour were only made before 2007. Since "Naturel" is not an available colour for exotics, "Naturel Barenia" was the name chosen to represent these would-be "Naturel" exotic bags.
"Fauve" - This colour was the official replacement for Naturel Barenia, as it refers only to the colour of the leather (as opposed to the colour and the tanning process).
"Fauve Barenia" - This term refers not only to the colour of the leather, but also to the tanning process used to produce said leather. Fauve Barenia, which comes only in Gator, is very similar to (but not the same as) Naturel Barenia, which came in Croc and possibly in Gator too.
While this would seem to make sense, Hermès has used blind stamps for non-saddle leathers like Peau de Porc, Chamonix, etc., so this isn't necessarily true. I suppose horse riders could use exotic leather saddles, but it would be insanely expensive and not as practical-- more of a show piece than an actual everyday saddle.
Precisely, though as far as I know, this only applies to regular Barenia leather and Fauve Barenia for exotics.
There may be some truth to this, however I have seen blind stamped Fauve Barenia Gator bags from before Barenia Faubourg was released around 2017. I recently saw one on the Christie's website from 2015.
Edited to correct spelling.
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@r luvs h Thank you so much for clarifying. Your explanation was perfect and now I understand completely. I was getting lost in keeping everything straight in my mind! What we all can be certain of, is this mystery is certainly in line with Hermes, haha!
Hmm… Hermes likely would have had an “x” amount of time for r&d, design,etc before they released bareina faubourg. Maybe around 2015, when they were preparing for barenia faubourg they decided moving forward all barenia tanned leathers (this including exotics) would be blind stamped. This could explain why a craftsman said all barenia is blind stamped, as this is the current “policy.” Just a hypothesis…
Hmm… Hermes likely would have had an “x” amount of time for r&d, design,etc before they released bareina faubourg. Maybe around 2015, when they were preparing for barenia faubourg they decided moving forward all barenia tanned leathers (this including exotics) would be blind stamped. This could explain why a craftsman said all barenia is blind stamped, as this is the current “policy.” Just a hypothesis…
Well, there are blind-stamped Barenia gator bags from 2011, so it's not that.
OT but isn't Chamonix a brown stamp, not a blind stamp?
Also OT but as a rider (not a good one), no, I don't know anyone who would use exotics for riding saddles except for trim in show saddles. It wouldn't be comfortable or perform well. Might be different from culture to culture or style to style but tbh it makes my anatomy sore just thinking about it!
Adding that earlier in this thread you can clearly see @birkinglover posted a Barenia Gator Birkin with a foil stamp from 2012 and says it is indistinguishable from Fauve Matte Gator. So it remains a mystery.
I will note again that my Fauve Matte Gator Birkin looks and feels like the Barenia version, but it is not (the receipt says Fauve Matte Gator). However, my Paris SA is a department head who has been with H over ten years, and when I carried that bag, they were certain the bag was the Barenia version. So I am not sure it's all that easy to tell the difference.
I will note again that my Fauve Matte Gator Birkin looks and feels like the Barenia version, but it is not (the receipt says Fauve Matte Gator). However, my Paris SA is a department head who has been with H over ten years, and when I carried that bag, they were certain the bag was the Barenia version. So I am not sure it's all that easy to tell the difference.
My mistake!
I was in a rush, but yes, you are correct. I think I meant to say Vache Naturelle maybe.I can understand not being able to tell the difference between fauve matte and fauve barenia from pictures or independent of each in real life. However, if you compare the two in real life side by side or have had a chance to be familiar with both, there is NO MISTAKING the difference. If you have seen, touched and smelled barenia gator in real life you would know the difference. I can totally understand if you have never experienced Fauve barenia gator that you could be convinced matte Fauve gator was barenia. Going back thru the thread and looking at the Sydspy’s Fauve Matte gator bearn and Birkinglover barenia gator birkin, the colors are different even. The Fauve matte has a darker border around each scale, whereas the barenia gator does not. This is also noticeable in my Fauve matte cdc vs barenia gator birkin.
I can only go by my experience, and I have handled both bags. YMMV. I am only sharing experiences, asking questions, and noting opinions I have been given; I am no expert, nor am I looking for conflict or arguments, only to learn. Not sure what else to say.
Reviving this thread. Does anyone know if Barenia matte alligator is still in production? A B25 in this with PHW would be my absolute dream 🤩…I already have a Fauve Barenia B25 with GHW but I would move heaven and earth for it in Barenia matte alligator 😍🐊🤎🧡
It is still in production, and still exceedingly rare.