Authenticate This COACH - **see first post for format**

TPF may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, and others

#47,869
IMPORTANT READ-ME

Please post authenticity questions related to COACH in this thread. No PMs please.
For further information, please refer to the first post on page 1 of this thread.

Please follow the following requests:
  • Before you submit a request for authentication, please search this thread to make sure that the item has not previously been authenticated by searching the seller ID and/or item number. This is not a thread to ask general questions about COACH, please refer to our main Coach forum for such information.
  • Note that authenticators have the right to refuse any requests. This is a free service, but it is imperative that you help our authenticators by using the following format:
  • FOR ITEMS LISTED ONLINE:
    Item:
    Listing number:
    Seller and site where listed
    Link:
    Comments:

  • FOR ITEMS NOT LISTED ONLINE:
    Item:
    Where purchased or how obtained
    Comments:
BASIC PICTURES REQUIRED (but more may be requested): If necessary pictures are in the listing, it's not necessary to upload and duplicate them.
  • Front of item
  • Back of item
  • Full clear and legible creed text and serial number
  • Made in tags (when available)
  • Measurements
  • For bags with turnlock closures, show pictures of back of female side of turnlock
  • For bags with magnetic snaps, show pictures of the male part of the snap so that the numbers and letters on it can be read
  • If applicable, search interior of bag and/or pockets for small white tag with production information and include a picture of that.
Thank you and be safe!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mooshooshoo, jenAC, joeesan and 107 others
#13,411
Catbird9 said:
For comparison, here's a gray one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Coa...crAFDVQryxLI7qddiVJaM%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
Click to expand...

whateve said:
authentic.

It came in flannel gray. I had a gray large saddle pouch and it was on the blue side of gray, not close to taupe at all. The best way to tell on an unrehabbed bag is to look at leather inside the bag where it wouldn't have faded.bThe picture doesn't look gray to me. It has a brownish tinge.
Click to expand...

So I guess this was flannel gray in it's youth. Here are photos from beneath the front flap with a black convertible clutch bag next to it. But the front flap has definitely lost its blues/grayish color and has brownish undertones (I guess the natural color of the leather as the dye has faded)
 

Attachments

  • IMG_9887.jpg
    IMG_9887.jpg
    25.7 KB · Views: 153
  • IMG_9888.jpg
    IMG_9888.jpg
    26.9 KB · Views: 151
#13,412
Hyacinth said:
That one's genuine. It's the ones with NT- prefixes that are fake.
Click to expand...

Hyacinth said:
Has to be from 1993, the line was introduced in 1994
Click to expand...



Just so I'm understanding, you're saying that even though the Sonoma line was introduced in 1994, they made Sonomas in 1993.

Did they make all styles in 1993 or only certain styles?

Info much appreciated as I'm still learning about this line!
 
#13,413
#13,414
Catbird9 said:
Hi, could someone please tell me if this is authentic? Thanks!

Item: Vintage-Coach-Pebbled-Brown-Leather-Shoulder-Bag-Purse
Listing: 252300078312
Seller: sailor31540
Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Coa...r-/252300078312?ssPageName=ADME:B:BOC:US:1123

Comment: compared to this one, same plant code, different year, it looks different http://www.ebay.com/itm/COACH-B5B-4...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Click to expand...
I think that you'll find that between April 1995 (D5...) and May 1995 (E5...), the dies for the creed were changed, with the latter initiating the incorporation of the "made in" information into the creed text (as opposed to along the bottom of the creed). Please wait till others confirm.
 
#13,415
I just wanted to take the time to thank everyone again for their help and the wonderful education I've gotten over the past few days. Obviously, my faith in eBay sellers has been somewhat shaken by this, but given the information I've found here, I'm actually comforted that I can be reasonably sure that my other Court bags are, in fact, authentic. I'm quite convinced that this recent black one, however, is not. To be honest, looking at it in daylight as I have over the past couple of days, it really isn't even a terribly good fake.

The eBay folks have come through with a return label, so said Court bag is currently in route back to the seller. I do get the impression she intends to relist it, so I imagine we'll be seeing it again. ;)

Thanks again for everything! I'll certainly be visiting before making any other purchases.

(Since it's been asked - I'm sincerely doubting there's going to be any "double your money back guarantee" honored here, but I'm very relieved to be out of the situation without being out any money. That was really my only goal to begin with.)
 
#13,416
Catbird9 said:
Hi, could someone please tell me if this is authentic? Thanks!

Item: Vintage-Coach-Pebbled-Brown-Leather-Shoulder-Bag-Purse
Listing: 252300078312
Seller: sailor31540
Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Coa...r-/252300078312?ssPageName=ADME:B:BOC:US:1123

Comment: compared to this one, same plant code, different year, it looks different http://www.ebay.com/itm/COACH-B5B-4...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Click to expand...

RL Bernstein said:
I think that you'll find that between April 1995 (D5...) and May 1995 (E5...), the dies for the creed were changed, with the latter initiating the incorporation of the "made in" information into the creed text (as opposed to along the bottom of the creed). Please wait till others confirm.
Click to expand...

To confirm what RLBernstein has already said, the B plant stamps were in the process of changing during that time (different plant creed stamps and serial numbers were upgraded at different times, and of course plants used different stamps for different types of leathers, so don't use one plant's stamp history to analyze any other plant's). The change at the B plant seems like it ran from about April 1995 to June of that year, possibly with some overlap depending on the bag style.

That's why we always emphasize that things like creed and serial number stamp details from 2 or more different bags can only be compared if they were made in the same month, year and plant - and sometimes not even then. When Coach was in the process of packing up the plants and moving to China, a lot of very weird things happened.

A few of the smaller plants and the "floater" stamping kits they used actually held off on the change until 1996. Like with everything else about Coach, their most consistent thing about them is their inconsistency.
 
Last edited:
#13,417
RL Bernstein said:
I think that you'll find that between April 1995 (D5...) and May 1995 (E5...), the dies for the creed were changed, with the latter initiating the incorporation of the "made in" information into the creed text (as opposed to along the bottom of the creed). Please wait till others confirm.
Click to expand...
Hyacinth said:
To confirm what RLBernstein has already said, the B plant stamps were in the process of changing during that time (different plant creed stamps and serial numbers were upgraded at different times, and of course plants used different stamps for different types of leathers, so don't use one plant's stamp history to analyze any other plant's). The change at the B plant seems like it ran from about April 1995 to June of that year, possibly with some overlap depending on the bag style.

That's why we always emphasize that things like creed and serial number stamp details from 2 or more different bags can only be compared if they were made in the same month, year and plant - and sometimes not even then. When Coach was in the process of packing up the plants and moving to China, a lot of very weird things happened.

A few of the smaller plants and the "floater" stamping kits they used actually held off on the change until 1996. Like with everything else about Coach, their most consistent thing about them is their inconsistency.
Click to expand...

Thank you both, very helpful! Once again, :tpfrox:
 
#13,418
Andalucian said:
I just wanted to take the time to thank everyone again for their help and the wonderful education I've gotten over the past few days. Obviously, my faith in eBay sellers has been somewhat shaken by this, but given the information I've found here, I'm actually comforted that I can be reasonably sure that my other Court bags are, in fact, authentic. I'm quite convinced that this recent black one, however, is not. To be honest, looking at it in daylight as I have over the past couple of days, it really isn't even a terribly good fake.

The eBay folks have come through with a return label, so said Court bag is currently in route back to the seller. I do get the impression she intends to relist it, so I imagine we'll be seeing it again. ;)

Thanks again for everything! I'll certainly be visiting before making any other purchases.

(Since it's been asked - I'm sincerely doubting there's going to be any "double your money back guarantee" honored here, but I'm very relieved to be out of the situation without being out any money. That was really my only goal to begin with.)
Click to expand...

I hope the seller swallows her pride and realizes that her self-authentication in this case was a mistake and that the fake should be destroyed. But if we have to report it again, we will, and we have enough photos saved here (and probably in 1 or 2 other photo files at least) to prove that it was NOT made by Coach.

If she's till reading this thread, I also want to emphasize that although buying and selling dozens of Coaches can make someone feel like an expert, unless he or she takes the time to study each one and save notes and photos especially of the creeds, serial numbers, plant codes and production dates and any unusual details, all that supposed knowledge is useless. It may help someone spot the bleedin' obvious mistakes like misaligned C patterns or Made in Korea creeds but it doesn't help one little bit when it comes to things like invalid serial number codes, or details that have only been discussed here at tPF like indents in the back of the turnlock.

But I DON'T understand how the seller could have looked at that horrible stitching on the back of the bag by the pocket and not questioned whether it would have ever been allwed to leave a Coach factory in that condition. Once in a while you'll see a Coach with a bit of slightly wonky stitching, but there's usually an obvious reason for it, or it could be just a case of an inexperienced employee or someone losing concentration for a few seconds. But not in this case. Funny, because way back when (and by that I mean 8 or 10 years) the only accepted way of "authenticating" a Coach was by the quality of the leather and the stitching, that one would have raised red flags all over the place. Ten years of putting together information on stamps, serial numbers, creeds and production codes has made authenticating a lot more precise, but some things never change and a major failure in the quality of the workmanship is one of them.

BTW, for some strange reason the newer version of the forum software seems to be having a problem with the first mention of the name Coach in every post, which is why in a few places I've had to tweak the C0ach name a bit. I'm NOT forgetting to type it, the bloody forum' is deleting it for some reason. It ain't me, I swear it ain't!
 
Last edited:
#13,419
Sonoma said:
Just so I'm understanding, you're saying that even though the Sonoma line was introduced in 1994, they made Sonomas in 1993.

Did they make all styles in 1993 or only certain styles?

Info much appreciated as I'm still learning about this line!
Click to expand...

Of course, they often made examples of a new style a few months before its official release. They still do! Look at the posts in the main section of the Coach forum from the hundreds of posters who have seen and ordered new styles well before their actual introduction, often months before - and introductions today are much quicker than they were back then. The only thing that separates 1993 from 1994 is a single day on the calendar, it's not some giant chasm that has to be bridged. I've seen other Sonomas with old-style serial numbers before, it's not a problem as long as the bag itself is genuine. There could have even been a delay in getting the new creed and serial number stamps to the plant - remember, this was a brand-new creed wording for the Sonoma line, and just because serial number details changed "IN" 1994, that doesn't necessarily mean that every single plant had the new stamps ready to go into bags on January 2nd. So far I haven't found a serial with an A4E- prefix, so what were they using until the new stamp was ready?

And in the case of a line like the Sonomas, this was a brand-new experiment for them. AFAIK they'd never used that type of nubuc before, the hardware was also brand new, and not only were many of the styles also experimental but so was the color selection. And trust me, with the Italian plant they probably allowed some extra time to work out the production kinks. It took them 3 or 4 years just to get the creed and serial stampings consistent! :graucho:
 
Last edited:
#13,420
Hyacinth said:
Of course, they often made examples of a new style a few months before its official release. They still do! Look at the posts in the main section of the Coach forum from the hundreds of posters who have seen and ordered new styles well before their actual introduction, often months before - and introductions today are much quicker than they were back then. The only thing that separates 1993 from 1994 is a single day on the calendar, it's not some giant chasm that has to be bridged. I've seen other Sonomas with old-style serial numbers before, it's not a problem as long as the bag itself is genuine.

And in the case of a line like the Sonomas, this was a brand-new experiment for them. AFAIK they'd never used that type of nubuc before, the hardware was also brand new, and not only were many of the styles also experimental but so was the color selection. And trust me, with the Italian plant they probably allowed some extra time to work out the production kinks. It took them 3 or 4 years just to get the creed and serial stampings consistent! :graucho:
Click to expand...


Thanks so much Hyacinth, this is so interesting! And logical, I just never thought about it.

I've only seen four 1993 Sonomas in my eBay and forum travels so far - the 4907 and 4903, all made in Italy.

What you've shared has piqued my curiosity (plus the Italian leather is my favorite).
Now I'll be on the lookout for more!
 
#13,421
Andalucian said:
To be honest, looking at it in daylight as I have over the past couple of days, it really isn't even a terribly good fake.
Click to expand...
Exactly, and a seller with the experience coachclassics claims to have with Coach, she should have at least questioned it!

Andalucian said:
I do get the impression she intends to relist it, so I imagine we'll be seeing it again. ;)

*snip*

(Since it's been asked - I'm sincerely doubting there's going to be any "double your money back guarantee" honored here, but I'm very relieved to be out of the situation without being out any money. That was really my only goal to begin with.)
Click to expand...

If it's relisted, coachclassics certainly will be reported, having collected a few fans here with her hardheaded attitude.

And if ebay removes the listing again after it was already removed once, she could conceivably seeing the end of her ebay selling career.

I know I'll be watching!

And she claims that she will offer the 2X guarantee. Please let us know if she follows through.
 
#13,422

Attachments

  • photo 26.JPG
    photo 26.JPG
    123.6 KB · Views: 157
  • photo 25.JPG
    photo 25.JPG
    109.2 KB · Views: 155
  • photo 24.JPG
    photo 24.JPG
    141.8 KB · Views: 156
  • photo 27.JPG
    photo 27.JPG
    111.2 KB · Views: 154
  • photo 28.JPG
    photo 28.JPG
    114.4 KB · Views: 156
  • photo 29.JPG
    photo 29.JPG
    158.1 KB · Views: 157
#13,425
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top