Authenticate This COACH - **see first post for format**

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#47,869
IMPORTANT READ-ME

Please post authenticity questions related to COACH in this thread. No PMs please.
For further information, please refer to the first post on page 1 of this thread.

Please follow the following requests:
  • Before you submit a request for authentication, please search this thread to make sure that the item has not previously been authenticated by searching the seller ID and/or item number. This is not a thread to ask general questions about COACH, please refer to our main Coach forum for such information.
  • Note that authenticators have the right to refuse any requests. This is a free service, but it is imperative that you help our authenticators by using the following format:
  • FOR ITEMS LISTED ONLINE:
    Item:
    Listing number:
    Seller and site where listed
    Link:
    Comments:

  • FOR ITEMS NOT LISTED ONLINE:
    Item:
    Where purchased or how obtained
    Comments:
BASIC PICTURES REQUIRED (but more may be requested): If necessary pictures are in the listing, it's not necessary to upload and duplicate them.
  • Front of item
  • Back of item
  • Full clear and legible creed text and serial number
  • Made in tags (when available)
  • Measurements
  • For bags with turnlock closures, show pictures of back of female side of turnlock
  • For bags with magnetic snaps, show pictures of the male part of the snap so that the numbers and letters on it can be read
  • If applicable, search interior of bag and/or pockets for small white tag with production information and include a picture of that.
Thank you and be safe!
 
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#15,737
go2girl99 said:
please authenticate this.
Is it poss for a serial# to completely come off?? I did request another pic of the creed area.....
item: Vintage 70s COACH STEWARDESS Tan Leather Satchel Flap Tote Purse Bag NYC USA
Listing number:371665925075
seller: http://www.ebay.com/usr/station_85?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/37166592507...s=es=es,nqc=nqc,nqt=nqt,ec=ec,exe=exe,ext=ext
Click to expand...
It looks authentic. I don't think it is possible for a serial # to come completely off unless it is one of the glued on kind. I think this one never had a number as it was made before numbers were used.
 
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#15,739
whateve said:
It looks authentic. I don't think it is possible for a serial # to come completely off unless it is one of the glued on kind. I think this one never had a number as it was made before numbers were used.
Click to expand...
I've had several Stewardesses come through that had creeds but no numbers. If I recall correctly, #9525 Stewardess bags were introduced in Spring 1977. So early production would fall in the era right before the introduction of the glued-in registration numbers (which indeed did have the habit of falling off leaving only the perimeter frame for it and "COACH BAG REGISTRATION NUMBER" stamped in the space below the creed) and subsequent directly stamped serial numbers. Does this match accepted timelines and catalogs?

ETA: Here's a photo of the creed tag from an unused #9525 that I retain as an example of the style.
Saddle Stewardess.jpgupload_2016-6-28_14-50-30.png upload_2016-6-28_14-50-30.png
 
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#15,740
RL Bernstein said:
I've had several Stewardesses come through that had creeds but no numbers. If I recall correctly, #9525 Stewardess bags were introduced in Spring 1977. So early production would fall in the era right before the introduction of the glued-in registration numbers (which indeed did have the habit of falling off leaving only the perimeter fram for it and "COACH BAG REGISTRATION NUMBER" stamped in the space below the creed) and subsequent directly stamped serial numbers. Does this match accepted timelines and catalogs?

ETA: Here's a photo of the creed tag from an unused #9525 that I retain as an example of the style.
View attachment 3394011View attachment 3394016 View attachment 3394016
Click to expand...

And for reference, here's a photo of a later creed with (missing) glued-in registration number.
Glued-in registration number.jpg
 
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#15,741
RL Bernstein said:
And for reference, here's a photo of a later creed with (missing) glued-in registration number.
View attachment 3394028
Click to expand...

Whateve is much more familiar with those early bags than I, so she knows more details. Most of the timeline before around 1985 is just educated guesswork, even the SacsMagnifiques1941 Hangtag and Creed Guide doesn't have exact dates.
http://sacsmagnifiques.com/2013/11/...gos-hangtags-a-chronological-perspective.html

The one pre-1985 thing I'm pretty sure about is that bags made during Bonnie Cashin's day wouldn't have had stamped creeds and definitely not serial numbers, but I'll let the vintage collectors try to make more sense of the rest of the dates than I can.
 
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#15,744
RL Bernstein said:
I've had several Stewardesses come through that had creeds but no numbers. If I recall correctly, #9525 Stewardess bags were introduced in Spring 1977. So early production would fall in the era right before the introduction of the glued-in registration numbers (which indeed did have the habit of falling off leaving only the perimeter frame for it and "COACH BAG REGISTRATION NUMBER" stamped in the space below the creed) and subsequent directly stamped serial numbers. Does this match accepted timelines and catalogs?

ETA: Here's a photo of the creed tag from an unused #9525 that I retain as an example of the style.
View attachment 3394011View attachment 3394016 View attachment 3394016
Click to expand...

RL Bernstein said:
And for reference, here's a photo of a later creed with (missing) glued-in registration number.
View attachment 3394028
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I was trying to say. I don't have any catalog pictures showing early stewardess bags so I'm not sure of the intro date but 1977 seems about right. They probably started making them up to 18 months prior which would account for the lack of a number. We don't know exactly when they started using numbers, just some time in the late 70s.

I'm in the minority here, but I believe that some creeds with stamped numbers predate the glued-in numbers. In my opinion, the glued in numbers were used up until around 1983. (I got one with a 1983 catalog.) I believe both glued-in and stamped numbers were used at the same time, possibly as an efficient way to reduce a bottleneck at the stamping machine.

There is an old discussion on here about the use of the "registration number" with the registered trademark symbol. Someone did some research and found they were using this symbol even though there was no record they had registered the trademark at the time. It is likely they abandoned the use of it around the time Sara Lee's lawyers had a look.
 
#15,745
RL Bernstein said:
I've had several Stewardesses come through that had creeds but no numbers. If I recall correctly, #9525 Stewardess bags were introduced in Spring 1977. So early production would fall in the era right before the introduction of the glued-in registration numbers (which indeed did have the habit of falling off leaving only the perimeter frame for it and "COACH BAG REGISTRATION NUMBER" stamped in the space below the creed) and subsequent directly stamped serial numbers. Does this match accepted timelines and catalogs?

ETA: Here's a photo of the creed tag from an unused #9525 that I retain as an example of the style.
View attachment 3394011View attachment 3394016 View attachment 3394016
Click to expand...
Wow..the amount of knowledge here is astounding thanks for the photo proof

Sent from my SCH-I545 using PurseForum mobile app
 
#15,746
whateve said:
That's exactly what I was trying to say. I don't have any catalog pictures showing early stewardess bags so I'm not sure of the intro date but 1977 seems about right. They probably started making them up to 18 months prior which would account for the lack of a number. We don't know exactly when they started using numbers, just some time in the late 70s.

I'm in the minority here, but I believe that some creeds with stamped numbers predate the glued-in numbers. In my opinion, the glued in numbers were used up until around 1983. (I got one with a 1983 catalog.) I believe both glued-in and stamped numbers were used at the same time, possibly as an efficient way to reduce a bottleneck at the stamping machine.

There is an old discussion on here about the use of the "registration number" with the registered trademark symbol. Someone did some research and found they were using this symbol even though there was no record they had registered the trademark at the time. It is likely they abandoned the use of it around the time Sara Lee's lawyers had a look.
Click to expand...

Indeed, there does not appear to be really good consensus on a lot of the conjectures involving the pre-catalog era, even the generalzations. And (the expected) COACH inconsistencies between the various style of; fabric tags, small leather COACH tags, Bonnie Cashin metal tags, COACH metal tags, and COACH cartouche imprints found it the pre-1974(?) bags makes it even more challenging. Debi’s guide is certainly helpful, but not definitive. Methinks the COACH archives should offer up a “modes of identification” timeline, even if the individual method bars overlap each other.
 
#15,747
RL Bernstein said:
Indeed, there does not appear to be really good consensus on a lot of the conjectures involving the pre-catalog era, even the generalzations. And (the expected) COACH inconsistencies between the various style of; fabric tags, small leather COACH tags, Bonnie Cashin metal tags, COACH metal tags, and COACH cartouche imprints found it the pre-1974(?) bags makes it even more challenging. Debi’s guide is certainly helpful, but not definitive. Methinks the COACH archives should offer up a “modes of identification” timeline, even if the individual method bars overlap each other.
Click to expand...
At times people on the forum have proven more knowledgeable about vintage Coach than Jed of Coach. For example, there is a style that several tpfers own that he has no knowledge of. I don't think he is in possession of much more information than we are, other than having all those fantastic old bags. The procedures and whys and whens weren't saved by anyone in Coach so we are all guessing.
 
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#15,750
whateve said:
At times people on the forum have proven more knowledgeable about vintage Coach than Jed of Coach. For example, there is a style that several tpfers own that he has no knowledge of. I don't think he is in possession of much more information than we are, other than having all those fantastic old bags. The procedures and whys and whens weren't saved by anyone in Coach so we are all guessing.
Click to expand...

VERY true. Coach never seemed to have any interest in their own history until they finally began setting up the archives (probably originally as a place to find old designs for recycling), and I doubt if much was saved when they cleared out the old factory and offices in NYC. Most of the information probably comes from old catalogs. AFAIK, no one from the Archives has ever joined tPF to ask for information. (Debi was a member here long before she connected with the Archive so that doesn't really count).

It's always been a pretty common practice in business to dispose of old records by discarding and even burning them, a few months' worth of watching the US and and especially the British versions of Antiques Roadshow will make that pretty clear. It's doubtful if Coach was any different, in fact it's always seemed that both management and employees for the most part adapted a Don't Give A Shyte attitude in the late '90s when the move to China became a certainty. Management at that time didn't care about the past, just the future and whether or not they'd still have their jobs. And most employees who know they're about to be made redundant have little or no interest in saving company history, they probably would have happily helped feed that big bonfire behind the building with as much of the company history as they could get their hands on.

(Regarding my own specialty, I also SERIOUSLY doubt if anyone at Coach knows or cares about fakes of older styles either. My instinct tells me that some of those bags going back as far as the late 80s might not have been made by Coach.)
 
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