2019 resolution - shopping my own bag and wallet collection. Any one else?

[Cookiefiend]

1) Do you know how much your total collection cost? Do you care? Has anyone ever thought to manage their bags by total cost vs total number, total amount of space, etc? If you knew how much your collection cost would it change your behavior?

I have no idea but could add it up pretty quickly. The number isn’t important to me at all.

2) How do you and your family communicate with each other on what you want as gifts? We keep Pinterest pages - one is X’s Wish List (items over $1000) and the other is X’s stocking stuffers. That way we always have a number of things to choose from that are exactly what the person wants but they’re still surprised. Getting my DS to use Pinterest was a problem til he saw how happy my DS was with her presents.

I do know how much each purse cost, but don't add it up or really think much about it. I thought about the cost at the time of purchase but after that, not so much really.

Speaking of food, what is everyone’s favorite foods - main meal item, dessert and drink?

Pasta. Comfort food at it's finest.
I have a 'thing' for cookies. But I am picky. For Christmas this year I made simple sugar cookies like my grandmother made, date nut pinwheels like DH's grandmother made, ginger cookies, and eggnog kringla. Those are our favorites.
Champagne.

I took DS & DD to the mall today as both are in town and needed to finish their Christmas shopping. As we poked around, I spent time purse, outfit and hair watching.

Horrified moment: I was surprised how many people were out without combing their hair. I understand the world is more casual than I’d like (pjs in public, bra straps and underwear showing, etc.) but, have we reached such a low point that perhaps 15% of women had obviously not touched their heads before leaving the house? Have I been blind because I didn’t know this is a “thing.” What makes that ok? Did they bathe or is that optional now too?

To bags. Of course there were tons of MK and LV Neverfuls (isn’t the NF the most popular item for LV?) But, I also I saw quite a few nice bags that I don’t usually see.

I saw a cute black LV Twist, a lovely red Lady Dior, a very interesting dark red and gold Chanel Boy, a black BV nodini and an ombré blue LV Capucines. I also saw a few Chloe Drew bags. I’ve always liked those but thought they had waned in popularity.

YSL WOC and smaller bags were everywhere. I’ve never seen that many YSL bags in a day. Made me wonder if there was a sale or if someone was counterfeiting. Chanel jumbos were also very much out and popular today.

Interestingly, I saw a Jumbo almost exactly the same color as my ivory. And, I didn’t like it on the person who was carrying it. That may have been the death knell for the bag. I don’t like to wear it and I didn’t like it on someone else. Hmmmm... I’m going to let this sit til spring and see what I think.

Since I was there, I got some stocking stuffers for my family. Nothing too remarkable. But, I bought a different color watch band for the LV watch I bought Mr. S for his birthday this year. They have a ton of options. My main gifts for him this year are vintage wraparound cufflinks and a new tuxedo. Remember we went tuxedo shopping a while back and he couldn’t find what he liked? Well, I hunted and got what I think will be perfect. Classic with just a touch of unique. One of the gifts I’m giving the kiddos is what I’m calling a young adult Survival and Civility kit (LOL!) things like a paid AAA membership, combo flashlight / emergency radio / phone charger gizmo, thank you notes and stamps, book of Van Gogh’s letters, etc. - and I put it all in a locking fireproof box they can use to store their important paperwork (passport, SS card, etc.) We also always give a family vacation in the next year as a gift.

For those of you giving gifts, what goodies did you put under the tree?

For the boys - computer parts (one likes to 'make' them himself), lots of kitchen stuff and some money for home repairs, a phone, a stereo receiver, and Doc Martens.
For the girls - a sewing machine, jewelry boxes, Doc Martens, Le Creuset, Champagne and chocolate
For our GD - a new iPad (she was so excited she burst into tears - aww honey!! )

I love Christmas!

 

[Annabel Lee]

(Told you I’m very active while I’m on holiday...)

I was replying on another thread about versatile bags, and I wanted to ask what you guys find to be your most versatile bag?

I think my black classic m/l flap is very versatile for obvious reasons (intermediate size, classic style, neutral colour).

Surprisingly I find some coloured bags quite versatile too. The Alma BB I bought this year has exceeded my expectations.

I recently took it away on a weekend.

- I was working in an office in a different city in the morning,

- meeting a friend for coffee in the afternoon,

- attending a black tie party in the evening,

- and then staying overnight including shopping/tourist things with my husband the next day.

It was perfect throughout.

Granted my Alma BB is in rose ballerine epi leather (much more formal than the canvas in my view) and I picked outfits that would match including a pink chiffon dress for the party, but I think that’s very flexible.

What are your most flexible bags?

I require most of my bags to be pretty versatile. In my daily life, I switch my shoes and bag every day, but I travel a lot, and I don't like packing a ton of shoes or a ton of bags . So the fewer bags I can bring with me, the happier I am. I look for day-to-night options, and most of my bags fit that category.

But if I absolutely HAD to pick, I'd probably say my Chanel Coco Boy. It fits way more than it should, works with clothing for all seasons and tends to go well with everything I own.

View attachment 4289213

Well, my sister was supposed to get a bag from me, but the package has gone missing. I got a confirmation that UPS delivered it yesterday, but it’s not there. I fear it was stolen off her porch. Fortunately, I remembered to put extra insurance on the package, so I’m hoping I can get my money back, but what a hassle. And she didn’t have anything from me to open on Christmas!

Ugh, how awful. Fingers crossed it just got misdelivered and still makes it back to her.

View attachment 4288982

This was not a Christmas gift, but I found this last month and bought it as an early birthday gift to me ( and good wishes to my fellow birthday buddy @ElainePG

).

Two things I had learned and really had reinforced from this thread last year are am I buying duplicates in color and style/function and what do feel is missing from my assortment of bags?

I was really missing some spots of color. I love that I have many black, red and neutral bags in my mostly vintage gang. Coach did make vintage bags in some great colors, but they are few and far between to be found, and most I do find are in terrible condition.

So anyway, About a year ago, I do see someone posting the Ace satchel in cornflower blue and all I could thing was Wow. Wow. Vintage-loving-me in love with a contemporary bag! Because it was discontinued and even it I could find it at half retail, it was still more than I wanted to pay. So I just simply admired it whenever I saw it posted on Passenger or WCBAYCT. It did reinforce my periodic search for a HG vintage bag in that shade of blue, cause you never know, right??

I was floored just before Thanksgiving to see it listed generically as a blue Coach satchel. With a starting bid of $50 and the buy it now option!! I made a modest offer and the next thing you know it’s being shipped to me for under $100

And I’ve been using this beauty since I do like to wear navy blue, denim and khaki. The style is not something I would choose for being out all day long, but it is great to take to the office.

It is very satisfying to make a make a purchase I never thought would be available at my price and on a bag that makes me say Wow. Repeatedly, lol. I felt like I had done my home work, and was able to seize the unexpected opportunity when it presented itself.


So here’s my question for everyone: What bag have you bought, that you truly enjoy, that was the result of doing your *homework*?

I love this success story! It was clearly meant to be.

The closest I have is the story of my one Tod's bag. I walked into a Tod's store out-of-state because I was eyeing these wild woven-detailed ankle boots in the window and my not-normally-enabling husband persuaded me I should go in and try them on. The SA was on the snooty side, and when I put the boots on, I could tell right away they were not for me. In the window, they were great, but on my feet, they were LOUD. My DH asked me what I thought, and I, trying to be tactful, said, "They're a little ... much."

Unfortunately both DH and the SA interpreted this as my balking at the price. SA got even snootier. DH took out his business card and said that if they were ever to go on sale, would she please contact him. The SA made no move to take his card and said they wouldn't go on sale as they'd just been released and were certain to sell out before they could ever go on sale.

During this exchange, I became captivated by a bag in the display next to me, a seasonal small wave bag, but with the SA responding as she was, I certainly wasn't going to ask about it, and we finally left.

A week or two later, I was still thinking about the bag, so I went online to look up the price. I found it was above the price range I'd consider reasonable for it, and guess what. The boots I'd tried on were on sale. Half price.

That left a bad taste in my mouth, so I moved on, but I still thought the bag was terrific, and it did fit a need in my closet. So several MONTHS later when I was still thinking about it, I contacted customer service. I almost immediately got a response that there was in fact ONE left in their inventory--it had gone to the outlets and was in fact sitting in an outlet in my state just a couple hours drive away. Even with that, they graciously offered to send it to me, gratis. I couldn't get my card out fast enough. Best of all, the price had come down significantly. So today it's mine, and I still love it.

A lot of my bags have been from doing my homework. There are been many bags I've stalked for ages, waiting for the perfect deal. Most of my vintage bags are in this category. Sometimes I got too impatient and paid more than I should. My Coach Bleecker large flaps were like this. My preferred color was wine but when a rust one appeared on ebay, I bought it. Then a month later a wine one appeared for half the price, so I got that one too. Now I can't say that I like one more than the other. I probably said I wanted a Ranch bag for over a year before I found one listed at a bargain price. I also searched for my red shoulder sac for a long time after trying out a black one and realizing I liked the style.


Other bags I have are happy accidents. I stumbled across them and they turned out to be just what I wanted.

Oh my, these are all stunning. I'm beginning to get an itch for vintage Coach!

 

[ipsum]

@Miss_Dawn
Would you like to share a sneak peak to your perfume collection? I got Jo Malone mini intense collection and I absolutely love it. However, I'm on the fence whether the regular collection would last enough because after all they are cologne.

Speaking of food, what is everyone’s favorite foods - main meal item, dessert and drink?

I love sea food too but unfortunately, it's hard to get super fresh sea food here in Northern Europe. Most of the ingredients are frozen. I'd have better chance if I move to Southern.
I love good food but hate spending time in the kitchen so nigiri sushi is my first choice. Easy to prepare. Dessert would be some sweet cake or sorbetto ice cream. I prefer hot drinks during winter like tea and hot chocolate and the same drinks served cold during summer

@Annabel Lee
Thanks for sharing your story. Do you have a pic of your Tod's beauty so we can admire it as well?

@vink
The cashmere scarf looks great one you. The silk one looks a bit "busy" and might be hard to pair with your outfits in your wardrobe.

 

[ElainePG]

I use theirs because they write so smoothly. So I don’t know if it takes others.

Actually I did some investigating, and nope... their pens only take their refills. I'm a bit tempted by their roller ball pens, because those also take a fibre cartridge which would make it a very versatile pen.

Hmmmmmm...

 

[ElainePG]

Yes, also a metallic. Here are the 4 bags I’d shortlisted as party clutches. Currently I don’t have any superbrand gold / silver bags, so I thought I could use one in a pale gold which would be flexible as a party clutch.

I ended up ordering the Jimmy Choo Florence bag (bottom right) which is on sale, at about one-quarter of the price of the YSL WOC, and is also a bigger capacity. But I need to see in real life to decide whether or not to keep.

They are all lovely, and I know the price of the Jimmy Choo is excellent, but I have to say, that YSL looks amazing! Will you get to see them side by side?

 

[ElainePG]

View attachment 4288982
This was not a Christmas gift, but I found this last month and bought it as an early birthday gift to me ( and good wishes to my fellow birthday buddy @ElainePG ).

Are we birthday twins??? Cheers to you! I hope your day was special!

 

[Miss_Lili]

I want to join in! I am planning a wedding among other things in 2019 and I want to curb my spending on accessories, excess clothing, jewlery, and cosmetics.

I just turned 30 and bought myself my first higher end hand bag and I am so excited for it to arrive (a small gucci marmot shoulder bag with flap in black). The rest of my bags are Tory Burch and Kate Spade and I love those bags too but I have wanted an LV, Chloe, or Gucci for years now and I have been holding out until I found the right one for me (one I liked enough to part with that much $ ). I have been lusting after certain chloes, LVs, and the smaller marmots for years now so I finally took the plunge! I have been going to bloomingdales and nordstroms just to visit the bags like they are puppies for the past few years now (and pick up a ton of cosmetics I dont need).

I will allow myself 1 handbag purchase in 2019 as I am eyeing other marmots or possibly a disco or an LV crossbody.

I have amassed a great age appropriate wardrobe and I think now I just need to focus on organzing my closet and using up all of my excess cosmetics or giving them away.

 

[lynne_ross]

I have been reading parts of this thread for the past couple years. I have found the thread participants’ thoughts/stories/advice both helpful and kind. I might try and follow along this year - just read through past 25 pages over the last few days!
I have been trying to shop my closet better, sell things I do not use and buy less more loved items over the past few years. I am finding my lifestyle keeps changing as I go on and off mat leave and change roles at work. Hopefully this year I am more settled and can evaluate what gaps I have in my closet.

My main goals this year are to 1) sell remaining bags I do not use, 2) figure out what pieces I need to sell/donate from my accessories and jewelry and then sell them and 3) add the 2 bags I have been considering buying - though I am in no rush and will wait to find the exact ones I am looking for. I’ll for sure add some more jewelry pieces and clothes/shoes, but I find I am at a point of being thoughtful about purchases for those items so no goal per se around it.
I love the tracking idea. I think I will try that for bags and accessories. Likely just use paper since I can keep that in my closet.

Wish everyone success this year are their goals.

 

[lynne_ross]

On the discussion on how much total bag collection costs, I don’t have that many bags so it is easy to calculate and I know the ballpark. I’ll admit the number bothers me a bit. My jewelry collection is worth way more but jewelry seems more ‘worth it’ to me. The total number was/is a factor in me selling a few of my Hermes bags. I am not managing to a number but I don’t want the number to increase from where it is today - forcing me to sell bags to be able to buy bags.

 

[Rhl2987]

I have been reading parts of this thread for the past couple years. I have found the thread participants’ thoughts/stories/advice both helpful and kind. I might try and follow along this year - just read through past 25 pages over the last few days!
I have been trying to shop my closet better, sell things I do not use and buy less more loved items over the past few years. I am finding my lifestyle keeps changing as I go on and off mat leave and change roles at work. Hopefully this year I am more settled and can evaluate what gaps I have in my closet.

My main goals this year are to 1) sell remaining bags I do not use, 2) figure out what pieces I need to sell/donate from my accessories and jewelry and then sell them and 3) add the 2 bags I have been considering buying - though I am in no rush and will wait to find the exact ones I am looking for. I’ll for sure add some more jewelry pieces and clothes/shoes, but I find I am at a point of being thoughtful about purchases for those items so no goal per se around it.
I love the tracking idea. I think I will try that for bags and accessories. Likely just use paper since I can keep that in my closet.

Wish everyone success this year are their goals.

Welcome! And glad to have you join in!

 

[Rhl2987]

I have been reading parts of this thread for the past couple years. I have found the thread participants’ thoughts/stories/advice both helpful and kind. I might try and follow along this year - just read through past 25 pages over the last few days!
I have been trying to shop my closet better, sell things I do not use and buy less more loved items over the past few years. I am finding my lifestyle keeps changing as I go on and off mat leave and change roles at work. Hopefully this year I am more settled and can evaluate what gaps I have in my closet.

My main goals this year are to 1) sell remaining bags I do not use, 2) figure out what pieces I need to sell/donate from my accessories and jewelry and then sell them and 3) add the 2 bags I have been considering buying - though I am in no rush and will wait to find the exact ones I am looking for. I’ll for sure add some more jewelry pieces and clothes/shoes, but I find I am at a point of being thoughtful about purchases for those items so no goal per se around it.
I love the tracking idea. I think I will try that for bags and accessories. Likely just use paper since I can keep that in my closet.

Wish everyone success this year are their goals.

Also, what are the bags that you’ve been eyeing?

 

[christinemliu]

Dear all, I would like to join the party too! I have also read this thread through and I hope to at some point read the 2018 thread..With both Massaccesi and Henri Bendel closing, I amassed quite a few bags that I really feel I should use what's in my collection before getting more.

@Sparkletastic
Main dish fave: mac and cheese...and with bacon, even better!
Dessert: cheesecake
Drink: Like @Annabel Lee, I love chai tea latte. Had one today in fact from Au Bon Pain.

@Lake Effect I think I have experienced what you did with your lovely Coach Ace Satchel a few times; finding something at a much better price either at an outlet, poshmark, or eBay; one time at a TJMaxx. Maybe my most memorable was that I loved the Coach Bleecker Cooper Satchel but discovered it too late. Then all the ones I saw on other places were the gray or the pink, which many said was a shade that was hard to find something to match when wearing it, or were the small size when I wanted the medium. 4 years after it was released, I found it listed just as Coach satchel on eBay, in new condition, for less than half its retail price and free shipping. I have attached a pic.

I want to do at least 2 of the challenges, maybe more. For sure the one about using 10 bags in 31 days and also New Year, New Bag (use 3 newest bags for at least 2 days)!.

 

[misstrine85]

There’s an idea for a slow week:

What is your oldest bag? Do you still use it? If not, why do you keep it?

It is my LV pochette in DE. I got it in 2017 and still use it. I love that bag.

 

[Rhl2987]

I’m currently in NYC for the Christmas holiday and I went out shopping with my Mom today. We stopped in LV, Chloe, Fendi, Dior, and Chanel. We will probably go to Hermes and Van Cleef tomorrow just for fun. I saw many beautiful bags but made out with only purchasing a pair of small hoop and pearl earrings from Dior. I do love the My Lady Dior bag and the new Chloe Tess bag though. The Chloe is much less expensive! But I doubt I will pull the trigger on either of these. Maybe if I ever see a Chloe Tess at a much lower price point I would be willing to. It’s lovely and very usable crossbody so I could see myself carting that around with a baby.

My big gift this year was an Apple Watch and I’m enjoying using that! Anyone else tempted by any shopping or post-holiday sales?

 

[Miss_Dawn]

Wow! That’s such a impressive collection! I’m pen envy a bit right now. [emoji4] I love stationary, it lean toward the cuteness so not really the luxury pen. I think my most expensive and adult-like is my Parker that my dad gifted me when I was in grade school. Probably around 10 years old, too, but it’s a roller pen. I have some fountain pen, but it’s nothing expensive. Your collection is really impressive. It actually reminds me of one time I went pen shopping for my favorite grandpa who’s now passed away. Never in my life I take pen shopping as serious as that time. I wish I know where it goes now.

Thank you very much. That’s very kind of you
That’s lovely, about going pen shopping for your grandfather. I hope you find out where it went.

Wow wow. how do you decide which to use? I love pen and paper. I have a soft spot for fountain pens because I was exposed to them early...we had to use them in grade school. I do find that if I put in a disposable cartridge, I really need to keep using it until it dries out (as it will dry out pretty quickly anyway..after a few weeks) I used to like to fill the self cartridge but then it seemed to dry out even faster, had to use the right ink, and clean it after each use. I should really start using them again. You have inspired me! Please share how you rotate your pens.

I carry one set around with me to use at work, which for a long while recently has been my MB Bohemes. At home, I write a daily journal and all my pens are fairly accessible so I just use on rotation, as the mood takes me. I agree ink cartridges and self-fill cartridges drying up is a problem, but generally when you let warm water run through the barrel, it all runs fine. I don’t fret about it much - it’s like washing makeup brushes, if you enjoy using them, you get used to the maintenance!

Fountain pen shopping is serious business. It’s really another form of jewelry I am inspired to start using them again just to spite my phone

Absolutely!
Hahahaha I love that you see your phone as an animate object to be spited

So chic and just perfect.

Oh thank you!

That is one sharp-looking bag. Mr. Dawn sounds like a perfect bag-shopping partner in crime!

Thank you!

We travel a lot too, and I've always felt like I should keep a travel journal but then it never happens. I did keep one of a very long ago trip but nothing more recent. What I'd like to remember most is where we stayed and ate so I'll know where to go the next time we are there. Recently, Google has reminded me of places we've been so that has been helpful.

I really like writing. And updating my travel journal on planes or trains is really straightforward. I use one of the small “Live, Laugh, Love” Smythson notebooks.

A lot of my bags have been from doing my homework. There are been many bags I've stalked for ages, waiting for the perfect deal. Most of my vintage bags are in this category. Sometimes I got too impatient and paid more than I should. My Coach Bleecker large flaps were like this. My preferred color was wine but when a rust one appeared on ebay, I bought it. Then a month later a wine one appeared for half the price, so I got that one too. Now I can't say that I like one more than the other. I probably said I wanted a Ranch bag for over a year before I found one listed at a bargain price. I also searched for my red shoulder sac for a long time after trying out a black one and realizing I liked the style.

Other bags I have are happy accidents. I stumbled across them and they turned out to be just what I wanted.

Ooooh, your collection of vintage Coach bags is really something. I love the last red one.

I require most of my bags to be pretty versatile. In my daily life, I switch my shoes and bag every day, but I travel a lot, and I don't like packing a ton of shoes or a ton of bags . So the fewer bags I can bring with me, the happier I am. I look for day-to-night options, and most of my bags fit that category.

But if I absolutely HAD to pick, I'd probably say my Chanel Coco Boy. It fits way more than it should, works with clothing for all seasons and tends to go well with everything I own.

View attachment 4289213



Ugh, how awful. Fingers crossed it just got misdelivered and still makes it back to her.



I love this success story! It was clearly meant to be.

The closest I have is the story of my one Tod's bag. I walked into a Tod's store out-of-state because I was eyeing these wild woven-detailed ankle boots in the window and my not-normally-enabling husband persuaded me I should go in and try them on. The SA was on the snooty side, and when I put the boots on, I could tell right away they were not for me. In the window, they were great, but on my feet, they were LOUD. My DH asked me what I thought, and I, trying to be tactful, said, "They're a little ... much."

Unfortunately both DH and the SA interpreted this as my balking at the price. SA got even snootier. DH took out his business card and said that if they were ever to go on sale, would she please contact him. The SA made no move to take his card and said they wouldn't go on sale as they'd just been released and were certain to sell out before they could ever go on sale.

During this exchange, I became captivated by a bag in the display next to me, a seasonal small wave bag, but with the SA responding as she was, I certainly wasn't going to ask about it, and we finally left.

A week or two later, I was still thinking about the bag, so I went online to look up the price. I found it was above the price range I'd consider reasonable for it, and guess what. The boots I'd tried on were on sale. Half price.

That left a bad taste in my mouth, so I moved on, but I still thought the bag was terrific, and it did fit a need in my closet. So several MONTHS later when I was still thinking about it, I contacted customer service. I almost immediately got a response that there was in fact ONE left in their inventory--it had gone to the outlets and was in fact sitting in an outlet in my state just a couple hours drive away. Even with that, they graciously offered to send it to me, gratis. I couldn't get my card out fast enough. Best of all, the price had come down significantly. So today it's mine, and I still love it.


Oh my, these are all stunning. I'm beginning to get an itch for vintage Coach!

That’s a great story.

You and your Tod’s bag were clearly meant to be.

Do you mean Chanel Boy or Chanel Coco Handle? Or do you mean that there’s a hybrid Coco Boy style I’m not aware of? (I’m imagining a Boy bag with a top handle!! Mind blown)

@Miss_Dawn
Would you like to share a sneak peak to your perfume collection? I got Jo Malone mini intense collection and I absolutely love it. However, I'm on the fence whether the regular collection would last enough because after all they are cologne.


I love sea food too but unfortunately, it's hard to get super fresh sea food here in Northern Europe. Most of the ingredients are frozen. I'd have better chance if I move to Southern.
I love good food but hate spending time in the kitchen so nigiri sushi is my first choice. Easy to prepare. Dessert would be some sweet cake or sorbetto ice cream. I prefer hot drinks during winter like tea and hot chocolate and the same drinks served cold during summer

@Annabel Lee
Thanks for sharing your story. Do you have a pic of your Tod's beauty so we can admire it as well?

@vink
The cashmere scarf looks great one you. The silk one looks a bit "busy" and might be hard to pair with your outfits in your wardrobe.

Thank you very much @ipsum

I wouldn’t manage to photograph all my perfumes - they’re spread over the house and my office! And I couldn’t manage to photograph all my makeup either. Way too much of it (but I promise my spending has slowed down!). I’ll try to take a few pictures when I’m back home.

I’m not massively fond of Jo Malone for the same reason (cologne vs edp).

What sort of scents do you like? If floral or fruity, I have rivers of scent, and I’m happy to recommend my favourites!

Fun fact - Mr Dawn and I have been to Grasse for a perfume making course and we made my own perfumes twice. Dawn 1, 2, 3 and 4 One sniff of Dawn 2 always transports me to the Riviera.

Actually I did some investigating, and nope... their pens only take their refills. I'm a bit tempted by their roller ball pens, because those also take a fibre cartridge which would make it a very versatile pen.

Hmmmmmm...

Go, go, go <enabling shamelessly>

They are all lovely, and I know the price of the Jimmy Choo is excellent, but I have to say, that YSL looks amazing! Will you get to see them side by side?

Yes, I’ve ordered it to collect in store at Selfridges so I’ll compare. I agree, the YSL is beautiful but small. The Jimmy Choo is much less expensive and bigger, so it’s a trade off of form vs function! Will have to go and compare.

Welcome to the thread @Miss_Lili and @lynne_ross