The problem is the wage is low because they shouldn't be hiring unskilled Labor for making the bags in the first place. I'm not buying a practice bag from someone who has know idea what they'r doing for thousands of dollars. I don't think people are understanding this whole situation should not even be a thing in the first place. They should not be hiring unskilled workers for $13 hour in the first place why would I pay thousands for a bag from someone who is an unskilled worker. unless there cutting the price of these bags down by a lot why would u buy them.
Why Louis Vuitton chose this ranch south of Fort Worth for a factory
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But how do you know this exact same deal isn’t the protocol in France and Spain?
So the problem for you is that the very expensive handbag you are purchasing is being made by an entry level worker who is starting at a low wage?
If the handbag was made by a worker who had been doing this for 20 years and was making four times, five times, six times the starting salary, then it would be acceptable?
I am not sure how a person would get 20 years of experience and a higher wage without being taught the skill, being paid a beginner’s wage and then simply putting in their time and becoming a seasoned artisan who will later command a higher wage.
Have you ever done crafts or made art or done woodworking? Some people have a knack, a talent for working with their hands. They have a natural gift for making things. Finding those people, having someone with more experience teach them, supervise them is how a craft is passed on.
We don’t know if the newbies are making the really expensive handbags. Who knows? Maybe they start them out cutting the materials, putting together handles or whatever. I would guess that LV does not just give someone two weeks training, then turn them loose with yards of empriente leather and say, hey we need 10 Speedy B bags this week.
I am trusting that LV, a company that has been making lovely handbags for a very long time, knows what they are doing. I doubt that this plant in Texas is the only place they have ever, in the history of the company, hired new, unskilled workers. LV has been running a very successful business for a very long time.
I think part of the problem here is we have gotten a peek behind the curtain. We have seen how the sausage is made and it is not romantic and pretty. It is a business that is run much like other businesses are run.
Keep in mind, eventually the unskilled workers learn the skill, then they become skilled workers, artisans. That takes time. Like I said, I doubt they are turning new workers loose with very expensive materials at the beginning.
If the problem is the wage gap between the new worker and the CEO, as unfair as that seems, the CEO has skills the new worker does not have. I certainly couldn’t run a multimillion/billion dollar company. That is way out of my lane. In general, people get paid for the skills they posses. That is why a doctor makes more money than a burger flipper.
If it really bothers people, they can purchase locally made artisan goods or Hermes.
Just watched a really good documentary on Netflix called American Factory about a Chinese company that bought a closed up GM car factory in Ohio. They put a lot of the old GM workers (some with 20 years factory work experience) to work at $12 an hour with glass product. Interesting watching the difference between cultures and work ethics.
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This is what the company does. This is how the bags are made. It’s not new. If you don’t like it you are free to purchase another brand. The only brand I can think of that might meet your criteria would be Hermes. Or perhaps specialty stores where bags are handmade. I know there are several shops in Italy.
Nevertheless, most of us here like Lv which is why we are on the forum. We will continue to buy as nothing has really changed other than opening a new factory to help meet high demand of bags. I’m not going to convince you to continue to buy LV. You’re not going to convince others they shouldn’t buy LV. After all, we are all on this forum because we love buying lv bags. That’s why we are here. And the opening of a new factory doesn’t change that.
I really don’t understand how some of these unskilled workers can become true artisans if they’re not given a chance to be hired or trained by being hired by companies like LV to be taught the art of making a LV handbag.
if LV doesn’t hire some unskilled workers to train them up, in about 30 years when the last artisan out there who is currently just starting out retires, we will have no more LV handbags.
if LV doesn’t hire some unskilled workers to train them up, in about 30 years when the last artisan out there who is currently just starting out retires, we will have no more LV handbags.
Untrained workers in France aren’t any different than new untrained workers elsewhere IMO. Luckily we have choices, if the romantic dream is broken, we have the freedom to choose another brand!
I just want to add that each product sold by the company pays for someone and something. The person who made the bag only accounts for a small percentage of who or what else needs to be paid and keep the lights on. We forget that they still have to pay for the really nice stores we love to visit, our SAs/CAs, the water, champagne that we get offered. The marketing/runway shows we look forward to every season. The list goes on.
The 11.50/13 hr is pretty low. However LV is investing on them and to turn them into craftswo/men or artisan. It is a starting wage like with any company. I started off $15 in Austin, TX for a tech Fortune 500 company and I'm a college graduate and have a few years of work experience before I got the job. I have moved up from that starting pay since I have gained more experience.
Imho let's be thankful that a company like LV wants to invest in our country. I'm also sure that they are still going to uphold quality like what they have always done and support their products. You cannot say that for a lot of companies these days. So far that is why I love the LV brand. I have a problem with my purchase, I can go back to them and they will make it right.
The 11.50/13 hr is pretty low. However LV is investing on them and to turn them into craftswo/men or artisan. It is a starting wage like with any company. I started off $15 in Austin, TX for a tech Fortune 500 company and I'm a college graduate and have a few years of work experience before I got the job. I have moved up from that starting pay since I have gained more experience.
Imho let's be thankful that a company like LV wants to invest in our country. I'm also sure that they are still going to uphold quality like what they have always done and support their products. You cannot say that for a lot of companies these days. So far that is why I love the LV brand. I have a problem with my purchase, I can go back to them and they will make it right.
T
the_black_tie_diyer
I think this is more about (personal) perception and expectation than anything else, and quite frankly - I can pretty much relate to that - although not with Louis Vuitton, as when I started purchasing from this brand, LVMH pretty much already was what it is today. That said, I enjoy the fact that my beloved Keepall 45 DG Band. and brand heritage/signature item was in fact Made in France. But if I had wanted a waterproof Keepall it wouldn't have bothered me that it is (was?) Made in Germany. And likewise for Made in USA, Made in Spain products.
I like high quality tools as I use them around the house, sometimes car, and backyard. Beside wanting highest quality tools possible, for a large part it's a purely/highly romanticized dream that got me into tools from US brand Snap-On.
Now Snap-On, like Louis Vuitton or better, LVMH, over time developed from a solely national manufacturer into something way more by buying other brands/manufacturers and overall globalization. Which brings me back to the point of heritage/signature products that I want to be Made in USA referring to Snap-On. Others come from Spain, Ireland, China - and I'm totally OK with that - as I know Snap-On backs this products, just as LV backs theirs.
Another hobby of mine are (handmade/ custom) knives. One of my early purchases was a Randall knife model #25. Randall knives are known world wide, if you want to buy one new from the factory you're de facto waiting for years before that order will be fulfilled - buying on the 2nd market fetches a hefty premium, not to speak of their vintage knives, sometimes fetching close to ridiculously insane prices. This brand lives of their heritage, fame & quality product: Made in Orlando, Florida - USA. Would they go the route that Snap-On and Louis Vuitton went, everything vintage/ neo-vintage Made in USA would increase in price, everything newer, then Made in *where ever", would need to be heavily discounted to be marketable. Not (necessarily) because of the quality of product, but because of buyers perception of the brand.
Louis Vuitton/LVMH chose this route and they are, very obviously, highly successful with it.
I do believe LV(MH) when they say they are aware of their social responsibility and act based on it/ base decisions on it. However, one can assume that such decisions are never purely based on altruistic motives.
And that is all I'm going to say, I guess we all read news.
When it comes to working as an employee, some of you know I was employed in "big/ stock noted corporate world" for a rather short time, and I always refer to this as my "crazy vacation into employment". I feel safe to say that a very big factor is if an employee can actually identify with his/her employer. I've especially experienced this with my American friends & colleagues, as they basically introduced me to this as it is way, way less noticeable/common in Germany. It's also something that I miss dearly in Germany, the lack of being proud to be part of a company or group/trade. I really don't want to get caught up in generalization, that's neither my intention nor does it belong to me to say that but it was very noticeable - and I think that is a good thing, it is - in a healthy dose - very empowering. And makes one live a happier life than an extra dollar would. (Please take/read with a grain of salt.)
What I want to say is, the minimum/ living wage discussion aside - and although I'm a firm believer that anyone working 8/9/10 hours a day must earn enough to make a living that is actually worth living, period. I can definitely see that people might be proud to work for Louis Vuitton, have a (highly?) stable job, and don't need a superb résumé to start - can even enroll without any prior experience, to be trained from scratch. I think that is a good thing and - depending on the person - might weigh way more than another dollar on top, that can still be made further down the road.
I fail to see any gross wrongdoing on LV(MH)'s part here. If there's one thing recent years taught me, it's stability/ dependability over (high) volatility for some quick extra bucks.
What I want to say: I'd rather work for 13$/hr plus benefits for LVMH, as for some crazy CEO promising "toast, and milk and honey" to go with a working class revolution at 25$/hr + benefits, only to be fired a couple of months down the road because the company ran out of money, needs to be bailed out, and the revolutionary CEO suddenly only has eyes for his pay out, cashing out and leaving the company in the hands of those who bailed it out. Cutting jobs, pay and benefits. (Resemblances of current events purely coincidental! Fictional story! Fictional data!)
Kind regards,
Oliver
I like high quality tools as I use them around the house, sometimes car, and backyard. Beside wanting highest quality tools possible, for a large part it's a purely/highly romanticized dream that got me into tools from US brand Snap-On.
Now Snap-On, like Louis Vuitton or better, LVMH, over time developed from a solely national manufacturer into something way more by buying other brands/manufacturers and overall globalization. Which brings me back to the point of heritage/signature products that I want to be Made in USA referring to Snap-On. Others come from Spain, Ireland, China - and I'm totally OK with that - as I know Snap-On backs this products, just as LV backs theirs.
Another hobby of mine are (handmade/ custom) knives. One of my early purchases was a Randall knife model #25. Randall knives are known world wide, if you want to buy one new from the factory you're de facto waiting for years before that order will be fulfilled - buying on the 2nd market fetches a hefty premium, not to speak of their vintage knives, sometimes fetching close to ridiculously insane prices. This brand lives of their heritage, fame & quality product: Made in Orlando, Florida - USA. Would they go the route that Snap-On and Louis Vuitton went, everything vintage/ neo-vintage Made in USA would increase in price, everything newer, then Made in *where ever", would need to be heavily discounted to be marketable. Not (necessarily) because of the quality of product, but because of buyers perception of the brand.
Louis Vuitton/LVMH chose this route and they are, very obviously, highly successful with it.
I do believe LV(MH) when they say they are aware of their social responsibility and act based on it/ base decisions on it. However, one can assume that such decisions are never purely based on altruistic motives.
And that is all I'm going to say, I guess we all read news.When it comes to working as an employee, some of you know I was employed in "big/ stock noted corporate world" for a rather short time, and I always refer to this as my "crazy vacation into employment". I feel safe to say that a very big factor is if an employee can actually identify with his/her employer. I've especially experienced this with my American friends & colleagues, as they basically introduced me to this as it is way, way less noticeable/common in Germany. It's also something that I miss dearly in Germany, the lack of being proud to be part of a company or group/trade. I really don't want to get caught up in generalization, that's neither my intention nor does it belong to me to say that but it was very noticeable - and I think that is a good thing, it is - in a healthy dose - very empowering. And makes one live a happier life than an extra dollar would. (Please take/read with a grain of salt.)
What I want to say is, the minimum/ living wage discussion aside - and although I'm a firm believer that anyone working 8/9/10 hours a day must earn enough to make a living that is actually worth living, period. I can definitely see that people might be proud to work for Louis Vuitton, have a (highly?) stable job, and don't need a superb résumé to start - can even enroll without any prior experience, to be trained from scratch. I think that is a good thing and - depending on the person - might weigh way more than another dollar on top, that can still be made further down the road.
I fail to see any gross wrongdoing on LV(MH)'s part here. If there's one thing recent years taught me, it's stability/ dependability over (high) volatility for some quick extra bucks.
What I want to say: I'd rather work for 13$/hr plus benefits for LVMH, as for some crazy CEO promising "toast, and milk and honey" to go with a working class revolution at 25$/hr + benefits, only to be fired a couple of months down the road because the company ran out of money, needs to be bailed out, and the revolutionary CEO suddenly only has eyes for his pay out, cashing out and leaving the company in the hands of those who bailed it out. Cutting jobs, pay and benefits. (Resemblances of current events purely coincidental! Fictional story! Fictional data!)
Kind regards,
Oliver
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Based on some of these comments I have to wonder if some of you have ever been in the workforce. Help me understand being *outraged* at LV but probably have no issues purchasing Nike, Forever 21, Victoria's Secret, etc., which are all corporations that we know use sweatshop labor and that pay is nothing compared to $13/hour.
Pretty much all craftspeople/artisan jobs require years sometimes decades of apprenticeship. I do think the salary is low but if they have a generous benefits package then that will more than offset the difference, especially since the cost of living in rural Texas is widely different than NYC, SF or Boston. French workers automatically get 4 weeks vacation out of the gate and if the Americans do then that's a great deal because we all know that two weeks is standard at entry level in most industries, if you are even classified as an employee instead of freelance. Additionally, LVMH as a company offers global mobility and frequently sends employees to other regions and countries to train. Some of these same Texas employees will definitely end up training in French workshops particularly if they specialize in leather or exotics. If your LV purchase is now a moral one then you should always shop small businesses. Thankfully we all have choices in where we should spend our money.
Pretty much all craftspeople/artisan jobs require years sometimes decades of apprenticeship. I do think the salary is low but if they have a generous benefits package then that will more than offset the difference, especially since the cost of living in rural Texas is widely different than NYC, SF or Boston. French workers automatically get 4 weeks vacation out of the gate and if the Americans do then that's a great deal because we all know that two weeks is standard at entry level in most industries, if you are even classified as an employee instead of freelance. Additionally, LVMH as a company offers global mobility and frequently sends employees to other regions and countries to train. Some of these same Texas employees will definitely end up training in French workshops particularly if they specialize in leather or exotics. If your LV purchase is now a moral one then you should always shop small businesses. Thankfully we all have choices in where we should spend our money.
I think for me it’s like someone said previously, I saw the sausage being made...but now I want to be snooty. I don’t want a French designed handbag from Texas. My Speedy was made in the USA but going forward I will likely avoid USA LV bags.
This is probably the most honest opinion I've seen in these past few pages, and I appreciate your honesty.
Others seem to just be giving out other "reasons" ($13/hr isn't a living wage, someone who isn't skilled can't be considered an artisan, etc.) though they're basically saying the same thing.
I also want to add that those who think the price of the item should be reflected by what people make... autoworkers don't make $100/hr for your car that costs $20k-$100k+, and construction workers don't make $200/hr for your house that costs $200k+.
And do you think the worker who made your computer/laptop that costs about the same as a LV bag makes $13/hr? Probably not.
And do you think the worker who made your computer/laptop that costs about the same as a LV bag makes $13/hr? Probably not.
Thank you! I’ve read throughout this thread and wanted to be clear in articulating my view without being critical of others.
I'm curious why people think these entry level jobs will lead to training to become true bag artisans? They are just going to be assembly line workers at the end of the day. No one is going to be making a Speedy or Neverfull from start to finish - that's inefficient which is the last thing a company wants. One person will probably be trained how to operate the machines that do the cutting of the patterns and another will be trained on how to sew the handles and another on how to assemble the body of the bag and so on. They will pick up sewing skills sure, and probably knowledge on how they bags are put together. But it's not like LV is over there offering trade school classes in leather working or design. I don't think LV is "investing" in anything here other than more output for more sales to meet demand. Whether it's in the US or in France or Spain, I doubt the process is any different.
it kind of sucks from the consumer point of view but I always kind of rolled my eyes when the SA's said the bags are handmade. Yea.... so are my shoes and cheap t-shirts from Forever 21.
it kind of sucks from the consumer point of view but I always kind of rolled my eyes when the SA's said the bags are handmade. Yea.... so are my shoes and cheap t-shirts from Forever 21.