Question about platinum (and some venting)

#16
Hi SuLi, not sure where you are in the metro area, but in Vienna there is an excellent independent store called the Platinum Doctor. He is wonderful to work with and honest too. Which is difficult to find in this area sometimes. He has worked on many of my platinum and 18kt pieces and I have been more than pleased with the results. Also his designed pieces are beautiful. Many of his customers are well known hi profile people in this area and he has been in this business for years.
 
#17
I'd also recommend, after you figure out what it going on, getting it polished. Platinum scratches very easily, and it is very inexpensive - often free - to get the platinum repolished. That might make a difference with the spot.

But that is really odd. I'm sorry you have to deal with that.
 
#18
hmm22 said:
Hi there, first time post, longtime lurker.

I am a professor here at UCLA, and a professional metalworker and solder artist here in California, and I have several suggestions as to what to do and how to test it.

Some times, actually most of the time, when soldering anything, jewelery, sculptures, etc, there are different grades of different metals (copper, polyABT, gold, plat, etc), and with platinum, it is 60% of time, not the only composite in the metal, for example, for wire or small grade smithing, there is a significant amount of hematite mixed in, because when the wire or lump is being pulled through the draw plate, it prevents the platinum from leaving residue on the plate, therefore preventing waste of the precious metal.

If you have a ring from a place like Tiffany & Co, Cartier, Harry Winston, or even Whiteflash, what you are paying for partially is the quality and purity of the metal that is in the piece you have bought, something that a lot of people forget. If you are buying from an independent artisan which is what I think you have implied, then you most likely have been given a ring "cured" (different from plating FYI) with another metal.

While what I have detailed may sound like a scan on the artisans part, she most likely didn't even realize that fact, unless she has a background in chemistry. If your ring was to be pure platinum, unless the stone is a pebble, which I have yet to see on this board, it would in no way have cost ball-park $10,000 dollars. Pure platinum is incredibly hard to obtain and deal if you are an independent artisan, only because of the rising prices of sterling, gold, most secondary precious metals.

May I suggest looking into the science or smithing departments at your local community college or university, and try to find an associate or student who is up to date on his metal grades? If you want, tell Private Message me with your location, and I can inquire with one of my colleagues as to who in that area could be of some assistance.

Sorry for the loquacious ramble,
Hannah
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Thanks for your input. It's interesting to read about the chemistry behind it.

I feel like I have to clarify something - I was not suggesting that the platinum setting itself cost $10,000; rather, the ring in total cost at that amount. I understand what you are trying to say, that pure platinum would cost more than that, and my understanding of something stamped "PLAT" is that it is 95% platinum, with 5% mixed metals, so I was not suggesting that my ring was "pure" platinum.

My main issue is, that in the two forums where I have posted this problem, and with the numerous jewelers I have spoken with over the last few days, the ring SHOULD NOT appear to "tarnish" - which is what the two spots resemble, especially for something so new. The other issue is, that if the ring was something other than the "PLAT", that perhaps it was gold and plated with something else, there is an ethical issue involved as the jeweler who made the ring did not tell us about it.

I am posting a picture to show the problem.



 

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#19
That to me looks like a copper-core sealing finally lifting, a sort of blemish that occured in a natural manner attributed to the copper sealant that was applied before final firing; or more so, a blemish in a marcasite setting, is there any possiblity that the setting is vintage, because that is identical in coloring (at least on my monitor,) to the demineralization of the white iron pyrite in vintage platinum. Vintage settings of a certain age have a lot of the sulfide FeS2, which "decays"; or can go through disintegration stages, the final of which is a white, brittle, powder.

I wasn't assuming that you were saying that the ring was pure platinum, I'm simply not convinced that the artisan would have access to any type of platinum that wouldn't require some sort of plating or sealant as described in previous posts.
-Hannah
 
#20
hmm22 said:
That to me looks like a copper-core sealing finally lifting, a sort of blemish that occured in a natural manner attributed to the copper sealant that was applied before final firing; or more so, a blemish in a marcasite setting, is there any possiblity that the setting is vintage, because that is identical in coloring (at least on my monitor,) to the demineralization of the white iron pyrite in vintage platinum. Vintage settings of a certain age have a lot of the sulfide FeS2, which "decays"; or can go through disintegration stages, the final of which is a white, brittle, powder.

I wasn't assuming that you were saying that the ring was pure platinum, I'm simply not convinced that the artisan would have access to any type of platinum that wouldn't require some sort of plating or sealant as described in previous posts.
-Hannah
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Thanks again for everyone's input.

I will check out the Platinum Doctor weisone. I will PM you for more information if that is possible.

Also, I'm posting a response on I got on Pricescope...does that sounds plausible to anyone:

"I believe that I may have an answer for you.
There may have been small particles of steel trapped under the diamonds from the drill or bur used to create the seats for the diamonds. Sometimes, the tiny blades of the burs wear down or break off and lodge themselves in the holes, and aren't noticed by the setter. These small particles will rust when the ring gets wet, and the rust will plate itsself onto the surrounding metal.
The steel, and the stains, can be removed by soaking the ring in sulfuric acid. The acid will not hartm the platinum or the stones. A jeweller will have to do that for you. Polishing and cleaning alone will not get to the source of the problem.

Alternatively, there may have been solder used in the repair of incompletely cast claws in the micropave.
Platinum solders contains very little platinum, and can yellow in the same way that other solders do. I doubt that is the problem, as, if the ring was rhodium plated, the plating wouldn't fail in a recessed area so quickly."

Thanks again!
 
#21
From an organic chemistry POV, that sounds good to me. The micro ridges found in most metals are capable of holding the smallest traces of any element causing discoloration as you have experienced. However, depending on the color grade of the rhodium plating, it could plausibly fail in the time period you have experienced. Most metals actually have a comparable grading scale to diamonds, and rhodium plating is no exception, I cold only imagine if she were to use some used exclusively for rhodium flashing that it would be sustainable for the longest amount of time. While rhodium is expensive, there are different storage grades, some which are actually used in fine automobile making or framing.
-Hannah
 
#22
First, congratulations on your engagement :yahoo: . Second, your ring is truly beautiful.:yes:

Third, as someone whose OCD flares to a 12 on a point 10 scale when it comes to my jewelry, I feel your pain. I don't have any suggestions about how or why this happened, I just wantedo let you know that if it were me, I'd be looking for that jewelers home address :cursing: . Anyway, words of comfort--this will resolve it self, and most likely soon. Till then, we're here for moral support.

c.
 
#24
Total bummer and I hope it works out for you.

As a jewelry designer, this is one of many reasons why I avoid working with platinum. I just don't know enough about it and would have no way to get enough of the materials to learn.

hmm22...you SHOULD post more! :smile: Stop lurking silly. I love learning new things about metals and things like this.
 
#25
that is what happens to white gold, the white rubs off and it has to be redipped sometimes, but even that wouldnt happen that fast. Something funny is definitely going on, I would definitely have it independently appraised.
 
#26
hmm22 said:
From an organic chemistry POV, that sounds good to me. The micro ridges found in most metals are capable of holding the smallest traces of any element causing discoloration as you have experienced. However, depending on the color grade of the rhodium plating, it could plausibly fail in the time period you have experienced. Most metals actually have a comparable grading scale to diamonds, and rhodium plating is no exception, I cold only imagine if she were to use some used exclusively for rhodium flashing that it would be sustainable for the longest amount of time. While rhodium is expensive, there are different storage grades, some which are actually used in fine automobile making or framing.
-Hannah
Click to expand...


hmm22, you should post more often on this forum! I'm fascinated by the structure of metals and gems; we need an expert view every now and then.

I have not seen the same issue in my platinum band, but rhodium was bonded (?) on the 14K wg prongs that hold my e-ring stone, after several years of hard wear, it has started to have a yellowish look.
 
#27
Just on sugarbella's earlier post there ^ sometimes platinum is coated with Rhodium which is just puts a gleam finish back on the metal - it is however a temporary thing as it does tend to wear off with daily use.
Both my engagement and wedding rings are plat and they are the very same as when I got them. I'm so sorry you have a concern with your ring - its very upsetting for you - I hope you will have the matter resolved to your satisfaction. Keep us posted Kisses xxxxx
 
#28
I just remembered...my husband's wedding band is platinum (not sure how I forgot this yesterday...must've been tired).

He beats it to all heck but it's never discolored. It scratches up but we take it back to the dealer and they 'redip' it and it polishes up like brand new. It's never gotten any off colors before though.

Now, when I still had my wedding ring, it would discolor but it was 14k gold and when I went a long time without getting it dipped it would look a little yellow. But not obvious spots that you're seeing.

Hope this all works out for you. Keep us updated. :smile:
 
#29
Thanks for all the words of encouragement. Here's an update:

The ring designer wrote back...she has no idea why the micro pave part of the setting was yellowing. She reiterated that the ring was completely platinum, including the fillings. She recommended that I get the ring ultrasonically cleaned, and if the spots are still there, to bring it back to her to fix.

I took the ring to Charleston Alexander in VA and this is what happened: The technician used the ultrasonic cleaner to try and clean the ring. When the ring came out, those spots were still there. She then tried scrubbing the halo, but again, the spots were still there.
She then examined the ring with a loop, and noted that it looked like some sort of "gold" was used to solder parts of the ring. In her opinion, she said it was possible that soldering was needed AFTER the little diamonds were set. She explained to me that once diamonds are set, you should not use platinum to solder as it could damage the diamonds, so she thinks that some sort of gold (yellow maybe) was used to solder.
She said that we could have it re-plated with rhodium, but that the yellowing was likely to happen again, and we'd have to continually replate it. The other option she suggested was that we get the ring reset completely. Either way, she said that this kind of yellowing should not happen so soon.

I also contacted an independent appraiser in the DC area. She took one look at the picture I took of the spots and immediately said that gold was used to solder.

So, my FI and I e-mailed the ring designer and we're waiting back on what she says.
 
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