I get what you're saying but I don't know any Coach customers who aren't aware of their pricing structure (though I'm sure there are a few). If their pricing structure were in fact illegal I'm sure action would have been taken long ago. To me it's more of an "annoyance" issue when customers find out they could have had the same item for a lesser price.
Wow. Now *that* is overlap
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I get what you're saying but I don't know any Coach customers who aren't aware of their pricing structure (though I'm sure there are a few). If their pricing structure were in fact illegal I'm sure action would have been taken long ago. To me it's more of an "annoyance" issue when customers find out they could have had the same item for a lesser price.
They look slightly different to me. The color is deeper and the shape is a little rounder on the pricier one. More than likely the quality of the leather is different. They are both cute slg.
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I didn't say it's illegal; I said it's a grey area and Coach clearly uses the different model numbers on identical products as insurance it stays on the right side of the law. That doesn't make it a clean business practice.
I get what you're saying that buyers need to beware and practice due diligence, but I think we on this forum know better than most people how much ignorance there is among the general consumer base. These practices exploit those weaknesses and are insulting to the loyal customer base.
And TBH, I am a new customer to Coach and I find all of this boutique vs. outlet vs. how to gain access to outlet sales, etc. etc. etc. to be extremely opaque. So I think there are LOTS of folks who wouldn't be aware or would find it very difficult to educate themselves on the "tricks" we know to get the best deal.
I get what you're saying that buyers need to beware and practice due diligence, but I think we on this forum know better than most people how much ignorance there is among the general consumer base. These practices exploit those weaknesses and are insulting to the loyal customer base.
And TBH, I am a new customer to Coach and I find all of this boutique vs. outlet vs. how to gain access to outlet sales, etc. etc. etc. to be extremely opaque. So I think there are LOTS of folks who wouldn't be aware or would find it very difficult to educate themselves on the "tricks" we know to get the best deal.
Well I disagree strongly that their practices "exploit weaknesses and are insulting the the loyal customer base". Those that are loyal to Coach already know their pricing structures, those that don't have the ability (as we all do) to due their homework before purchasing.
Coach doesn't need to 'baby' it's customers, they can make informed choices all on their own.
We can agree to disagree on this subject......I guess if felt as strongly as you re: their pricing I wouldn't purchase from them at all. But I merely see it as fair market trade and let the buyer beware.
Yeah, the pebbled sea glass leather certainly feels the same to me, between mff and boutique.
I have both the mff Bennett and the boutique Crosstown in my bedroom right now, and just manhandled them again (my that sounds kinky). Both are the "pebbled sea-glass leather", and there's no more difference between their leathers, or the color/shade, than you'd find in, say, two identical bags sitting next to each other on a store shelf. I know that sounds surprising, but I'm not lying, I promise. No more difference than you'd feel if you'd go into a store and manhandle, say, two pebbled Bleecker Sullivans in the same color. I know the shades look different in the pictures, but I think that's lighting. The angle of the pictures are also a little different too, which affects both reflectivity and silhouette. But in person ... I just can't see any differences in the leathers.
Now the edge-paint, *that* might be a difference on these two wristlets ... that I can't be positive of.
The edgepaint on my mff Bennett and boutique Crosstown are the same dark, almost olive green color. I say that having both in person in my lap. Same edgepaint on both the mff bag and the boutique bag. On the wristlet pictures, the edgepaint *does* indeed look darker on the mff. Maybe they ran out of the dark olive (
).
I just find it very interesting, because it's so much like what happened with the very first, very short-lived round of mff Zoes. They too, in certain colors, were identical to the their boutique counterparts. I remember picking out my boutique-delete patent petrol Zoe from a stack of identical mff patent petrols ... literally mixed in together. Same leather, same hardware, same satin, same stitiching, same everything. Only difference was the creed. ...... I'm used to things like the tell-tale changes between Swagger and Blake (as just one example), but this is one of those "blink-and-you'll-never-catch-a-difference" cases.
I have both the mff Bennett and the boutique Crosstown in my bedroom right now, and just manhandled them again (my that sounds kinky). Both are the "pebbled sea-glass leather", and there's no more difference between their leathers, or the color/shade, than you'd find in, say, two identical bags sitting next to each other on a store shelf. I know that sounds surprising, but I'm not lying, I promise. No more difference than you'd feel if you'd go into a store and manhandle, say, two pebbled Bleecker Sullivans in the same color. I know the shades look different in the pictures, but I think that's lighting. The angle of the pictures are also a little different too, which affects both reflectivity and silhouette. But in person ... I just can't see any differences in the leathers.
Now the edge-paint, *that* might be a difference on these two wristlets ... that I can't be positive of.
The edgepaint on my mff Bennett and boutique Crosstown are the same dark, almost olive green color. I say that having both in person in my lap. Same edgepaint on both the mff bag and the boutique bag. On the wristlet pictures, the edgepaint *does* indeed look darker on the mff. Maybe they ran out of the dark olive (
).I just find it very interesting, because it's so much like what happened with the very first, very short-lived round of mff Zoes. They too, in certain colors, were identical to the their boutique counterparts. I remember picking out my boutique-delete patent petrol Zoe from a stack of identical mff patent petrols ... literally mixed in together. Same leather, same hardware, same satin, same stitiching, same everything. Only difference was the creed. ...... I'm used to things like the tell-tale changes between Swagger and Blake (as just one example), but this is one of those "blink-and-you'll-never-catch-a-difference" cases.
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I seem to remember that a long time ago a retailer got into trouble for always having everything on sale. It was considered deceptive if items were never sold at full price. That's when retailers took to changing the price tags to say "compare to.." MFF items never sell at the price indicated on the price tags, yet there is no indication in the outlets that this is the case.
Usually when Coach copies themselves, like with the current MFF Carlyle, they wait awhile before they release the MFF version. Having both FP and MFF that are identical or nearly is much worse. Whether or not it is legal, it is deceptive. I don't agree that consumers should be expected to know when they are getting scammed.
But in the case of your Zoe, both were at the outlet at the same time, priced the same. At least the FP version wasn't still selling in FP stores while identical copies were selling at the outlet. There were times recently when the same item was at the outlet at 50% off and on SAS at 30%.Yeah, the pebbled sea glass leather certainly feels the same to me, between mff and boutique.
I have both the mff Bennett and the boutique Crosstown in my bedroom right now, and just manhandled them again (my that sounds kinky). Both are the "pebbled sea-glass leather", and there's no more difference between their leathers, or the color/shade, than you'd find in, say, two identical bags sitting next to each other on a store shelf. I know that sounds surprising, but I'm not lying, I promise. No more difference than you'd feel if you'd go into a store and manhandle, say, two pebbled Bleecker Sullivans in the same color. I know the shades look different in the pictures, but I think that's lighting. The angle of the pictures are also a little different too, which affects both reflectivity and silhouette. But in person ... I just can't see any differences in the leathers.
Now the edge-paint, *that* might be a difference on these two wristlets ... that I can't be positive of.
The edgepaint on my mff Bennett and boutique Crosstown are the same dark, almost olive green color. I say that having both in person in my lap. Same edgepaint on both the mff bag and the boutique bag. On the wristlet pictures, the edgepaint *does* indeed look darker on the mff. Maybe they ran out of the dark olive (
I just find it very interesting, because it's so much like what happened with the very first, very short-lived round of mff Zoes. They too, in certain colors, were identical to the their boutique counterparts. I remember picking out my boutique-delete patent petrol Zoe from a stack of identical mff patent petrols ... literally mixed in together. Same leather, same hardware, same satin, same stitiching, same everything. Only difference was the creed. ...... I'm used to things like the tell-tale changes between Swagger and Blake (as just one example), but this is one of those "blink-and-you'll-never-catch-a-difference" cases.
OTOH, there were times when I bought shoes from the shoe sale on Coach.com and was allowed to use a PCE, making them cheaper than the same shoes on FOS.
Of course. I don't have any ax to grind. I'm just calling it out for what it actually is based on my pretty deep understanding of fair business practice protocol. I manage multiple distribution channels and product groups for an international Fortune 50 company so I'm very well versed on the laws and on how corporations can operate in the margins of legality. I have "strong feelings" about it only insomuch as it's extremely important to me personally to engage with complete ethical cleanliness during the course of normal business and when making strategic marketing decisions on behalf of the business units I represent.
That said, the retail world is a different animal and federal law enforcement agencies make their own strategic decisions on which elephants to hunt and which ones to ignore. I can't begin to speculate about that and clearly Coach under the direction of its own legal department protects itself in many ways via carefully planted technicalities. Surely the outlet business is incorporated separately from the boutique business which adds a layer of protection as well.
Knowing that this is all a giant machine, I'm not going to allow that to stop me from purchasing an item I love. If I were the sort to stand on principle I would have to go off the grid, weave my clothing out of homegrown hemp and eat only those things I could grow myself. That's not how I want to live. I'll go ahead and buy a bag even from a company whose practices I judge to be a bit shady if I like it well enough.
We're just kicking tires here, right?
Yes indeed. They were.
I do agree ... I find many of Coach's games to be a bit shadey (this one included). :-/ I've often wondered if they sit there taking bets on how long they can fool their customers. I long thought it would be a matter of time before more people caught on ... but ... maybe not.
I think that, despite evidence to the contrary, they think they have two types of customers: FP and MFF. They don't admit that many shop in both places. They assume that FP customers aren't motivated by price, at least not as a first consideration.Yes indeed. They were.
I do agree ... I find many of Coach's games to be a bit shadey (this one included). :-/ I've often wondered if they sit there taking bets on how long they can fool their customers. I long thought it would be a matter of time before more people caught on ... but ... maybe not.
I noticed this morning when I got on FOS that there was a MFF hangtag bottle opener very similar to the FP one I just ordered with PCE. I'm not even mad; I think the extra clip (I have my fishing line ready lol) and monogramming are worth the after PCE price difference. I was just a little surprised to see such a similarity between their FOS and FP key rings. I haven't been around here nearly as long as some of you, but I don't remember seeing such similar key rings before.
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Yes, great post and I do agree with you. There's only so much we can worry about and the rest of it is out of our control. Consumers can always vote with their wallets.Of course. I don't have any ax to grind. I'm just calling it out for what it actually is based on my pretty deep understanding of fair business practice protocol. I manage multiple distribution channels and product groups for an international Fortune 50 company so I'm very well versed on the laws and on how corporations can operate in the margins of legality. I have "strong feelings" about it only insomuch as it's extremely important to me personally to engage with complete ethical cleanliness during the course of normal business and when making strategic marketing decisions on behalf of the business units I represent.
That said, the retail world is a different animal and federal law enforcement agencies make their own strategic decisions on which elephants to hunt and which ones to ignore. I can't begin to speculate about that and clearly Coach under the direction of its own legal department protects itself in many ways via carefully planted technicalities. Surely the outlet business is incorporated separately from the boutique business which adds a layer of protection as well.
Knowing that this is all a giant machine, I'm not going to allow that to stop me from purchasing an item I love. If I were the sort to stand on principle I would have to go off the grid, weave my clothing out of homegrown hemp and eat only those things I could grow myself. That's not how I want to live. I'll go ahead and buy a bag even from a company whose practices I judge to be a bit shady if I like it well enough.
We're just kicking tires here, right?
This exactly. Oh well. They're maximizing profits. I get that and I am every bit the blue blood capitalist 'MURican. So normally I don't have big issues with corporations taking profits. I just think it's a bit deceptive and disrespectful to do it the way Coach sometimes does it, i.e., selling an identical product in two different channels at radically different price points during the same time frame and trying to pass them off as different model numbers in an effort to fool the FP customers into thinking the lesser priced product is not the same product. SMH.