VCA ~ Van Cleef Arpels Discussion thread!

TPF may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, and others

I was given the opportunity from my SA to get the pink sapphire Frivole earrings and pendant set, but now I'm thinking about the pink sapphire/pave butterfly earrings or ring instead?? Can money grow on trees so we can just get everything on our wishlists??
She did say I would need to special order the ring as I have large fingers (size 61), so I wouldn't necessarily be able to try it on beforehand. She said they rarely get sizes >55 in the store. Opinions?!! :panic:

I think it depends how much you like pink. To me the combo of the metal, pink sapphire right by diamonds and I’m not sure what else makes the Frivole a really vibrant and, with apologies to those who have and love it, garish look that doesn’t, for me, go with the simple elegance of frivole. I passed on a set a while back.

OTOH, the butterflies are pretty subtle and don’t look like a bright pink except in certain lights, which I know is weird as same stone.

I think the butterfly set is more everyday usable (for me) but that depends on your preference and style. They also dress up nicely I think, though I haven’t dressed up in ages.

I can’t remember if you’re able to try both but if you are of course that’s the way to go. I always vote to get plain frivole then use the savings to do pave w the butterflies!
 
Hi!
Currently my collection includes:
-Vintage MOP earrings
-Lucky Butterfly necklace
-Guilloche pendant necklace
-Grey MOP pendant necklace
-Blue Agate bracelet

I was thinking about adding:
-Sweet 16 motif rose gold long necklace
Or
-Vintage onyx earrings & vintage onyx pendant necklace

What are your thoughts on these 2 choices? eventually I would like both options, but really can only pick one.

Thank you! :heart:
 
Hi!
Currently my collection includes:
-Vintage MOP earrings
-Lucky Butterfly necklace
-Guilloche pendant necklace
-Grey MOP pendant necklace
-Blue Agate bracelet

I was thinking about adding:
-Sweet 16 motif rose gold long necklace
Or
-Vintage onyx earrings & vintage onyx pendant necklace

What are your thoughts on these 2 choices? eventually I would like both options, but really can only pick one.

Thank you! :heart:
That’s a tough choice! I love the idea of getting the set of onyx earrings and pendant together but the 16 motif is such an elegant and understated piece, I am leaning more towards that.

Have you tried all these pieces at the store? I find it super helpful to try things on my WL multiple times at the store, take lots of pics and then torture my friends with pics until I make up my mind :biggrin:

The 16 motif is one of the hardest pieces to get right now so if you love it and your store is able to get it for you, you should grab it.
 
I'm not sure I'll really do it, but I am thinking about paring down my collection a little. I track cost per wear only inexactly and wondered if anyone whose mentioned doing it keeps closer track. I am also struggling a little with how to do it *now*, since I'm still not going out like I used to. Does a day worn at home count as a wear? I also wonder sometimes about it as I will often put on a few pieces and just wear them for like a week straight -- seven wears? Even if I was just too lazy to change it and might have rather worn something else?

For now to the extent I'm considering selling anything it's because I'm also doing a bag reorg (which I find much easier to think about, ID gaps in collection) so I'll probably be getting quotes etc anyway, and because of a bad experience I had with some chalcedony pieces earlier this winter. It's so hard because I think chalcedony really is the most beautiful stone, but I find it does not suit me at all. Luckily I didn't go for the amazing chalcedony 20 so even if I rarely wear it ppw isn't much, but otoh it feels silly to hold onto anything I feel "off" or out of sorts wearing. I might as well put that $ toward pieces I would wear or bags to fill the collection or art I have my eye on.

Anyway, any tips on how those of you who are more methodical do it would be much appreciated! Thank yoU!
 
I'm not sure I'll really do it, but I am thinking about paring down my collection a little. I track cost per wear only inexactly and wondered if anyone whose mentioned doing it keeps closer track. I am also struggling a little with how to do it *now*, since I'm still not going out like I used to. Does a day worn at home count as a wear? I also wonder sometimes about it as I will often put on a few pieces and just wear them for like a week straight -- seven wears? Even if I was just too lazy to change it and might have rather worn something else?

For now to the extent I'm considering selling anything it's because I'm also doing a bag reorg (which I find much easier to think about, ID gaps in collection) so I'll probably be getting quotes etc anyway, and because of a bad experience I had with some chalcedony pieces earlier this winter. It's so hard because I think chalcedony really is the most beautiful stone, but I find it does not suit me at all. Luckily I didn't go for the amazing chalcedony 20 so even if I rarely wear it ppw isn't much, but otoh it feels silly to hold onto anything I feel "off" or out of sorts wearing. I might as well put that $ toward pieces I would wear or bags to fill the collection or art I have my eye on.

Anyway, any tips on how those of you who are more methodical do it would be much appreciated! Thank yoU!

It seems like you’re now having second thoughts about items in your collection that don’t spark as much joy as before, and if you don’t like the feeling of clutter I would definitely consider parting with pieces that you don’t love anymore.

Personally I wear jewelry for myself and I even love wearing them around at home so I can enjoy looking at them, and so that counts as cost per wear for me. I love how jewelry makes me feel when I wear them. Of course dressing up to go out is also way more fun when you have coordinated outfits but what I love about jewelry is that you can wear them anytime and especially in the comfort and safety of your own home.

I don’t know if you foresee going to more events in the future but I think it’s always great to have the classics in case you do, and think about which pieces you love most and which pieces are the most versatile. If a piece is difficult to coordinate with the rest of your collection or outfits and it doesn’t spark immense joy I would let it go, because it probably means you won’t ever wear it. But if a piece is very unique and more difficult to match but you love that piece because it makes you feel amazing when you wear it, I would keep it!

I think the Marie Kondo method is amazing for decluttering; you put out all the pieces in your collection in front of you and you can see which ones you still truly love and which ones you feel just meh about. When they’re all laid out in front of you you can also do a mental coordination to see which pieces go well together with the outfits you wear. At the end of the day material things like jewelry should bring you joy, not burden and stress so I think that’s a good starting point when considering which pieces you should keep. You should feel happy about having/wearing them and not “off/out of sorts” like you mentioned. Good luck!!
 
I'm not sure I'll really do it, but I am thinking about paring down my collection a little. I track cost per wear only inexactly and wondered if anyone whose mentioned doing it keeps closer track. I am also struggling a little with how to do it *now*, since I'm still not going out like I used to. Does a day worn at home count as a wear? I also wonder sometimes about it as I will often put on a few pieces and just wear them for like a week straight -- seven wears? Even if I was just too lazy to change it and might have rather worn something else?

For now to the extent I'm considering selling anything it's because I'm also doing a bag reorg (which I find much easier to think about, ID gaps in collection) so I'll probably be getting quotes etc anyway, and because of a bad experience I had with some chalcedony pieces earlier this winter. It's so hard because I think chalcedony really is the most beautiful stone, but I find it does not suit me at all. Luckily I didn't go for the amazing chalcedony 20 so even if I rarely wear it ppw isn't much, but otoh it feels silly to hold onto anything I feel "off" or out of sorts wearing. I might as well put that $ toward pieces I would wear or bags to fill the collection or art I have my eye on.

Anyway, any tips on how those of you who are more methodical do it would be much appreciated! Thank yoU!
When I was clearing out my bags a few years back I tried tracking how much I wore each. But it did not tell me anything I did not already know about which bag I use more. So I tried instead to not use my most used bags and just force using the others. I found that worked to force why I no longer liked bag x or why bag y did not work even though I was trying to use for when I thought I would use it. I then knew exactly which bags to sell and I did. I have bags I only use once or twice a year (my clutches), that I may use more later but either way I love them and have no interesting in selling even if cost per wear is not ideal.
I did similar exercise with clothes too where I moved my clothes out of mine and only brought back in once I wore items. I only picked items from the clothes not in my closet. I had to do it by season but it quickly became obvious which pieces had to go into donation bin. I will likely do this again once I go back to working in office.
Long post way of saying that I would suggest trying this with your jewellery. Try only wearing the pieces you don’t wear a lot now and see how you feel about them.You might not wear cause your clothes don’t work with the pieces. I recently bought some dresses to go with my lucky butterfly earrings so I could wear lots this summer. Or you might not love the piece and it is time to sell. Hope this helps.
 
I was given the opportunity from my SA to get the pink sapphire Frivole earrings and pendant set, but now I'm thinking about the pink sapphire/pave butterfly earrings or ring instead?? Can money grow on trees so we can just get everything on our wishlists??
She did say I would need to special order the ring as I have large fingers (size 61), so I wouldn't necessarily be able to try it on beforehand. She said they rarely get sizes >55 in the store. Opinions?!! :panic:
I would ask yourself why all of a sudden you want a butterfly piece. Have you always loved butterfly, or are you now caught in the hype of all this talk of butterflies? If you have always loved Frivole and the pink sapphire set, I would get your first love.

Both the Frivole pink sapphire and butterfly pink sapphire have been out for a while, so I would ask yourself why didn't you want the butterfly a few months ago before VCA started doing all this marketing on the butterfly collection?

To me, the two collections are very different. The Frivole is a flower collection and timeless. The BTF is a nice bold look.
The butterfly is sweet and dainty compared to the Frivole ring. Each collection projects a different look, and everyone has a fashion look. I would select the one that reflects you, your look. I would not purchase the butterfly if you are now interested due to all the hype.

Hope that helps!
 
I'm not sure I'll really do it, but I am thinking about paring down my collection a little. I track cost per wear only inexactly and wondered if anyone whose mentioned doing it keeps closer track. I am also struggling a little with how to do it *now*, since I'm still not going out like I used to. Does a day worn at home count as a wear? I also wonder sometimes about it as I will often put on a few pieces and just wear them for like a week straight -- seven wears? Even if I was just too lazy to change it and might have rather worn something else?

For now to the extent I'm considering selling anything it's because I'm also doing a bag reorg (which I find much easier to think about, ID gaps in collection) so I'll probably be getting quotes etc anyway, and because of a bad experience I had with some chalcedony pieces earlier this winter. It's so hard because I think chalcedony really is the most beautiful stone, but I find it does not suit me at all. Luckily I didn't go for the amazing chalcedony 20 so even if I rarely wear it ppw isn't much, but otoh it feels silly to hold onto anything I feel "off" or out of sorts wearing. I might as well put that $ toward pieces I would wear or bags to fill the collection or art I have my eye on.

Anyway, any tips on how those of you who are more methodical do it would be much appreciated! Thank yoU!
When it comes to clothes, kitchen items and things around the house, I do a thorough ‘spring’ cleaning every 3-4 months (every drawer, every cupboard, every nook and cranny gets a sweep) and I use the rule of thumb that ‘if I haven’t worn or used the item even once in a year or more, that item or piece of clothing needs to be donated’. Period, no second thoughts, no regrets. By consistently doing this, I am at a point where I honestly have very little stuff in my house and closets. I won’t lie I could pair down my clothes even more but I honestly use everything I own at this moment because I just did the re-haul a couple of weeks. So I am enjoying my zen moment shedding all the extra weight:biggrin:.. when I get into one of those decluttering moods, there’s no stopping me to the point hubby often jokes ‘I am useful, don’t donate me!’:giggle:

With bags and blings it’s a little different and more tricky for me in deciding what goes and what stays but here’s what’s worked for me:
1. I make a conscious choice to rotate all my jewelry. Yes, there will be some pieces that I automatically reach for more and that’s okay so long as I am giving fair attention to the rest of the pieces in my collection.
2.When I was working from home, I started wearing my bling more often on zoom meetings. So yes, wearing the jewelry at home absolutely counts towards getting that CPW down. Now that I am back at face-to-face work, I still find myself reaching out for my jewelry pieces everyday. The only caveat is that once I am back home, I have to, absolutely have to, take off all my jewelry except my e-ring. I am in my zen mood at home in my old sweats and t-shirt, sans jewelry:biggrin:
3. I don’t manually count or keep a spreadsheet tracking how often I am wearing each of my pieces, but I do keep a mental approximate count where I am like ‘okay the malachite pendant has been used too much this month. Need to see which other pendant needs to be shown more love’
4. If each of the pieces in my collection sparks that joy in me as @tenshix mentioned, it stays in my collection. I am not getting rid of things just to reduce numbers for the sake of it. Instead, if it sparks joy in me, I am going to consciously ensure I wear that piece more often.
5. I don’t like clutter so I always wanted a ‘manageable’ collection of bags and blings. Manageable to me is if I can do justice to the piece, rotate them easily and wear them out. Then, I am content with what I have. If I start feeling that I am not doing justice to what I own, that’s when I am ready to ruthlessly trim my collection. I have done it with bags and I won’t hesitate to do it with jewelry. Let’s hope it never comes to that:girlsigh:
 
Hi!
Currently my collection includes:
-Vintage MOP earrings
-Lucky Butterfly necklace
-Guilloche pendant necklace
-Grey MOP pendant necklace
-Blue Agate bracelet

I was thinking about adding:
-Sweet 16 motif rose gold long necklace
Or
-Vintage onyx earrings & vintage onyx pendant necklace

What are your thoughts on these 2 choices? eventually I would like both options, but really can only pick one.

Thank you! :heart:
Hi! I think you need to try on the Sweet 16. If you have and like it, I would get that as it's different than yet another pendant.
As FYI, I tried on the Sweet 16 and found it very dainty. To me, it looked like a long metal chain, not really impactful. You may also want to try on a VA 20 motif. I think the 20 motif makes much more of a statement. However, you may be seeking a daintier look which the Sweet 16 will give you that. If you like the 20 motif, I would get the MOP 20.. it would be beautiful with your earrings!

Good luck!
 
I'm not sure I'll really do it, but I am thinking about paring down my collection a little. I track cost per wear only inexactly and wondered if anyone whose mentioned doing it keeps closer track. I am also struggling a little with how to do it *now*, since I'm still not going out like I used to. Does a day worn at home count as a wear? I also wonder sometimes about it as I will often put on a few pieces and just wear them for like a week straight -- seven wears? Even if I was just too lazy to change it and might have rather worn something else?

For now to the extent I'm considering selling anything it's because I'm also doing a bag reorg (which I find much easier to think about, ID gaps in collection) so I'll probably be getting quotes etc anyway, and because of a bad experience I had with some chalcedony pieces earlier this winter. It's so hard because I think chalcedony really is the most beautiful stone, but I find it does not suit me at all. Luckily I didn't go for the amazing chalcedony 20 so even if I rarely wear it ppw isn't much, but otoh it feels silly to hold onto anything I feel "off" or out of sorts wearing. I might as well put that $ toward pieces I would wear or bags to fill the collection or art I have my eye on.

Anyway, any tips on how those of you who are more methodical do it would be much appreciated! Thank yoU!
Hi! I don't know your lifestyle or background so I may be off base. However, from reading your posts, my gut is you may have purchased some jewelry pieces because of hype or other influence, but you don't really love the pieces. I say this because you mentioned earlier you have pieces you don't wear or had a bad experience. You also posted above you don't wear jewelry as you are not going out as much and don't feel compelled to rotate pieces regularly.

Here's a thought...
Perhaps jewelry is not really your thing and somehow you got caught up into feeling you needed to buy jewelry.
Jewelry is not everyone's thing. For me, I love fine gemstones and jewelry. I fly to gem exhibitions to see the collections and gemstones, so it really is my thing. CPW does not matter for me as I buy jewelry for me to wear and stare at. My husband said it best when he said jewelry is my hobby that I love. On the contrary, I have a friend who could not give a poop about jewelry. She has zero interest in jewelry and thinks it's a complete waste of money. She spends on other things.

Maybe you have higher priorities and jewelry is no longer your thing. That's perfectly fine as we all change as we move through life.

One final thought... could TPF be influencing you? TPF is a dual-edge sword. There are lots of great friendly people on TPF sharing their love for VCA and helping each other out. Yet if one is not careful, it is easy to get caught up in the hype and keep wanting to collect VCA, just for the sake of collecting and dare I say, a keeping up with the Jones mentality.

If you think you might be at a turning point toward jewelry, maybe take a break from TPF for a bit. See if you forget about VCA and become interested in other things. Or, you may miss VCA and your TPF buddies so much, you can't wait to come back and buy a new piece of bling! I do think staying off TPF for a little while will help to give you clearer insight as to your priorities and what you truly love and want to focus on.

I hope sharing these thoughts were a bit helpful. Good luck to you!
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure I'll really do it, but I am thinking about paring down my collection a little. I track cost per wear only inexactly and wondered if anyone whose mentioned doing it keeps closer track. I am also struggling a little with how to do it *now*, since I'm still not going out like I used to. Does a day worn at home count as a wear? I also wonder sometimes about it as I will often put on a few pieces and just wear them for like a week straight -- seven wears? Even if I was just too lazy to change it and might have rather worn something else?

For now to the extent I'm considering selling anything it's because I'm also doing a bag reorg (which I find much easier to think about, ID gaps in collection) so I'll probably be getting quotes etc anyway, and because of a bad experience I had with some chalcedony pieces earlier this winter. It's so hard because I think chalcedony really is the most beautiful stone, but I find it does not suit me at all. Luckily I didn't go for the amazing chalcedony 20 so even if I rarely wear it ppw isn't much, but otoh it feels silly to hold onto anything I feel "off" or out of sorts wearing. I might as well put that $ toward pieces I would wear or bags to fill the collection or art I have my eye on.

Anyway, any tips on how those of you who are more methodical do it would be much appreciated! Thank yoU!
Last year I purged a lot of my VCA collection. The pieces fell into two categories; 1) things I bought because it was the newest, latest, most difficult to get and which I had to have--but were duplicative, such as another alhambra necklace in a different stone and 2) pieces I outgrew.

As to the first category, I felt stupid and guilty for falling into the "had to have it," trap (what @BigAkoya writes about) but the only way to escape that was to look forward, not back. As to the second, I had beautiful, wonderful things that were TDF, but they weren't me anymore. I loved them, had worn them a lot, but had zero interest in wearing them further. It was time to let them go. All were better off being rehomed.

I didn't invest the money. I didn't save the money. I bought less but better.

I am very happy with my collection. It is pared down and everything is wearable. Nothing is saved for a special occasion; I'll wear butterfly pave earrings and pearls to the market. Why? Because I want to. Because it looks nice with a white shirt and jeans and because they spark joy. I also think that fine jewelry can be worn casually. It's all about attitude. And I wear it. Everyday as everyday is an opportunity to wear jewelry.

Finally, if I can be completely honest, there are some things that I wear very seldom that I will not part with. Once in a while I try them on and realize they're wonderful. My inclination is to reach for a newer piece rather than an older one. Eventually I'll rotate back. But I'm also very aware that if I were to sell those pieces (never mind cost-per-wear), they'd be gone forever and I would regret it.

So my recommendation is to sort, and edit carefully. Put something aside and ask yourself if you were to part with it, how you would feel? How would you feel if your best friend showed up wearing the identical item you just sold or if the Duchess of Windsor was photographed wearing "your" necklace? Would you be having kittens and keeping yourself up at night? It costs nothing to keep these things, but there may well be a psychic price if you ruthlessly Kondoize your jewelry collection.

Remember, if you have second thoughts, you can always sell the piece later and if we're talking about VCA, you'll probably get more for it tomorrow than you will today. So sort, deliberate and put aside.

Also, @lynne_ross suggested that you try wearing the things you're thinking about selling and then think how they make you feel. It's a good idea.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi! I don't know your lifestyle or background so I may be off base. However, from reading your posts, my gut is you may have purchased some jewelry pieces because of hype or other influence, but you don't really love the pieces. I say this because you mentioned earlier you have pieces you don't wear or had a bad experience. You also posted above you don't wear jewelry as you are not going out as much and don't feel compelled to rotate pieces regularly.

Here's a thought...
Perhaps jewelry is not really your thing and somehow you got caught up into feeling you needed to buy jewelry.
Jewelry is not everyone's thing. For me, I love fine gemstones and jewelry. I fly to gem exhibitions to see the collections and gemstones, so it really is my thing. CPW does not matter for me as I buy jewelry for me to wear and stare at. My husband said it best when he said jewelry is my hobby that I love. On the contrary, I have a friend who could not give a poop about jewelry. She has zero interest in jewelry and thinks it's a complete waste of money. She spends on other things.

Maybe you have higher priorities and jewelry is no longer your thing. That's perfectly fine as we all change as we move through life.

One final thought... could TPF be influencing you? TPF is a dual-edge sword. There are lots of great friendly people on TPF sharing their love for VCA and helping each other out. Yet if one is not careful, it is easy to get caught up in the hype and keep wanting to collect VCA, just for the sake of collecting and dare I say, a keeping up with the Jones mentality.

If you think you might be at a turning point toward jewelry, maybe take a break from TPF for a bit. See if you forget about VCA and become interested in other things. Or, you may miss VCA and your TPF buddies so much, you can't wait to come back and buy a new piece of bling! I do think staying off TPF for a little while will help to give you clearer insight as to your priorities and what you truly love and want to focus on.

I hope sharing these thoughts were a bit helpful. Good luck to you!

Thank you. This was very interesting and there’s a lot to think over. One thing I should mention is that I don’t buy or pick most of my jewelry myself. I love jewelry, but it has never been exactly my thing. My DH has always bought it as gifts and surprises, even back in the Stone Age when we were just dating, so I don’t think I got caught up in hype, and doubt he did. He’s even less into social media than I am! I do love jewelry, but despite the time I’ve been spending on tpf, I don’t obsess or study it the way I do art and some antiques. It is DH’s thing and it is beautiful. So it is something we share and that he finds more engaging than my other interests. Maybe I should find a way to get him more engaged with those, or I can keep enjoying his habit :)

Oddly, the pieces I’m thinking of selling are some of the few I picked myself that I thought were beautiful but just don’t work on me. Some were bought during the pandemic didn’t really have a chance to wear out and about often. When I did wear them I felt off and like they were unflattering. The one incident that sticks in my mind was one of my first outings after omicron and all of my style choices felt off, probably because I also felt a little old in the downtown hip place we went to and I dressed like a matronly uptown type, which I basically am, although still adjusting to the age. I think DH would feel sad if I sold them, but I was also interested to learn that is something people do and that they have a metric for it. It seemed interesting.

I do see what you mean about the double edged sword of TPF. I joined a looong time ago and was mostly active in the Balenciaga forum, which is what I was into then. I did step away from that because I was just buying way too much and worse as a way of coping with or actually avoiding a hard personal situation and TPF was definitely enabling that, very kindly and in a fun way! I’m not sure if it is on jewelry or not since I’m not the main customer.

It’s interesting that my not rotating pieces reads as lack of interest. I’m going to think about this. I had interpreted it as because I am a middle aged old style European and also sometimes wear the same clothes a few days in a row, especially when I only wear for a short time. This is much more the case now, but was also before the pandemic. So no need to change the jewelry either. Sorry if this is TMI!

Thank you for the thoughtful and thought provoking post and apologies for my long response. Lots to think about
 
Thank you. This was very interesting and there’s a lot to think over. One thing I should mention is that I don’t buy or pick most of my jewelry myself. I love jewelry, but it has never been exactly my thing. My DH has always bought it as gifts and surprises, even back in the Stone Age when we were just dating, so I don’t think I got caught up in hype, and doubt he did. He’s even less into social media than I am! I do love jewelry, but despite the time I’ve been spending on tpf, I don’t obsess or study it the way I do art and some antiques. It is DH’s thing and it is beautiful. So it is something we share and that he finds more engaging than my other interests. Maybe I should find a way to get him more engaged with those, or I can keep enjoying his habit :smile:

Oddly, the pieces I’m thinking of selling are some of the few I picked myself that I thought were beautiful but just don’t work on me. Some were bought during the pandemic didn’t really have a chance to wear out and about often. When I did wear them I felt off and like they were unflattering. The one incident that sticks in my mind was one of my first outings after omicron and all of my style choices felt off, probably because I also felt a little old in the downtown hip place we went to and I dressed like a matronly uptown type, which I basically am, although still adjusting to the age. I think DH would feel sad if I sold them, but I was also interested to learn that is something people do and that they have a metric for it. It seemed interesting.

I do see what you mean about the double edged sword of TPF. I joined a looong time ago and was mostly active in the Balenciaga forum, which is what I was into then. I did step away from that because I was just buying way too much and worse as a way of coping with or actually avoiding a hard personal situation and TPF was definitely enabling that, very kindly and in a fun way! I’m not sure if it is on jewelry or not since I’m not the main customer.

It’s interesting that my not rotating pieces reads as lack of interest. I’m going to think about this. I had interpreted it as because I am a middle aged old style European and also sometimes wear the same clothes a few days in a row, especially when I only wear for a short time. This is much more the case now, but was also before the pandemic. So no need to change the jewelry either. Sorry if this is TMI!

Thank you for the thoughtful and thought provoking post and apologies for my long response. Lots to think about
Please don't apologize. Thank you for sharing. Your experience mirrors in many ways my lifestyle as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DeryaHm
Top