You're welcome! If I had $250k for next year, I'd probably get the Lotus BTF ring, small Lotus earrings, and 2 of the 5 motive full pave bracelets to stack ($109,100 before tax). Then I'd go to Hermes and try to buy enough household items, shoes, and RTW to get a quota bag. Other VCA that I can only dream about: perlee clover items, Liane necklace, etc. I think I could spend $250k a year on luxuries for several years without getting bored!
VCA ~ Van Cleef Arpels Discussion thread!
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Stoned by Aja Raden is an interesting book. It talks more about stones than jewellery specifically but why certain ones were more valuable at various times etc. Its historical, so not advice on what to buy per se.
This is so gorgeous, congratsHi all!
Thank you so much for contributing to this valuable thread! I have learned a great deal from all of you!
(And some of you I know from other threads)
At first, I was so confused reading here. I couldn’t figure out what all the letters and numbers meantBut now I’ve got it!
So, I reference your thoughts quite often and ended up purchasing my very first VCA piece in late June. The beautiful blue agate 5 motif bracelet!
And almost exactly two months later, in late September, I was offered the 10 motif necklace! The BA in the two pieces is essentially a perfect match. I’m not sure if this is the “recent batch” @BigAkoya and her SA were referring to, but these came within the last 4 months.
I Lovethis blue! If you’re considering BA, I highly recommend you go for it! The color is a beautiful, deeper shade of blue and the stones are clear.
Thanks again and hope this helps!
Additional pieces and pics to follow. As you all warned, VCA is a slippery slope!
I guess what I was trying to say is it's a lot of money. Maybe I should donate to schools more for bigger impacts than just a bling?
If donating more money to schools would make you happier than buying jewelry, definitely donate the money! I'm sure the schools would appreciate it
If I may kindly offer some thoughts here.. I think what mocktail meant was 5% is what she is personally comfortable with spending on luxury goods for her family’s enjoyment without trying to ensure she gets financial return from that amount, and for a lot of people the number can change over time based on their personal lifestyle and priorities so the number/percent is flexible to your own needs.
I think it’s very thoughtful of you that you are thinking for your boys in terms of resale value for your items later on, and you expressed your wish to instead donate extra funds to schools rather than spend it on luxury goods. This is very noble and kind, and if charity work makes you more happy than spending on yourself then you know where your heart lies!
Spending on luxury goods is such a personal thing just like your own style, I don’t believe there is a right or wrong answer (besides spending so much you end up in debt or can’t afford to pay for basic needs). I totally agree with @mocktail that spending on most luxury goods is thought of as non-essential, and for most of my items I don’t expect the same/appreciating financial value back. I simply buy it because I love it and want to enjoy it in my lifetime. I do the same when I gift for others; I don’t think about whether they can resell this for more later. I buy it for them because I think they will love it and can enjoy it in the “now”.
If by spending on something expensive for yourself you feel guilty because you feel like you’re taking away from your sons’ futures.. Personally I don’t think you should feel guilty for having worked hard and buying yourself something that makes you happy. Your sons are likely going to be successful with stable careers later on in their life that your personal collection probably won’t make it or break it for them in the long term. But if it truly bothers you I feel like you can go off of your feelings and what you would be comfortable with not getting financial return back (eg. Like mocktail said, a nice vacation, but the real value is in the lovely experience and time you had with your family which is worth the dollar value you spent).
I don’t think your sons would judge you after you have passed to be like “Wow, Mom was really selfish. She spent money on all these things for herself instead of for us.” I think they would understand these are the things that brought you joy and they may attach themselves to a couple pieces or items that reminded them of you and keep it themselves/give those pieces to their partner to keep the memory of you living on. Everything else is just extra and I should think they would be grateful.
It seems like you’re very sensible with your finances already. If spending $50k on a piece you absolutely love is within your budget of money you’re ok with not seeing returns on and your family lifestyle and basic needs won’t be impacted by this decision, I say it’s your right to decide for yourself if it’s worth it.
Hi! You have already received a lot of great input, and here is mine.
Jewelry is an expense, and I always look at it as sunk cost. It is the same as a vacation, the money is lost. I also do not think of passing things down when I purchase as kids these days value other things more such as experiences and not so much material goods. I would not purchase items for resale value; I would purchase items because you love it. Resale value, passing things down... to me those are all marketing themes to help us justify cost. For me, I treat all luxury purchased as a pure expense.
On how much to spend, that is a personal decision. For me, first and foremost, I think one should get the retirement savings in order before spending on big splurge items. My financial advisor has told me on several occasions, he is shocked by what he sees in some of his clients. There are some who have a large income, yet they live paycheck to paycheck with minimal savings and buy big luxury items. As they say, you cannot judge a book by its cover. If a person is at a point in their lives where they have enough for retirement, I think buying big bling with the "excess" money is absolutely worth it. To me, big bling is like a big vacation. You have worked hard, now is the time to enjoy the fruits of your labor. It sounds like you have done that. So, no regrets, if you have the cash, buy it because you love it. You sound sensible, so your gut will tell you when you have spent enough for the year as each year will vary. I think once you have your retirement set, there really is no limit to what you do with your excess dollars.
On how much savings one needs for retirement? The tried and true formula is one can live off 4% savings and have the base last a lifetime. Using that model, for $1M in savings, that will yield $40,000 a year. If one has $10M in savings, that will yield $400,000 a year.
You also mentioned donations which I completely agree with. There is a lot of personal joy in donating, whether it be something as simple as used clothing to larger cash donations for institutions. If we can brighten a person's day or contribute to helping a larger cause, I find a lot of happiness in that.
By the way, I think there is confusion on spending a percent of your total net worth vs spending percent of your total annual income which is a big difference. Spending on bling to me, should be based on a percent of your income, not net worth. The whole idea in saving is to preserve your base and grow it, not spend it down.
Examples:
- If your total savings is $5M and using the 4% rule to generate income to live off that $5M, your "income" off that $5M is $200K annually. This income includes all your living expenses. You should assess what percent of that $200K annual income you can spend toward luxury spending.
- However, if your total savings is $5M and you plan to spend 5% of that for luxury goods, that is $250K annually. But what about living expenses? You need to withdraw money on top of that 5% bling money for living. Let's say you need another 4%, so that's a total of 9% now that you will withdraw annually. 9% is not safe. The market is going gang busters recently, but in times of a recession (and it will happen as the market is cyclic), there could be a 10-15% or more drop and pulling 9% on top of that drop is a lot of withdrawal.
The general rule I like to live by is I never spend down that base (e.g. the $5M in the examples above). And part of that rule is to withdraw 4% annually so you can outlive that base. Hence in the example, it is living off the $200K annual income and buying bling against that.
Hope that helps, but I do want to clarify spending 5% to buy bling off your assets is very different than spending 5% to buy bling off your annual income. I am sure you already know that, but just in case.
I hope that made sense. Of course, if you have assets to allow you to spend $250K annually on bling alone, the 4% general rule will not apply to you.
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I have 1 girl and 2 boys and I bet they sell most of my stuff when I pass or give it to other relatives that will enjoy the pieces. The idea that items stay in the family is unrealistic in my opinion. I do hope that they keep and pass down the extremely sentimental pieces, though what is sentimental to me might not be sentimental to them.
Otherwise, I agree with what the other posters have said. Jewellery to me is just ‘stuff’, discretionary spending. No different than a couch, vacation, a car, donations, etc. The better benchmark to pay attention to is your accumulated savings in real estate, stocks, cash vs. Your financial goals. How you spend your money is up to your own comfort level and circumstances.
This is just my opinion as you will find people who do count jewellery as part of their asset base.
Totally agree with you. I like and have a lot of old world classics... crystal, china, mahogany furniture. Kids hate this stuff! So kids not wanting our stuff is not limited to jewelry... it's everything! Kids these days would rather have cash for an experience or get brand new furniture at Ikea. Forgot old world classics. Lasting a lifetime and passing down to the next generation was created by marketing.
Well said, and I vote ring! You can see your rings, and you can enjoy them which is why I love rings.I don't think I qualify as "older and wiser" as someone in my mid-30's who is new to fine jewelry. But I'll share anyway
In my opinion, jewelry and other luxury items should be thought of like any other non-essential items (fancy dinners, expensive trips, etc ). You're spending money on something you don't need because you enjoy that thing/experience and it makes you happy. If you want an investment (meaning a financial return on your money), put the money in stocks or index funds.
The amount of money you spend on jewelry each year should be an amount that can be completely "lost" without impacting your short term or long term financial goals (monthly bills, saving for retirement, investing, charitable giving, etc.).
If you want to leave a certain amount of money for your sons after you die, do that without considering the potential resale value of your luxury items. We have no way of knowing what will or won't be valued in the future.
Personally, I'm trying to limit my luxury spending to about 5% of my yearly earnings. My husband makes more than I do, though, so my luxury budget is less than 3% of our combined annual earnings. We could "lose" that amount and be OK.
Re: VCA, I was thinking about a necklace for next year but now I think I'll go for the Socrate BTF ring. It won't retain its value as much as an Alhambra piece would, but as long as I enjoy it that's all that matters. I don't wear any of the necklaces I have and I'm not sure if it's because I don't like wearing necklaces or I just don't have any that I love. But I do wear rings so that seems like a better plan - buy something I know I'll wear!
Hi! If the Lotus ring is on your list, I would skip Socrates. Socrates is nice, but it's a bit girly and demure due to tiny size flowers, at least to me. Lotus packs a nice punch, and it can be worn casual or dressy. I do not think you will outgrow Lotus while you may outgrow Socrates. After the ring, you can then get the earrings! Planning is half the fun.
