tPF authenticator discussion

[missbanff]

Moderator note:
This is a rough thread start as it is posts pulled from an existing thread where this discussion was off topic. . . .

Unless I am mistaken (no snark, I couldn't definitively find this listed in the readme) ATLV is a free service for shoppers before they actually purchase a bag. A4U is a paid service which people seem to mostly use after making a purchase to verify (or in the case of a dispute, invalidate) the authenticity of a bag currently in their possession. It is often much easier to get quality pictures of the necessary details when the item is in your possession rather than asking a third party to take said photos and rely on their photography skills. A4U is also different, even when dealing with presale items, in that it is a paid service and thus the customer has motivation to provide the necessary details since they have to pay first and thus have something on the line in the transaction. I would personally assume that when someone has skin in the game, be it the $7 or the questionable item in their possession, they would be more motivated to provide the items which are required to reach a successful outcome. Perhaps I am giving human beings too much credit, but as we all can agree, simple, quick communication would go a long way toward fixing this issue, if it is even an issue at all.

No snark taken.

First bolded point: again, based on years of experience here, I wholeheartedly disagree. In fact, it is often worse when someone who has no motivation (such as presale authentication where money is being paid for listing fees, etc. We in the ATLV don't authenticate for sellers) to figure out the right photos. As I'm sure you read in the ATLV rules, we do require a sales link, which may or may not have all the proper photos. Many times people will include their own photos once the item arrives, if photos are missing from the listing. For a large percentage of folks, this is an incredibly difficult task, especially on a PHONE. It is nearly impossible to get a close enough photo on a phone of the often small details we need to see, and it is becoming more and more important as I mentioned before about superfakes being more and more prevalent. Or, important details are left out and we need to ask over and over for them (some folks new to the brand don't even know what a 'heat stamp' is - I'm not knocking them, we all had to learn once) - but it does take time to go back and forth asking for and supplying the proper information.

Even folks who have chosen not to read the rules and just supply us with photos for authentication with no sales link (which we can't comment on) - the photos are abysmal. Like JAG said - shadows and improper lighting can do odd things to a detail we need to see - and that's assuming it is clear and close up. I either case, I think people expect us ("us" meaning paid authenticators like A4U/Enticeler OR volunteer authenticators like any of the AT forums here) to be miracle workers with superman vision and the patience of Mother Theresa.

Second bolded point:

You are correct. Agree with you completely.

 

[Prada Psycho]

Seriously? What am I "assuming"? I have helped in the ATLV for years, so yes, I can tell you that about 1% of people supply a complete set of clear, close photos, which also applies to ebay and/or other resale site listings. And the follow up to requests for better photos is dismal. So I believe I can speak with some authority, with no "assumptions". EDITED TO ADD: and the problem is getting worse, with people thinking that their damn phone is a proper camera. It's not. Superfakes are flooding the secondary market across ALL brands and it is imperative that we get the right photos. Hell - we have a whole page in the ATLV devoted to the rules of the thread and 99.999% of people don't bother to read it, and if we're REALLY lucky, get pissy with us when we direct them to said rules.

Speaking as one of the war weary mostly retired Prada Authenticators here: BRAVO!!

You complainers here have NO idea what we have to put up with and how little thanks we get. :true:

 

[storeberry]

Speaking as one of the war weary mostly retired Prada Authenticators here: BRAVO!!

You complainers here have NO idea what we have to put up with and how little thanks we get. :true:

So true. Which is why so many authenticators quit. Human takes advantage of free services & demanding their right for "Free" service. What's more with a $7 paid service?

 

[zippie]

Speaking as one of the war weary mostly retired Prada Authenticators here: BRAVO!!

You complainers here have NO idea what we have to put up with and how little thanks we get. :true:

I see it every day in the Chanel, Hermes, Prada or LV threads. Long time experienced authenticators have left because of the lack of appreciation and entitlement. Now some that have very little experience and few posts have started authenticating. It's sad to see this happening and knowledgeable, helpful authenticators gone.

 

[missbanff]

:

Speaking as one of the war weary mostly retired Prada Authenticators here: BRAVO!!

You complainers here have NO idea what we have to put up with and how little thanks we get. :true:

Thank ya.

So, let me ask you PP, in your opinion as a very experienced authenticator:

Can you see it being ANY different for a paid service, in terms of supplying a complete, correct set of photos?

Because I think that's the argument here - that those using a paid service would do better than what we get here.

I'm not a betting woman per se, but I would bet a whole crapload of money that they do NOT, in fact, get better photos. It's the nature of the beast.

Crappy photos = slower turn around and possibly slow communication as I imagine they get as fed up as we do - but NOT an excuse for LACK of communication.

 

[missbanff]

I see it every day in the Chanel, Hermes, Prada or LV threads. Long time experienced authenticators have left because of the lack of appreciation and entitlement. Now some that have very little experience and few posts have started authenticating. It's sad to see this happening and knowledgeable, helpful authenticators gone.

I myself am on a break for that same reason.

People with no business authenticating come along and starting spouting their opinions with imcomplete and/or horrible photos and get TOTALLY *****Y when we ask them to be careful. And the mods or admins do nothing about it because 'they should be able to give an opinion' - Good Lord..........

Ain't got time fo dat.

 

[JustAgUrL]

I myself am on a break for that same reason.

People with no business authenticating come along and starting spouting their opinions with imcomplete and/or horrible photos and get TOTALLY *****Y when we ask them to be careful. And the mods or admins do nothing about it because 'they should be able to give an opinion' - Good Lord..........

Ain't got time fo dat.

Ohhhh MY GOD!!!! Now, that is downright scary….

I have tried to help with a few Prada and Jimmy Choo….

But, I will ONLY give my opinion, if I am 100% sure….

But, to have new people just deciding that they should start opining on authenticity,
that is NOT GOOD at all…..

 

[Prada Psycho]

Thank ya.

So, let me ask you PP, in your opinion as a very experienced authenticator:

Can you see it being ANY different for a paid service, in terms of supplying a complete, correct set of photos?

Because I think that's the argument here - that those using a paid service would do better than what we get here.

I'm not a betting woman per se, but I would bet a whole crapload of money that they do NOT, in fact, get better photos. It's the nature of the beast.

Crappy photos = slower turn around and possibly slow communication as I imagine they get as fed up as we do - but NOT an excuse for LACK of communication.

Truthfully? The biggest difference to me would be that I would HOPE that people paying a fee for authentications would make certain they do provide good photos for the service. If crappy pictures are posted here, the authenticators are free to scroll on past those posts without comment and we do that more often than not. Provide those same crappy photos to a paid service and you're not going to get a definitive answer to your "$7.00" question. If someone is concerned enough to engage a paid authentication service, then they should want to give the service what's needed.

I don't disagree about the communication issue. That's a huge pet peeve of mine also, but I wanted to address the free vs. paid question.

 

[BeenBurned]

I see it every day in the Chanel, Hermes, Prada or LV threads. Long time experienced authenticators have left because of the lack of appreciation and entitlement. Now some that have very little experience and few posts have started authenticating. It's sad to see this happening and knowledgeable, helpful authenticators gone.

I'd like tol add my 2-cents worth.

I think there are rude and entitled posters across the board. The differences I see on the brands i authenticate vs. the brands you've been discussing (Prada, Chanel) is in the mod/admin for that subforum. If the subforum has a mod who lets the authenticators take the lead and set the tone, everyone is a lot happier.

Some mods (who don't authenticate) allow their authenticators to set the pace so to speak. They allow the authenicators to apply their own guidelines, the authenticators can comment on seller histories, feedback, selling practices, etc.

With that freedom to post semi-OT discussions, the subforum is a lot friendlier, easy going and educational but rarely leads to the frustration and departure of authenticators as I've personally witnessed on other subforums.

When a mod isn't an authenticator, it's hard for them to understand and see things through the eyes of an authenticator. They view it as "rude" when an authenticator calls out a non-expert on an inaccurate opinion. They don't get why we ask for what we need to see and aren't fully aware of the amount of money involved (both to buyers and sellers), damages to reputations and the damage misinformation can cause when allowed to be posted unabated.

It comes as no surprise to non-authenticators that NOT anyone can step in an provide good accurate information. Authenticators have years of experience buying, selling, studying, fondling, carrying their items and they have electronic libraries with thousands of images. They have word documents up the wazoo with notes on exceptions to rules, date codes, factory codes, years that certain items were made, fonts, etc.

One can not just log in to TPF and start as an authenticator and give accurate information.

If TPF admin want to keep their knowledgeable experts and continue to have a reputation that members can get accurate information re authenticity, those unpaid volunteers need to be appreciated for the time and expertise they provide.

 

[anitalilac]

No snark taken.

First bolded point: again, based on years of experience here, I wholeheartedly disagree. In fact, it is often worse when someone who has no motivation (such as presale authentication where money is being paid for listing fees, etc. We in the ATLV don't authenticate for sellers) to figure out the right photos. As I'm sure you read in the ATLV rules, we do require a sales link, which may or may not have all the proper photos. Many times people will include their own photos once the item arrives, if photos are missing from the listing. For a large percentage of folks, this is an incredibly difficult task, especially on a PHONE. It is nearly impossible to get a close enough photo on a phone of the often small details we need to see, and it is becoming more and more important as I mentioned before about superfakes being more and more prevalent. Or, important details are left out and we need to ask over and over for them (some folks new to the brand don't even know what a 'heat stamp' is - I'm not knocking them, we all had to learn once) - but it does take time to go back and forth asking for and supplying the proper information.

Even folks who have chosen not to read the rules and just supply us with photos for authentication with no sales link (which we can't comment on) - the photos are abysmal. Like JAG said - shadows and improper lighting can do odd things to a detail we need to see - and that's assuming it is clear and close up. I either case, I think people expect us ("us" meaning paid authenticators like A4U/Enticeler OR volunteer authenticators like any of the AT forums here) to be miracle workers with superman vision and the patience of Mother Theresa.

Second bolded point:

You are correct. Agree with you completely.

I see new members joining and just demanding free authentication and not following the formats and I always thought, there are formats to follow ..it won't take long to read...and our wonderful Authenticators patiently repeats the rule...You guys are angels!

 

[jellyv]

One can not just log in to TPF and start as an authenticator and give accurate information.

BUT unfortunately, nearly anyone can hop onto TPF and on their Day 1 or Day 5 start authenticating (well, presuming to authenticate), in some forums. This is really a godawful situation, for obvious reasons of potentially really messing up a member's buying experience (or a seller's reputation, and the respected authenticators' willingness to hang in there). Sometimes, these members will both post items to be authenticated for them and in the next post weigh in on authenticity for someone else. Not cool.

Getting OT a bit, sorry.

 

[missbanff]

I'd like tol add my 2-cents worth.

One can not just log in to TPF and start as an authenticator and give accurate information.QUOTE]

Oh - but according to some real winners we've had in the ATLV as of late - they can.

"Just because I am new to the forum does not mean I am new to the brand"........GMAFB

 

[BeenBurned]

One can not just log in to TPF and start as an authenticator and give accurate information.

BUT unfortunately, nearly anyone can hop onto TPF and on their Day 1 or Day 5 start authenticating (well, presuming to authenticate), in some forums. This is really a godawful situation, for obvious reasons of potentially really messing up a member's buying experience (or a seller's reputation, and the respected authenticators' willingness to hang in there). Sometimes, these members will both post items to be authenticated for them and in the next post weigh in on authenticity for someone else. Not cool.

Getting OT a bit, sorry.

Oh - but according to some real winners we've had in the ATLV as of late - they can.

"Just because I am new to the forum does not mean I am new to the brand"........GMAFB

LOL! What I meant is it's not easy to find good authenticators and it shouldn't be expected that one can jump in and start.

Yeah, sure they CAN, but they aren't going to be accurate, they aren't going to be expert and they aren't going to be helpful, no matter how good their intentions.

 

[JustAgUrL]

BUT unfortunately, nearly anyone can hop onto TPF and on their Day 1 or Day 5 start authenticating (well, presuming to authenticate), in some forums. This is really a godawful situation, for obvious reasons of potentially really messing up a member's buying experience. Sometimes, these members will both post items to be authenticated for them and in the next post weigh in on authenticity for someone else. Not cool.

Getting OT a bit, sorry.

I have seen this happen a few times, then it dawned on me,
it was a language barrier… I've PM'ed a few people who have done this
and explained to them that participating on the forum does not mean authenticating, that it means posting on other threads…

BTW… in NO way am I blaming the authenticators…
it is not at all their fault at all…. it is just what can happen
when you have people from ALL over the world with different language
backgrounds posting on an english speaking site…

 

[jellyv]

BB: I understood this part: "...and give accurate information." Very true, but chutzpah gets free rein on some TPF Auth threads, and this only dramatizes how valuable expert authentication is.