Maintaining an H relationship

[papertiger]

Please focus on the title of this thread rather than each other, TY

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For advice on how to shop at your local store please do a search in Hermes Shopping sub-forum and look for your store/region/country.

 

[haute okole]

Just to play devil's advocate, maybe your sa is tired of you asking/checking in and is just as frustrated as you.

Also edited to add: maybe your sa knows your so is coming in this year, so that would be your 2nd qb.

Yes, SAs are human too. SAs have confided in us that they actually have nightmares about bag requests and contemplate quitting because of the incessant demands. It does one no favors to lack patience AND spend.

 

[Tykhe]

This experience isn’t really that out of the ordinary. My sa has said something was coming in the next two months and it took more like a year. This happens a lot if you accept non quota bags in the meantime because it will delay the offer. So, pretty much I never believe any sort of timeline until I actually see the product. It doesn’t bother me. This is just part of the quirks of the brand. You live and you learn. Also, for the most part I think they select for clients who are easy going and won’t complain.

 

[880]

My old SA once said to me a few years ago that he didn’t think a jpg Kelly pochette would be that difficult an ask (based on his past experience). I remember thinking then that he really is not all that aware/ or really naive of post covid reality or the politics of the leather dept.

And yes, like @haute okole , he has nightmares too. My new SA once responded with an emoticon to a text at a late hour, (I send a quick thank you confirmation re deliveries) and I told her when I next saw her that she might need to rethink work life balance.

 

[Veritybelle]

As @880 so well points out,

This isn't personal. How to allocate bags or any scarce desirable product is a business decision.
An SA or SM likely doesn't have the time, bandwidth or energy for personal grips with clients,
but they do have to adhere to the everchanging corp policy.

Shopping at H takes much patience. Simply said.
If SA's could go into a backroom & produce bags to satisfy all these demanding clients they
likely would because the requests & constant hammering of where is my bag, is overwhelming.

These various threads have provided insight & most of them at some point discuss "patience
& not entitlement", JMO

Well said. There’s no secret.

 

[Capitaliste]

Thank you for additional inputs from @Veritybelle , @Love Of My Life , and @Tykhe.

Just to play devil's advocate, maybe your sa is tired of you asking/checking in and is just as frustrated as you.

Also edited to add: maybe your sa knows your so is coming in this year, so that would be your 2nd qb.

I also appreciate your comment. But, I doubt if she is tired of me checking in about the bag. (She is a texter, so she usually sends some texts to me even before I initiate it. And I attended one of the private events recently that my SA invited me; She said that she could only invite 4 of her clients and I was one of them. So, I hope she is not as frustrated as I am.)


I have responded to everyone' posts regarding my inquiry, and I really appreciate your perspectives/suggestions. (If ones did not get my responses, that means they are ignored/blocked in my list and I don't see their posts unless I have to click "show ignored content," but I wouldn't bother about these. I initially thought that they cannot see my posts anymore, but I guess they can...?) Anyway, I hope everyone has a great weekend!

 

[textilegirl]

This experience isn’t really that out of the ordinary. My sa has said something was coming in the next two months and it took more like a year. This happens a lot if you accept non quota bags in the meantime because it will delay the offer. So, pretty much I never believe any sort of timeline until I actually see the product. It doesn’t bother me. This is just part of the quirks of the brand. You live and you learn. Also, for the most part I think they select for clients who are easy going and won’t complain.

This might also be at play in this situation; even if they aren’t considered ‘quota bags’ I get the sense that Hermes is trying to spread the bag happiness around. Even an Evelyne tpm will make some client happy so the thinking might be to spread that joy around and not prioritize clients who’ve gotten a few bags already. Of course there may be different rules for different levels of spend and commitment. We say this all the time and it seems to still be true.

 

[Building_profile]

Not a Madison shopper here, but is it really true that the Kelly 42 and the Kelly messenger just simply don’t count? I mean, respectfully, even if I have $20k spend and a picotin and an Evelyn in between, I’d feel like I’m stretching my timeline a bit, especially if there’s also a SO on the way. I feel like anything with a “kelly” in the name will still count somewhat mentally as a big give to me - forget the usual 1 or 2 qb/yr firefight.

 

[880]

Not a Madison shopper here, but is it really true that the Kelly 42 and the Kelly messenger just simply don’t count? I mean, respectfully, even if I have $20k spend and a picotin and an Evelyn in between, I’d feel like I’m stretching my timeline a bit, especially if there’s also a SO on the way. I feel like anything with a “kelly” in the name will still count somewhat mentally as a big give to me - forget the usual 1 or 2 qb/yr firefight.

I don’t think I ever said that they don’t count; but I can only go by what my SA says; namely, that if they have a larger bag, they will sell it bc, even for newer models, the demand isn’t there for larger sizes. Hermes is desperately trying to move the customer back to bigger bags, and it has been trying for a few years now. Anecdotally, some members have reported walking in and asking for a B35 and getting one.

But, the catch is, that even a large Maison like Madison or BH does not want to waste their inventory dollars on bags that aren’t as popular. So they do not order many big bags. initially, I believe there was a shortage of the new bags. For example, a manager told me that when the hac a dos first came out, madison had a wait list of 40 people but the first tranche was only three bags. In that situation, it simply doesn’t matter how VIP you are; if it’s not there, you have to wait.

With Hermes restricting the amt of total bags produced and with the heightened demand, I can well imagine that if a client is ‘satisfied’ with a Kelly messenger, even a larger one, that an SA will mentally move that person back so another client who doesn’t have any bag can get one. And so forth.

I always suggest instead of relying on one particular POV on TPF, first rely on your SA to give you the most relevant advice to your particular situation. Then use TPF as a collective group to figure out how things may or may not apply to your own circumstances.

 

[blushnbellinlvoe]

Not a Madison shopper here, but is it really true that the Kelly 42 and the Kelly messenger just simply don’t count? I mean, respectfully, even if I have $20k spend and a picotin and an Evelyn in between, I’d feel like I’m stretching my timeline a bit, especially if there’s also a SO on the way. I feel like anything with a “kelly” in the name will still count somewhat mentally as a big give to me - forget the usual 1 or 2 qb/yr firefight.

I don’t think I ever said that they don’t count; but I can only go by what my SA says; namely, that if they have a larger bag, they will sell it bc, even for newer models, the demand isn’t there for larger sizes. Hermes is desperately trying to move the customer back to bigger bags, and it has been trying for a few years now. Anecdotally, some members have reported walking in and asking for a B35 and getting one.

But, the catch is, that even a large Maison like Madison or BH does not want to waste their inventory dollars on bags that aren’t as popular. So they do not order many big bags. initially, I believe there was a shortage of the new bags. For example, a manager told me that when the hac a dos first came out, madison had a wait list of 40 people but the first tranche was only three bags. In that situation, it simply doesn’t matter how VIP you are; if it’s not there, you have to wait.

With Hermes restricting the amt of total bags produced and with the heightened demand, I can well imagine that if a client is ‘satisfied’ with a Kelly messenger, even a larger one, that an SA will mentally move that person back so another client who doesn’t have any bag can get one. And so forth.

I always suggest instead of relying on one particular POV on TPF, first rely on your SA to give you the most relevant advice to your particular situation. Then use TPF as a collective group to figure out how things may or may not apply to your own circumstances.

I agree with @880 re larger bags. Also pertaining to one’s own personal relationship with their SA.

I was a visitor to Madison this spring and expressed interest in the K42 as a walk-in. I am female 5’4, slight/athletic build, and the SA that helped tried to turn my attention to a k32/28 as it was lighter and more proportionate for my frame as a daily wear bag per him. But after learning the purpose of the bag was for short work trips or weekenders he changed his tune. He even said it would have been perfect for my current business trip. Mind you there was no outright offers as I didn’t say outright that I wanted one on the spot but I felt like he was actively trying to sell me the bag and I am pretty good at reading in-between the lines. He made it a point to say that he has many clients that are out-of-towers that travel to Madison specifically and actively encouraged me to come back knowing full well I have a home store in another state as well as in another country. He spent a good amount of time showing the different leather offerings on display -all of his own volition. I didn’t ask him to. Anyways, I only bought rtw and shoes on that visit. I told both of my other SAs about my trip to Madison and they seemed genuinely excited and not at all offended that I potentially’cheated’ on them haha. Anyways, everyone has to embark on their own journeys and experiences. Just wanted to share mine. I think I maintain my core SA relationships enough that the occasional dallying here and there is certainly not gonna be frowned upon. Now, if I had less history and less spend, and a specific qb goal in mind, then I might consider my shopping patterns differently. In general as in any relationship, I am honest, transparent and respectful. I don’t play games and have realistic expectations given this current economic environment. And I spend regularly. I think SAs, being humans themselves, reciprocate accordingly. JMHO/YMMV

 

[blushnbellinlvoe]

Yes. I got the first and only QB [i.e., Birkin 30] in early November 2023 from my home store (and in the US). So, I counted my current pre-spend amount since mid-November of 2023 (before taxes), excluding 2 other non-QBs. She said that if I cannot get a B35 by mid-November, she would still offer a B25 (for my sister). She said that MK and B25/K25 are easier than B35, and I can get it "easily" instead of B35 if I want to. [ETA: What my SA is telling me is somewhat contradictory from what I read from this Forum.]

Also, I was originally very specific that I want a black Birkin 35 w/ palladium hardware regardless of leather types. (Then, I expanded my choices to any grey colors more recently, but with palladium hardware only.) I don't think my specs are that difficult...?

I think I just have to be patient to get one QB and the SO from Madison as there is nothing much I can do. Then, I will be done in the US (but, I would still shop in Paris and potentially in China only).

I hear your frustration. Maybe I can help clarify a few things. I was just in my home store last weekend and overheard an SA tell a couple who bought a cashmere coat, belt, bracelet, scarf that mk/b25 were basically impossible and pretty much shut down any hope. The client asked about a mini Lindy and SA said she would make a note but was honest and outright told the couple not to get their hopes up any time soon. She told them that she has no idea nor control over what is sent over from Paris. So, that is my first hand account and seems consistent with what is expressed on tpf. Sorry if that is not what you wanted to hear.

My second point alludes to your last paragraph comment about getting the qb/so and then you will be done in the US. While you may not have outright said those words out loud to your SA, this exact sentiment is probably what your SA is subliminally sensing therefore she is behaving as such. It is only fiscally logical for her to milk this relationship. I am not taking her side at all so please don’t be offended. I am hoping only to perhaps offer some clarity and reduce the frustration level to make your shopping experience more manageable with you SA relationship.

 

[Daydrmer]

I think it really helps to remember we do not know all of the behind the scenes doings and things could change at a moments notice. And a lot of it isn't in our SAs control. So we have to take what may sound like concrete statements with a grain of salt.

I have a friend, that shops at Madison, who turned down a QB(popular size and color) because they wanted one particular(popular) color. Their SA encouraged them to turn the offer down if they didn't love it. The SA seemed pretty confident that they could get them the color they wanted relatively soon(like within a month). Six months later, and twice the spend, that offer finally came. Who knows what was happening behind the curtain to make the SA feel confident in stating they could delivery the bag and who knows what changed that made it so the next offer wasn't for another six months.

It really is best to not trip oneself up over these things. There is so much involved that we do not know AND have little to no control over.

 

[Bdbunny]

first rely on your SA to give you the most relevant advice to your particular situation.

Totally agree with this, but one has to have trust in their SA to do this, and Op seems to have issues with trusting his SA.

I also think it helps to 1) not be a jerk, 2) not be an entitled jerk, 3) and as our dear @haute okole said, spend freely and spend happily. THEN the bags magically appear without asking.

 

[Capitaliste]

I hear your frustration. Maybe I can help clarify a few things. I was just in my home store last weekend and overheard an SA tell a couple who bought a cashmere coat, belt, bracelet, scarf that mk/b25 were basically impossible and pretty much shut down any hope. The client asked about a mini Lindy and SA said she would make a note but was honest and outright told the couple not to get their hopes up any time soon. She told them that she has no idea nor control over what is sent over from Paris. So, that is my first hand account and seems consistent with what is expressed on tpf. Sorry if that is not what you wanted to hear.

My second point alludes to your last paragraph comment about getting the qb/so and then you will be done in the US. While you may not have outright said those words out loud to your SA, this exact sentiment is probably what your SA is subliminally sensing therefore she is behaving as such. It is only fiscally logical for her to milk this relationship. I am not taking her side at all so please don’t be offended. I am hoping only to perhaps offer some clarity and reduce the frustration level to make your shopping experience more manageable with you SA relationship.

@blushnbellinlvoe - I totally get what you are saying here and thank you.

I think it really helps to remember we do not know all of the behind the scenes doings and things could change at a moments notice. And a lot of it isn't in our SAs control. So we have to take what may sound like concrete statements with a grain of salt.

I have a friend, that shops at Madison, who turned down a QB(popular size and color) because they wanted one particular(popular) color. Their SA encouraged them to turn the offer down if they didn't love it. The SA seemed pretty confident that they could get them the color they wanted relatively soon(like within a month). Six months later, and twice the spend, that offer finally came. Who knows what was happening behind the curtain to make the SA feel confident in stating they could delivery the bag and who knows what changed that made it so the next offer wasn't for another six months.

It really is best to not trip oneself up over these things. There is so much involved that we do not know AND have little to no control over.

@Daydrmer - I totally agree and I appreciate your comment. What you described is just perfect to me.

Anyways, everyone has to embark on their own journeys and experiences. Just wanted to share mine.

Yes! I am working on my own journey as well, and wanted to hear others' valuable experiences (in general and regarding my inquiry). And, I needed help when I struggle like this time.

 

[DME]

Seriously, I know op mentioned a while back that he didn’t want to buy resale, but there are a ton of bbb35s and prices are coming down. I buy both resale and boutique. Box leather looks better with some age imo only

I give his SA some benefit of the doubt. When he started this search, perhaps she went to the SM and asked do you think this client can get xyz by this date. If the manager thought he had promise as a rising client, she might have said, likely by November. But, that can change at any moment.* It’s not all up to the SA. A guesstimate isn’t a contract written in stone even for a vip

If a client shops elsewhere, imo he’s trading short term gratification for his long term goals. But, it’s the clients choice. His wallet, his choice. But, by the same token, the SA can certainly give the bag to someone else.

Agree with @Veritybelle; it’s kind of like airline club status lol

ETA: * this isn’t personal. How to allocate bags or any scarce desirable product is a business decision. An SA or SM likely doesn’t have the time, bandwidth, or energy for personal grips with clients , but they do have to adhere to the ever changing corp policy

Lots of great points here (and in your other posts on the current discussion). I bolded the one bit to call this specific point out. The OP has made it clear here on several occasions that he is done with H U.S. once his SO and B35 materialize. Even if he doesn’t tell his SA this, I believe that one of his handle changes was to better disguise himself since he learned that his SA might be reading tPF. We’ve all been able to follow along through his multiple handle changes, so if his SA does, in fact, read tPF, then it stands to reason she’s been able to follow along, too. So I posit one of two things might be happening. The first is that his SA is stringing him along for a long as she can since she knows he’s done spending (at least with her and Madison) once those bags are in his hands. Or, and to tie back to the bonded point, she is onto him and so is the SM, and they no longer feel he has promise as a long-term client, so that bag once promised as easy to get has all of a sudden become borderline impossible.

All that analysis aside, I’ve heard it stated here and it was what I gathered during recent bag discussions with my own SA that H is simply not producing as many larger bags right now. While I didn’t see the full list my store had available, there seemed to be a lot more B30 and B25 options on offer than B35.

 

[DoggieBags]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about whether or not getting a non QB bag will delay your QB offer. The answer depends on the status of your SAs leather allocation. Each SA has monthly sales targets and a yearly sales target. Let’s say it’s $100 a month adding up to $1,200 for the entire year. The monthly numbers are scrutinized but ultimately the one number the SA cannot miss is the yearly revenue number so you can miss one month and make it up in another month as long as your year end total meets the target. That $100 monthly target is broken down further into categories. I have no idea what the actual percentages really are so am making up percentages here just to further illustrate the process. Let’s say hypothetically the $100 is broken down into 30% leather, 30% fine jewelry and watches, 30% RTW, 10% home ware. I’m sure the leather category is broken down further between QB and non QB but let’s just lump all bags together in the 30% for now. Every bag your SA sells counts against his/her 30% leather allocation. They can fudge and go over a little in a month but must be at 30% or less for leather in their year end total. So whether your SA sells you a QB or non QB bag, it still counts against their monthly/ yearly 30%. The percentages are just as important as the total sales number at year end so an SA who makes the $1,200 year end target by selling $600 (50%) leather and 50% in all other categories will not be rewarded. So every bag your SA sells you is one less bag they have available to sell to the rest of their clients. So that’s why buying a non QB could delay your QB offer. And that’s also why buying in other categories matters. If your SA has a banner year and sells a total of $2,400 that year then he/she has an allocation of $720 instead of $360 for bags for that year so that’s more bags she/he can sell his/her clients. You could luck out if you are a primarily leather client if you happen to have an SA who has primarily RTW clients because you may get a bigger leather allocation than clients with SAs who have a more leather centric client base. On top of that your SA is also dealing with bag availability. They may have the leather allocation to assign to you this month but not the bag that meets your specs. In which case that leather allocation may go to a client for a bag that is currently in stock. So it’s not just the strength of your profile that determines your bag offers although that can obviously help move you up in priority. Of course exceptions are made for VVIP clients but for the vast majority of H clients, your SA has to factor in bag offers based on their available leather allocation paired with bag availability.