Is Coach using plastic?

[Hyacinth]

Wow, Hyacinth thanks for posting the coach screed. I read the whole thing. Very informative about leather, and eye-opening! and probably saved me hundreds of dollars.
Unfortunately in the United States it is buyer beware and businesses always win over unions and consumers. But if enough of us are informed consumers, we can make changes. I definitely won’t be buying a coach bag now. And unfortunately it’s not only coach, but products across-the-board, like appliances, furniture, pretty much everything, have been hollowed out with cheaper materials, but much more expensive prices.
This is my first comment here, just joined. Definitely worthwhile so far

I agree. Even food products are being cheapened. I'm not pointing fingers at any one country, but since so many formerly American businesses have moved production to China or out-and-out sold their respected name brands to the Chinese, quality all over has taken a nose dive.

Amazon has thousands of examples. I've learned to ALWAYS read the reviews, and especially the Negative ones and the most recent ones. The difference between customer reviews just in the last 5 or 10 years has been huge. Something as basic as tea, for instance. I searched yesterday for Peach Tea through half a dozen brands I've bought before, and the reviews for several of them have really crashed just in the last few years. They've gone from "the best!' and "great tea!" to "no flavor", "stale", "musty", "don't think this is real ... (fill in name here)" among others. Hard to say whether the problems are due to a change of ownership or management, or just an attempt to cut costs, (and yes, I know reviews can be manipulated and faked) but I won't buy ANYTHING any more without researching it first.

 

[highrider9o9]

Full grain leather
Top grain leather
Split leather
Bonded leather
I think the bag I cut open was probably underside of split leather and was coated with plastic and stamped to give texture.

Ugh I remember working there when they introduced crossgrain leather and having to learn all of the different "types" of leather they had and all the details for each.

 

[americandreaming]

Wow, Hyacinth thanks for posting the coach screed. I read the whole thing. Very informative about leather, and eye-opening! and probably saved me hundreds of dollars.
I definitely won’t be buying a coach bag now. And unfortunately it’s not only coach, but products across-the-board, like appliances, furniture, pretty much everything, have been hollowed out with cheaper materials, but much more expensive prices.

Me too, I even reread the screed when I need a refresher. However, Coach is not the only brand doing this - almost all designer 'leather' bags are made this way and unless they specifically state fg leather eg on vintage Coach creeds and Hermes website you can bet it's the same plastic-coated splits. Luckily at the time I came across the screed I had only under a handful of new leather Coach bags and now the vast majority of my collection are vintage fg fa leather.

However, I have continued to buy new Coach bags and will continue, probably only preloved nwt/outlet/sale, if I like the design because the new leather still has a place in my life for many reasons. Firstly, I live in the rainy uk and wouldn't dare to bring my fg fa bags out in the rain. That's what my plastic-coated new Coach bags are for! Secondly, I'm too scared to bring my mini vintage bags to anything involving a high chance of staining eg nights out since most stains don't come out. That's what my plastic-coated new Coach bags are for! Lastly, my vintage bags are very heavy so I don't always feel like carrying them and prefer something lighter on my shoulders. That's what my plastic-coated new Coach bags are for! Haha.

The Coach screed made me realise paying more for a bag (eg buying a premier brand bag) does not mean the quality is superior. This means paying any more than what I pay for my Coach collection brings diminishing returns as I am personally choosing mostly based on quality, not name, although I am fond of Coach's history. Therefore I would not pay for (I have been kindly gifted) anything more expensive than Coach unless it's Hermes.

Ugh I remember working there when they introduced crossgrain leather and having to learn all of the different "types" of leather they had and all the details for each.

I hate crossgrain! I had a gallery tote I used for work a few times which I didn't mind too much since it's so durable and was a throw-around bag but sold for next to nothing to move it on and reverted to my longchamp lp since it's so light and doesn't kill my shoulder when full, or a Berghaus backpack. I do like Coach's glovetanned and pebbled leather though. I like my (pebbled) Sadie a lot for nights out.

 

[Lavendera]

Me too, I even reread the screed when I need a refresher. However, Coach is not the only brand doing this - almost all designer 'leather' bags are made this way and unless they specifically state fg leather eg on vintage Coach creeds and Hermes website you can bet it's the same plastic-coated splits. Luckily at the time I came across the screed I had only under a handful of new leather Coach bags and now the vast majority of my collection are vintage fg fa leather.

However, I have continued to buy new Coach bags and will continue, probably only preloved nwt/outlet/sale, if I like the design because the new leather still has a place in my life for many reasons. Firstly, I live in the rainy uk and wouldn't dare to bring my fg fa bags out in the rain. That's what my plastic-coated new Coach bags are for! Secondly, I'm too scared to bring my mini vintage bags to anything involving a high chance of staining eg nights out since most stains don't come out. That's what my plastic-coated new Coach bags are for! Lastly, my vintage bags are very heavy so I don't always feel like carrying them and prefer something lighter on my shoulders. That's what my plastic-coated new Coach bags are for! Haha.

The Coach screed made me realise paying more for a bag (eg buying a premier brand bag) does not mean the quality is superior. This means paying any more than what I pay for my Coach collection brings diminishing returns as I am personally choosing mostly based on quality, not name, although I am fond of Coach's history. Therefore I would not pay for (I have been kindly gifted) anything more expensive than Coach unless it's Hermes.


I hate crossgrain! I had a gallery tote I used for work a few times which I didn't mind too much since it's so durable and was a throw-around bag but sold for next to nothing to move it on and reverted to my longchamp lp since it's so light and doesn't kill my shoulder when full, or a Berghaus backpack. I do like Coach's glovetanned and pebbled leather though. I like my (pebbled) Sadie a lot for nights out.

American dreaming, yes I’m sure Coach is not the only one doing this. Just wish the public was fully informed as to what they’re getting.

I had just been considering buying a new Coach bag, because I don’t wish to spend many thousands on a Hermes handbag, and I thought, well, at least Coach makes good quality leather, thinking of my old luscious 1990s bag (although I did notice that 10-15 years ago Coach started feeling like plastic)

Anyway, I read the screed and now I know, the Coach leather and quality of today is Nothing like the Coach leather of before. If I were to be a buyer, it would be at a very, very low price point.

 

[Lavendera]

I agree. Even food products are being cheapened. I'm not pointing fingers at any one country, but since so many formerly American businesses have moved production to China or out-and-out sold their respected name brands to the Chinese, quality all over has taken a nose dive.

Amazon has thousands of examples. I've learned to ALWAYS read the reviews, and especially the Negative ones and the most recent ones. The difference between customer reviews just in the last 5 or 10 years has been huge. Something as basic as tea, for instance. I searched yesterday for Peach Tea through half a dozen brands I've bought before, and the reviews for several of them have really crashed just in the last few years. They've gone from "the best!' and "great tea!" to "no flavor", "stale", "musty", "don't think this is real ... (fill in name here)" among others. Hard to say whether the problems are due to a change of ownership or management, or just an attempt to cut costs, (and yes, I know reviews can be manipulated and faked) but I won't buy ANYTHING any more without researching it first.

Hyacinth, yes it all seemed to begin with outsourcing, didn’t it? But reading the screed, I also realize it has to do with our regulations being weakened by industry. It was very interesting to read how in Europe, workers are valued and have an equal voice in regulations pertaining to their trades and professions.

I think another part with American industry is that a company’s value used to be based on providing quality products. Now companies value is determined by their stock price. And the best way to bump up their stock price is to financially hollow out the company, many times over. Most companies today are highly leveraged financially to wring out every last penny, their products almost don’t matter anymore.

And yes, with reviews, the negative ones usually turn out to be the most truthful.

 

[AManIntoFashion]

Great posts so far. I am going to have to look at Coach Screed (admittedly I never heard of it before, so thank you!).

I agree that coated canvas/Saffiano has it's place and is extremely convenient (especially for someone like me with OCD who doesn't want any flaws on my products). However, I wish beautiful supple leathers and creative jacquard signatures were as EQUALLY represented in all products across all brands as much as coated canvas and Saffiano currently are over represented.

 

[BrinaBow]

I’ve never purchased anything Coach in the crossgrain leather - to me, it looks like a weirdly textured patent leather. I don’t like the shine or texture of it at all. More power to people that do, it’s just not my cup of tea.

 

[LadyLuna]

I read most of the Screed and found it really interesting (and a bit depressing). It made me decide to take another look at companies who are very open about their leather sources. Mulberry is proclaiming itself as sourcing their leathers from a German tannery that is a highly rated member of the Leather Working Group. I found Gucci and Chloe to be rather opaque. Does anyone know of any other companies that use full grain leather from traceable sources?

 

[americandreaming]

I read most of the Screed and found it really interesting (and a bit depressing). It made me decide to take another look at companies who are very open about their leather sources. Mulberry is proclaiming itself as sourcing their leathers from a German tannery that is a highly rated member of the Leather Working Group. I found Gucci and Chloe to be rather opaque. Does anyone know of any other companies that use full grain leather from traceable sources?

I have never seen any of the three companies you named state they use fg leather. Do you have sources?

eta in fact there is a well-known leather worker on YouTube who dissects a Gucci 'leather' wallet and shows just how little actual 'leather' is used and it's most definitely not fg!

 

[LadyLuna]

I didn't express what I meant very well....what I was trying to say was that I tried to find companies that listed both the type of leather and the source. Mulberry does not state that they use full grain leather, but they are very open about the source of their leather. I wanted to look at both a French and an Italian company because those countries have different industrial standards to the US. I mentioned that their websites are "opaque" because they actually don't give any information at all. The Gucci "Diana" is listed as "leather".
Coach describes the leather on the Rogue currently listed as "natural" pebbled leather. As far as I know, the word "natural" is not legally binding in the US. I may email customer service to ask what it really means in this context.

 

[rubypurple]

Thanks for posting the coach screed link. It's very informative and I feel like I will be more careful in purchasing new bags from Coach or from any other brand.

 

[thriftyoldbag1]

According to The Coach Screed, Coach has been using plastic coatings on many of their bags starting 10 or 15 years ago with the ones made in China. Federal labeling laws regarding leather description and content were changed about 20 years ago (I'm going from memory here so don't quote me) and Coach took advantage of the changes to add more plastic content, especially coatings. It explains why so many Coaches from the last 10 or 20 years have been thought to be counterfeit because they smelled and felt like plastic.

THIS, along with the six Salearea Coach Guides posted at the Coach Shopping sub-forum, should be required reading for any Coach buyer, seller and collector, it's VERY long but well worth your time:

Cyberia Vintage: The Coach Screed

and the Salearea Coach Guides, geared more toward vintage lovers. The first 13 posts are mostly background and some of the links in them no longer work but read them anyway. Read the entire thread for even more useful information:

SaleArea guides

Now that ebay is removing the guides they've been hosting for years, those who use those guides have been forced to either save them on their computers or print them. Tonight I found that the Salearea guides (including the Hyacinth/Salearea collaboration ones) have been saved to Salearea's...

forum.purseblog.com

This is fascinating and depressing in equal measure...

 

[Hyacinth]

This is fascinating and depressing in equal measure...

Amen to that.

 

[soupsoup2018]

Coach describes the leather on the Rogue currently listed as "natural" pebbled leather. As far as I know, the word "natural" is not legally binding in the US. I may email customer service to ask what it really means in this context.

I wonder if the Responsible leather items that Coach issued this year had more leather content than the other "genuine .... leather" stamped items, since those few items had "original .... leather" stamped on the bags vs 'genuine leather' (yes with their other usual words in between). It would be interesting if LadyLuna finds out more information from Coach customer service. I thought the Upwoven items were a unique look, but I did not like the harder glovetanned leather on the straps and tops and bottoms of the bags, so I ended up returning those purchases.

 

[americandreaming]

I wonder if the Responsible leather items that Coach issued this year had more leather content than the other "genuine .... leather" stamped items, since those few items had "original .... leather" stamped on the bags vs 'genuine leather' (yes with their other usual words in between). It would be interesting if LadyLuna finds out more information from Coach customer service. I thought the Upwoven items were a unique look, but I did not like the harder glovetanned leather on the straps and tops and bottoms of the bags, so I ended up returning those purchases.

@whateve any thoughts?

I will be popping into the store at some point this month so will investigate this properly in person. I had seen their dyed veg tan leather bags there before but didn't inspect them. I think the best modern Coach leather I've seen is on the 1941 leather-lined bags.