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#14,866
Mindi B said:
Nosferatu is SO CREEPY! I haven't seen it for years, but that bug-eyed, beak-nosed vampire (Max Schreck, right?) is one scary dude! I prefer my vampires to look like the young Frank Langella, thankyouverymuch. :p
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Frank Langella as Dracula I saw at the Kennedy Center years ago. He and George Hamilton make the best --most charming, come hither -- vampires.
Tomorrow I have to put out my stuffed pumpkin. (It's a plushie but colorful. It used to scream when squeezed but I wore the battery out). I love all the pumpkins people put on their doorsteps these days. Some glorious folks who really know how to celebrate Halloween have giant black cats and spiders on their front lawn, huge balloons the size of a car.
 
#14,867
People seem to love decorating for Halloween more than any other holiday, even Christmas. Some of the yardscapes are amazing! I wouldn't have the patience to put everything up and take it all down, but I love looking at what others do.
 
#14,868
Mindi B said:
People put in jail for harming others deserve that fate because the legal system has determined that the perpetrator knew the difference between right and wrong and chose to do wrong. Those for whom mental illness blurs that distinction are remanded to secure mental hospitals for treatment. Animals do not, as far as research can show us, have the capacity for reasoning a la homo sapiens, and cannot therefore decide to do wrong. An animal that snaps or bites does so out of instinct and previous behavioral learning--the latter almost always, in the case of domestic companion animals, derived from bad experiences at the hands of human beings. Very occasionally an animal may be born with a cognitive defect that makes them uniquely vicious, but this is very rare. The vast majority of cases of "dangerous" domesticated animals owe their dangerousness to bad, or at least foolish, human beings. While your friend's injury is horrific, MadMadCat, I would question why someone who'd had a dog known to be aggressive for only four days would put her face close enough to it to be so badly hurt. She was clearly trying to do a good thing and her experience was certainly horrible, but I would not go so far as to say that the dog was "a monster" who "deserved" his fate (presumably euthanasia). While that may indeed have been the the only and even the best option for that dog, his harmful behavior was not something he was capable of intending, and he was no more nor less than a dog.
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I actually give more credit to animals. I am absolutely certain they do know right from wrong, even just from the fact of being rewarded or punished. I am not saying that an animal that misbehaves must be "mean" by nature, but a 4-5 years old dog that has behavior that - if it was a human - would be considered antisocial, can hardly be redeemed by an attentive owner.
Or, in the case of my friend, a series of owners, who demonstrated a heart good enough to adopt an adult dog instead of going for the more-sought-after puppy.

My friend is a sweet, very upbeat woman who had a very similar dog in the past, and she may have projected her old trust on the new animal. In any case, she was collecting his toys from the floor, therefore she was bending down, when the dog decided he did not like her collecting the toys and jumped to bite her face. She was not harassing him, threatening him or mistreating him. The dog has problems. During the day she started bringing the dog to a "dog daycare place" (which apparently make kids daycare look a bargain) but after a while the management said that they would not keep the dog since it would "pick a fight" with the other dogs, biting them and being aggressive.

Again, I am a dog lover and some say I am a "dog whisperer", but I believe that some animals are beyond redemption. I understand you have a different position, which is perfectly fine with me :smile:.:drinks:
 
#14,869
MadMadCat said:
I actually give more credit to animals. I am absolutely certain they do know right from wrong, even just from the fact of being rewarded or punished. I am not saying that an animal that misbehaves must be "mean" by nature, but a 4-5 years old dog that has behavior that - if it was a human - would be considered antisocial, can hardly be redeemed by an attentive owner.
Or, in the case of my friend, a series of owners, who demonstrated a heart good enough to adopt an adult dog instead of going for the more-sought-after puppy.

My friend is a sweet, very upbeat woman who had a very similar dog in the past, and she may have projected her old trust on the new animal. In any case, she was collecting his toys from the floor, therefore she was bending down, when the dog decided he did not like her collecting the toys and jumped to bite her face. She was not harassing him, threatening him or mistreating him. The dog has problems. During the day she started bringing the dog to a "dog daycare place" (which apparently make kids daycare look a bargain) but after a while the management said that they would not keep the dog since it would "pick a fight" with the other dogs, biting them and being aggressive.

Again, I am a dog lover and some say I am a "dog whisperer", but I believe that some animals are beyond redemption. I understand you have a different position, which is perfectly fine with me :smile:.:drinks:
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This dog sounds like a candidate for Cesar 911. Even tho I am not a pet owner, I enjoy watching his show. He has such a nice manner: he's matter of fact and goes about his business but is very pleasant and supportive to his clients. I gather he pinches or tweaks the dog's neck or holds his index finger up in a chiding manner to get the dog to pay attention. I don't know why that works. I can't believe that works. Would it work on a out of control Rottie?
 
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#14,870
I am genuinely sorry about your friend's experience and certainly I never said, nor intended to suggest, that she was mistreating the dog when he bit her. I have zero doubt that her intentions were the very best. I think just as you said, she was simply a little too quick to trust the dog based on her past doggy contacts. Totally understandable.
On the general subject of canine nature, I think there is a difference between knowing that some behaviors are rewarded and others punished, and understanding the more complex and loaded constructs of right and wrong. The former requires only the appropriate (prompt) timing of consequences; the latter requires a theory of mind, concept of morality, self-awareness, and the will to transgress, or not to--none of which, in my opinion, animals possess. The main reason this is important (beyond the interesting philosophical implications, I suppose) is that when people (not you, MadMadCat, nor your friend) start to think that dogs do naughty things on purpose, out of spite, etc., they tend to punish the dog, often well after the behavior has occurred, which serves no functional purpose and is unfair to the animal. We humans (and I am SO guilty of this) tend to anthropomorphize pretty much everything, which is sometimes useful and often amusing but can be downright harmful if we take it too far. But yes, this dog sounds like he was troubled (and trouble) and there was, sadly, no way he would ever have been a safe pet. Ultimately, I feel badly for everybody in this scenario, two- and four-legged.
 
#14,871
Cesar is pretty amazing, eagle. I guess his methods are controversial in animal training circles and they don't work for everyone, but they certainly seem to work beautifully for him!
 
#14,872
Mindi B said:
I am genuinely sorry about your friend's experience and certainly I never said, nor intended to suggest, that she was mistreating the dog when he bit her. I have zero doubt that her intentions were the very best. I think just as you said, she was simply a little too quick to trust the dog based on her past doggy contacts. Totally understandable.
On the general subject of canine nature, I think there is a difference between knowing that some behaviors are rewarded and others punished, and understanding the more complex and loaded constructs of right and wrong. The former requires only the appropriate (prompt) timing of consequences; the latter requires a theory of mind, concept of morality, self-awareness, and the will to transgress, or not to--none of which, in my opinion, animals possess. The main reason this is important (beyond the interesting philosophical implications, I suppose) is that when people (not you, MadMadCat, nor your friend) start to think that dogs do naughty things on purpose, out of spite, etc., they tend to punish the dog, often well after the behavior has occurred, which serves no functional purpose and is unfair to the animal. We humans (and I am SO guilty of this) tend to anthropomorphize pretty much everything, which is sometimes useful and often amusing but can be downright harmful if we take it too far. But yes, this dog sounds like he was troubled (and trouble) and there was, sadly, no way he would ever have been a safe pet. Ultimately, I feel badly for everybody in this scenario, two- and four-legged.
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Don't feel bad for Monster (we call it that way, including my friend). She is still taking care of him in spite of his nasty character and disruptive nature. Her house looks like a war zone, and the dog is the king at this point. She does not want to give him back to the shelter because for sure they'd put him down, but she cannot risk to be hurt again. I think she got more tetanus shots than anyone i know!

A few weeks back the dog escaped and i suspect all her friends were hoping Monster would not be found and returned!
 
#14,873
eagle1002us said:
This dog sounds like a candidate for Cesar 911. Even tho I am not a pet owner, I enjoy watching his show. He has such a nice manner: he's matter of fact and goes about his business but is very pleasant and supportive to his clients. I gather he pinches or tweaks the dog's neck or holds his index finger up in a chiding manner to get the dog to pay attention. I don't know why that works. I can't believe that works. Would it work on a out of control Rottie?
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Lol! Yes! It would make a good show!
 
#14,874
Well, that finally worked, MadMadCat. I am. . . almost. . . speechless. The dog is not a happy animal and your friend is not a happy dog-owner and your friend's friends are rooting for the dog to disappear or die. . . . Wow. I'm dropping the mic and exiting stage left.
 
#14,875
MrsOwen3 said:
Hi Cafe,

i'm taking a long weekend and like @dharma i went to a similarly swanky soirée last night which was so much fun and i met some very important people who were quite impressed with my work. It could mean more projects with dream clients.

This morning i went to see the new King of Prussia H boutique. it's lovely, the windows are amazing with all sorts of creatures made of leather and exotics too. While there are apparently piles of goodies in the stock room nothing was waiting for me and my sweet SA looked for other options but i'm very particular so today was not my day. Ah well, it gives me a bit more time to save and I went to Burberry and ordered a trench with fur trim and a removable liner. It's a splurge but i figure this is the most versatile piece i could get. It needs some tailoring but it's not yet the weather so I think it'll be ready in a couple more weeks. I think this will be perfect for Paris.

It's a lovely day here so i'm meeting my girlfriend and her newly adopted snarky dachshund. She was going to be put down for her attitude/biting and my BFF saved her and is working with a trainer to get her to chill a bit. She's an old girl but was not ready to go.

Hope everyone has a lovely day and weekend!

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FABULOUS windows!!
Imagine if people wanted to put *us* down for "attitude"......LOL
 
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#14,877
Mindi B said:
Well, that finally worked, MadMadCat. I am. . . almost. . . speechless. The dog is not a happy animal and your friend is not a happy dog-owner and your friend's friends are rooting for the dog to disappear or die. . . . Wow. I'm dropping the mic and exiting stage left.
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Omg, what did i do?! [emoji1]

I didn't want to bring a controversial subject up. Sorry if this has caused some stir-up. On the other hand, almost anything worth chatting about is controversial, don't you think? If we all agreed oneverything it would bean extremely dull (and a bit freakish) world.

Hugs!
 
#14,878
Hi cafe!
@MrsOwen3, great coat!! I'm so excited for you and the new prospects! I'll save you some trouble with the window photos, I took some that I can share
I'll put them in the next post to keep them organized.
Dog talk:
My dogs were abused shelter animals and it took a lot of work to "normalize" them. Luckily they were not biters, just shy and not socialized. They are still "off" but much better. I couldn't imagine giving up on them, as naughty as they can be sometimes. Just glad they don't chew leather! @MadMadCat, maybe it's time for your friend to seek professional help? I mean that in the nicest way. Perhaps request to be on the dog whisper show?
VampireTalk: I prefer the sexy True Blood guys :graucho:
 
#14,880
eagle1002us said:
Yes, when I walked a lot it did add up. Yarn? What kinds of things do you make, Genie
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Eagle, I make scarves and shawls mostly. I like working with lace weight silk-blends that open up after blocking. And chunky baby alpaca that work up into cosy statement pieces that unfortunately shed like crazy. I've also made some blankets and throws and cushions for niece/nephew etc. There is something so therapeutic about the yarn working its way through my fingers. I enjoy crochet more than knitting as I can wrap my hook to make it ergonomic, while knitting needles feel cold and skinny in my hands. Plus it seems there's more hand to yarn contact when I crochet.
 
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