Buyer is trying to force a return? Not sure what to do?

[whateve]

Hi all! Thank you so much for your kind words and advice. I will be taking them all into consideration.

* Yes! All messages have been exchanged on eBay messaging. Whew.

* Ugh. That's a great point with declining + blocking. My listing was a BIN or Best offer, but he bought it at the BIN and now I really wish I had read his feedback prior to sending it out. It was 100% positive, so I didn't think even think twice! I guess 100% doesn't mean anything for those who primarily buy.

* I guess I'll be posting signature confirmation in all relevant listings now!

* Yeah, you guys are probably right on the insurance part. Darn it :/ What do sellers typically do for that? Leave it up to the buyer to add the option of insurance or do you guys add that to the shipping price? Does that hurt seller liability in any way? Or does insurance mostly benefit the seller? I was under the impression it would go both ways in terms of refunding the buyer + protecting the seller.




Here's the updates so far...
I've reported the eBay user through the link on eBay :/ I think I'll give them a call about the user when the case is officially open? As of now FedEx is still making delivery attempts (today would be attempt #2 out of 3)

So at this point I'm still waiting to see if they end up holding it for him or not. Then I suppose I'll have to wait another ~4 days for it to come back to me? I had called to ask and the FedEx CS rep who told me they don't do holds, so I guess we'll see.

To answer your question about insurance - it is to protect the seller. If anything happens to the package, the seller is responsible, not the buyer. If the package is lost or damaged, the buyer will get his money back from you. Then you'll have to file a claim with the shipper for the insurance. If I'm going to buy it, I'll add the cost into the shipping price of my item.

I'm not usually very exact when I calculate my shipping costs so often it will cost me more to ship than I charged. Other times I offer a lower shipping price just to make my item more attractive to buyers. That's where a restocking fee is helpful in the case of returns. I am torn between not accepting returns and allowing returns so I can charge a restocking fee. There are benefits to both approaches. Recently I haven't had any returns on my account that accepts returns. I think the restocking fee acts as a deterrent.

 

[BeenBurned]

* I guess I'll be posting signature confirmation in all relevant listings now!

* Yeah, you guys are probably right on the insurance part. Darn it :/ What do sellers typically do for that? Leave it up to the buyer to add the option of insurance or do you guys add that to the shipping price? Does that hurt seller liability in any way? Or does insurance mostly benefit the seller? I was under the impression it would go both ways in terms of refunding the buyer + protecting the seller.

To answer your question about insurance - it is to protect the seller. If anything happens to the package, the seller is responsible, not the buyer. If the package is lost or damaged, the buyer will get his money back from you. Then you'll have to file a claim with the shipper for the insurance. If I'm going to buy it, I'll add the cost into the shipping price of my item.

I have a couple of comments.

1. You didn't do anything wrong in not mentioning s.c. in the listing. As an ebay member, it's assumed that members have read the TOS when agreeing to the terms. (You do check the box that says you've read and understood.) So buyers *supposedly* know that purchases of $750 or more will require a signature.

While it certainly doesn't hurt to mention it in the listing, you don't need to mention it in order to hold buyers to it and expect them to sign for their purchases.

2. To expand on Whateve's comments about insurance, I just want to add that it's actually a policy violation to charge a buyer extra if the package is insured.

There was a time when sellers could make insurance optional and if buyers wanted it, the cost could be added to the shipping price. But approximately 8 years ago, it was changed when ebay rightly realized that it's not the buyer's responsibility to worry about insurance.

So although we often see listings where sellers state that insurance is an optional extra, those sellers are breaking the rules.

 

[whateve]

I have a couple of comments.

1. You didn't do anything wrong in not mentioning s.c. in the listing. As an ebay member, it's assumed that members have read the TOS when agreeing to the terms. (You do check the box that says you've read and understood.) So buyers *supposedly* know that purchases of $750 or more will require a signature.

While it certainly doesn't hurt to mention it in the listing, you don't need to mention it in order to hold buyers to it and expect them to sign for their purchases.

2. To expand on Whateve's comments about insurance, I just want to add that it's actually a policy violation to charge a buyer extra if the package is insured.

There was a time when sellers could make insurance optional and if buyers wanted it, the cost could be added to the shipping price. But approximately 8 years ago, it was changed when ebay rightly realized that it's not the buyer's responsibility to worry about insurance.

So although we often see listings where sellers state that insurance is an optional extra, those sellers are breaking the rules.

I appreciate your comments.

I felt so guilty when I didn't mention the signature requirement in my listings. From the viewpoint of my buyers, if they had known beforehand, they could have changed their shipping address to their office. I never considered that they had a responsibility to know the TOS.

I didn't realize it was against ebay's rules to charge extra for insurance. It annoys me to no end to see that on listings. As well as those sellers who say that they aren't responsible for the package once it ships. They are hoping their buyers are too stupid to know better.

 

[MissMarion]

IMO the best outcome of this is to get your item back from FedEx. If the buyer actually receives it he will probably continue to be a jerk. Honestly, if I had this kind of hassle selling a $750 item I wouldn't mind eating the shipping costs if it meant getting my stuff back. Maybe that's just me but I don't think $40 is too much considering the alternative.

 

[unluckystars]

As far as I know, Fedex doesn't deliver on Saturdays unless you pay extra for Saturday delivery. Unless you saw Saturday on tracking after you shipped listed for expected delivery, I feel he made that part up.

 

[regretless]

Hi all,

Whateve + BeenBurned: thanks for your support and for answering my question pertaining the insurance!

MissMarion: I have def considered that option :/ It is exhausting going through this... as of now I've still yet to get my item back!

unluckystars: I think they might deliver on Saturdays for the option that I picked! At least that's what it says on their website. Hmmm...

Update: 3/3/2016
Still waiting for the package to come back... :/

 

[Konicek007]

What a nasty person! I would never ship to him, i would be too scared something wouldgo ,,wrong,, later with the transaction.
I wonder if he actually got the item and did something to it ( swapped etc) and then rejected it..as it all doesn't make any sense to me...

 

[Cmward]

What a nasty person! I would never ship to him, i would be too scared something wouldgo ,,wrong,, later with the transaction.
I wonder if he actually got the item and did something to it ( swapped etc) and then rejected it..as it all doesn't make any sense to me...

They wouldn't be able to get their hands on the package without signing for it. Once you sign for it you can't turn around and refuse it later with FedEx or pretty much any other shipper.

 

[LVlvoe_bug]

Hi all,

Whateve + BeenBurned: thanks for your support and for answering my question pertaining the insurance!

MissMarion: I have def considered that option :/ It is exhausting going through this... as of now I've still yet to get my item back!

unluckystars: I think they might deliver on Saturdays for the option that I picked! At least that's what it says on their website. Hmmm...

Update: 3/3/2016
Still waiting for the package to come back... :/

It sounds like it was home delivery that had it who works Tuesdays- Saturdays...Did fedex say why they didn't delivery the item if it was on a truck that day? They can't offer the buyer some option to hold since it was their error....

 

[regretless]

Konicek007, Yeah unfortunately I shipped it before he started backing all of those requests so I couldn't take it back I don't think he tampered with it since the tracking says he never picked it up

LVlvoe_bug: So what happened was that after I sent him links to ebay/paypal policy, the buyer messaged me and told me he understood my situation as a seller wanting seller protection and that he already arranged for pickup with Fedex and that everything was fine. The buyer didn't tell me the specifics of what he arranged with Fedex, only that he worked out something that could fit into his schedule.

Then on Monday morning he messages me to let me know that over the weekend that had just past, he had taken a day off from work to wait for Fedex in his own home (not sure why he didn't just pick it up at the fedex location? I had told him early on that this would be an option for him). He said he confirmed with fedex via phone call and the tracking said out for delivery-- but ultimately they never showed up. The buyer seems like he's trying to use that against me? I don't know why Fedex didn't show up on Saturday-- the buyer made arrangements on his own and I was unaware of the matter until he messaged me about it after the whole thing was over :/

Even if it arrived on Tuesday the package is still arriving to him on time and ahead of the promised arrival time in my listing. Then he says he's traveling out of town to the end of the week-- but it says in the tracking that Fedex held it for him long enough for him to come back and were awaiting for him to give further notice on how to proceed with the package. But he's still not picking it up or making other arrangements?

He messages me again (I guess he's back from his travels?) to tell me that he has confirmed with Fedex that it's now going to be shipped back to me-- and requested that I refund him when it gets back and that the reason I need to do this is because I put a non-mandated signature confirmation on the package and he never wanted that (he's still using this against me????? I've sent him the policy 4 times now letting him know I'm not trying to make his life difficult, just trying to abide by seller protection requirements!!!). :cry: The tracking still shows up as "Awaiting additional delivery information from recipient" since Feb 26th. :/

Another one of his main arguments is that he claims I said the package will be delivered via "standard shipping" on the auction and since I added a signature confirmation, he doesn't consider that standard and says I was lying in my auction page

 

[LVlvoe_bug]

I am so sorry. It sounds like he didn't want the item and is making excuses now about the item..if he really wanted this item he would be making an effort to pick it up somewhere, whether at the station or maybe at a Fedex office store if that was an option......the shipping excuse is odd too, how does he define standard shipping then? I thought they had to deliver it a certain number of times before they send it back?

 

[gillianna]

Is it possible the buyer was trying to pull a scam with asking for no signature confirmation? Most people who buy on eBay especially spending big money know high priced items require signature confirmation. It would be so easy to say one did not receive a item if signature confirmation was neded for it because of the price and a seller did not get it.

 

[regretless]

Hi all,

It has been a crazy 2 weeks, so here's what ended up happening:

The buyer opened a case saying that he never received the item. I provided tracking that documented the 3 delivery attempts and the ~2 week hold at the offices. Tracking was still showing that they were waiting for his decision on how to proceed.

The buyer then claims that there were no door tags left at his door and no one has contacted him to contact the offices.

To which I replied that he had been provided with tracking ever since the item was shipped (he obviously knows how to refer to tracking since he keeps restating how he's been using it to track that Saturday delivery!) and that he needs to call FedEx (and I provided the phone #) and he can use his tracking # (restated that for him again too) as identification of his package.

The buyer responded with that it's going to be shipped back to me. Basically he wasn't going to arrange for anything.

At this point I gave eBay a call and the rep briefly reviewed my case. The rep suggested that I open a FedEx claim to explore the buyer's complaint of never having received a delivery. The rep also started reading the hostile messages that the buyer has been sending me outside of the official opened case... I think the rep understood that the situation was just ridiculous... The rep told me he was going to help write a note on my file that I'm doing everything that I need to be in terms of shipping it and that I will be protected via seller protection.

So I message the buyer to let him know that we can launch a full investigation with FedEx. For that I'll be needing his phone # to file the claim etc. I told him with his OK, we can make the FedEx claim and move forward with the case.

He never answered me directly whether or not he wanted me to open the FedEx case. I asked him 3 times and he kept replying with new complaints against FedEx instead... for example: "ma'am, fed ex was not at my house. they may have attempted a delivery at another location as fed ex in my area sucks" and "FEDEX is not waiting for me to do anything, I am waiting forfedex to deliver the package."

He also messaged me on ebay outside of the official claim during this time with hostile messages and lots of belittling "my dear" and "hun" were used. So I explained my case again about how he needs to contact fedex, that signature confirmation IS required by me for seller protection for transactions >$750, and that I stated economy shipping on my listing and it was shipped that way.

I don't know why he chose to message me outside of the claim? Maybe he didn't realize that when a case is opened and under review, that ALL of our messages on eBay will be reviewed? So I guess he thought he be nasty outside of the case? Anyway I couldn't take the names anymore so I also politely asked him to please stop it with the names because they're inappropriate and often construed as sexist and misogynistic to others.... guess what he replies....

"unfortunately, hun, I care little for social acceptance. moving forward, I personally do not care what methods you use with fedex. it was my job to be home when requested, and I was. when you work with fedex, please ask for some form of proof that they contacted me, or that they left a door tag at MY door. because, I am certain that they will say it was my door, however, I can say I will stop calling you hun and dear, but I wont bviously. meaning I lied or have just made a mistake. I would bet fedex just made a mistake. anyway being clear." and he just kept going on and on about how it's going to be shipped back to me, and that I'm going to have to refund him no matter what, he's going to file a credit card charge back, etc etc.

His story changed AGAIN? Now he's saying he was ALWAYS home? He told me he would NOT be at home several times!

I also took this time to message the seller (this seller is reputable and has over 980 feedback scores) who left our mutual buyer a positive feedback with negative comments (a transaction from 6 months ago).

Recap for those who weren't following the whole situation: I checked the buyer's feedback and one seller left him this: "BEWARE,ABUSED POLICY,RETURNED SMTH ELSE,ALREADY REPORTED TO EBAY,WANTED FREE". Unfortunately I didn't check the buyer's 100% positive feedback before I shipped the sold item

AND GUESS WHAT THE SELLER TELLS ME!!!:
"Hi, i already called eBay and did my report to them. First he said why did u send by post office. Then he replaced my item (250 dollar) with something else. He put something else in my box and returned it to me. And left negative feedback to me. You have to call eBay and report him. And also he has a friend he bought the same thing from me. I checked his address they live in same area. I cancel transaction. Cuz he wanted to do the same thing. Did he left feedback to you? If you leave the same feedback like me or something like that eBay is gonna close his account. Don't send him anything. Call eBay and report him. In case if open a case against you,you are not gonna lose. Thnx"

WOOOOOOW! So apparently this buyer hates fedex AND USPS? What??? A lot of the negative feedbacks that he leaves sellers (recap: he gave negative feedback to sellers 33% of all the transactions he's ever had!) pertain to shipping to the wrong address/changed shipping terms/never got my item! My guess is that he's just making up excuses that fit into whatever story he's spinning. And if it is true that the buyer swapped the item and filed an item not as described case... that is disgusting!!! How can people like that sleep at night???

Anyway, that aside... back to the main case filed against me on eBay:

The buyer decided to escalate the case to have eBay intervene last night. His claim: "seller recalled package and has signed for it. I was home every fedex delivery day and no attempt was made at my home to deliver. I have no google glas and no money I would like a refund, however seller thinks she gets the money and the un dlivered google glas."

He messaged me weeks ago stating that he would be on vacation/traveling/or whatever for the rest of the week which is why he can't pick it up.... now he's saying he was there every single time? What? So which is it???

eBay closed the case after... like 30 minutes... and in my favor!

I thought they'd have more questions to ask or something? They closed it pretty quickly... and told me they have decided that no refund should be given to the buyer and that there is nothing that I need to do. They also removed the negative feedback the buyer left me.

I'm shocked. Perhaps it was because the buyer's history of abusing policies is so evident? I'm going to be optimistic and believe that reporting buyers really does mean something. I'm just delighted that eBay actually protects their sellers! From what I've been reading around this forum and through google searches... it appears that there is certainly a trend where eBay sides with buyers! Sellers don't lose hope!!!!

I should be very happy... It's been a month that I've had being harassed by this guy, I woke up almost every day to a new hostile message from him. But I'm just not fully convinced he's going to take the resolution quietly.

I suppose for now I'm just going to block him from buying anything else from me... the other seller did say that one of his 'friends' or whatever in the same neighborhood tried to pull the same scam...

I keep thinking back... had I caved and removed that signature... this could have been soooo bad. I did think about it a few times in the beginning-- thinking maybe since he's requesting it and I have documented messages saying that it can't be held against me.... thank goodness I stuck with the hard policies instead.

Thank you TPFers for pointing me in the right direction! It was a terrifying process the entire way and having knowledgeable TPFers share their advice, opinions, and support really helped.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE block "wilritc". Nobody should have to go through what I did! I don't know that he'd be buying very many purses. It looks like he mainly buys high end tech items. But who knows!

I have no idea how his account still isn't suspended yet!

Another thought: I wonder if eBay decided to just refund both of us but chooses to keep that under wraps so word doesn't get out in fear of people abusing eBay to fork over money? I can see how that would keep buyers happy and sellers happy... both sides would still have faith in the "system" and word of it getting out won't be a problem because each of us are told that the other wouldn't have a refund?

 

[whateve]

Hi all,

It has been a crazy 2 weeks, so here's what ended up happening:

The buyer opened a case saying that he never received the item. I provided tracking that documented the 3 delivery attempts and the ~2 week hold at the offices. Tracking was still showing that they were waiting for his decision on how to proceed.

The buyer then claims that there were no door tags left at his door and no one has contacted him to contact the offices.

To which I replied that he had been provided with tracking ever since the item was shipped (he obviously knows how to refer to tracking since he keeps restating how he's been using it to track that Saturday delivery!) and that he needs to call FedEx (and I provided the phone #) and he can use his tracking # (restated that for him again too) as identification of his package.

The buyer responded with that it's going to be shipped back to me. Basically he wasn't going to arrange for anything.

At this point I gave eBay a call and the rep briefly reviewed my case. The rep suggested that I open a FedEx claim to explore the buyer's complaint of never having received a delivery. The rep also started reading the hostile messages that the buyer has been sending me outside of the official opened case... I think the rep understood that the situation was just ridiculous... The rep told me he was going to help write a note on my file that I'm doing everything that I need to be in terms of shipping it and that I will be protected via seller protection.

So I message the buyer to let him know that we can launch a full investigation with FedEx. For that I'll be needing his phone # to file the claim etc. I told him with his OK, we can make the FedEx claim and move forward with the case.

He never answered me directly whether or not he wanted me to open the FedEx case. I asked him 3 times and he kept replying with new complaints against FedEx instead... for example: "ma'am, fed ex was not at my house. they may have attempted a delivery at another location as fed ex in my area sucks" and "FEDEX is not waiting for me to do anything, I am waiting forfedex to deliver the package."

He also messaged me on ebay outside of the official claim during this time with hostile messages and lots of belittling "my dear" and "hun" were used. So I explained my case again about how he needs to contact fedex, that signature confirmation IS required by me for seller protection for transactions >$750, and that I stated economy shipping on my listing and it was shipped that way.

I don't know why he chose to message me outside of the claim? Maybe he didn't realize that when a case is opened and under review, that ALL of our messages on eBay will be reviewed? So I guess he thought he be nasty outside of the case? Anyway I couldn't take the names anymore so I also politely asked him to please stop it with the names because they're inappropriate and often construed as sexist and misogynistic to others.... guess what he replies....

"unfortunately, hun, I care little for social acceptance. moving forward, I personally do not care what methods you use with fedex. it was my job to be home when requested, and I was. when you work with fedex, please ask for some form of proof that they contacted me, or that they left a door tag at MY door. because, I am certain that they will say it was my door, however, I can say I will stop calling you hun and dear, but I wont bviously. meaning I lied or have just made a mistake. I would bet fedex just made a mistake. anyway being clear." and he just kept going on and on about how it's going to be shipped back to me, and that I'm going to have to refund him no matter what, he's going to file a credit card charge back, etc etc.

His story changed AGAIN? Now he's saying he was ALWAYS home? He told me he would NOT be at home several times!

I also took this time to message the seller (this seller is reputable and has over 980 feedback scores) who left our mutual buyer a positive feedback with negative comments (a transaction from 6 months ago).

Recap for those who weren't following the whole situation: I checked the buyer's feedback and one seller left him this: "BEWARE,ABUSED POLICY,RETURNED SMTH ELSE,ALREADY REPORTED TO EBAY,WANTED FREE". Unfortunately I didn't check the buyer's 100% positive feedback before I shipped the sold item

AND GUESS WHAT THE SELLER TELLS ME!!!:
"Hi, i already called eBay and did my report to them. First he said why did u send by post office. Then he replaced my item (250 dollar) with something else. He put something else in my box and returned it to me. And left negative feedback to me. You have to call eBay and report him. And also he has a friend he bought the same thing from me. I checked his address they live in same area. I cancel transaction. Cuz he wanted to do the same thing. Did he left feedback to you? If you leave the same feedback like me or something like that eBay is gonna close his account. Don't send him anything. Call eBay and report him. In case if open a case against you,you are not gonna lose. Thnx"

WOOOOOOW! So apparently this buyer hates fedex AND USPS? What??? A lot of the negative feedbacks that he leaves sellers (recap: he gave negative feedback to sellers 33% of all the transactions he's ever had!) pertain to shipping to the wrong address/changed shipping terms/never got my item! My guess is that he's just making up excuses that fit into whatever story he's spinning. And if it is true that the buyer swapped the item and filed an item not as described case... that is disgusting!!! How can people like that sleep at night???

Anyway, that aside... back to the main case filed against me on eBay:

The buyer decided to escalate the case to have eBay intervene last night. His claim: "seller recalled package and has signed for it. I was home every fedex delivery day and no attempt was made at my home to deliver. I have no google glas and no money I would like a refund, however seller thinks she gets the money and the un dlivered google glas."

He messaged me weeks ago stating that he would be on vacation/traveling/or whatever for the rest of the week which is why he can't pick it up.... now he's saying he was there every single time? What? So which is it???

eBay closed the case after... like 30 minutes... and in my favor!

I thought they'd have more questions to ask or something? They closed it pretty quickly... and told me they have decided that no refund should be given to the buyer and that there is nothing that I need to do. They also removed the negative feedback the buyer left me.

I'm shocked. Perhaps it was because the buyer's history of abusing policies is so evident? I'm going to be optimistic and believe that reporting buyers really does mean something. I'm just delighted that eBay actually protects their sellers! From what I've been reading around this forum and through google searches... it appears that there is certainly a trend where eBay sides with buyers! Sellers don't lose hope!!!!

I should be very happy... It's been a month that I've had being harassed by this guy, I woke up almost every day to a new hostile message from him. But I'm just not fully convinced he's going to take the resolution quietly.

I suppose for now I'm just going to block him from buying anything else from me... the other seller did say that one of his 'friends' or whatever in the same neighborhood tried to pull the same scam...

I keep thinking back... had I caved and removed that signature... this could have been soooo bad. I did think about it a few times in the beginning-- thinking maybe since he's requesting it and I have documented messages saying that it can't be held against me.... thank goodness I stuck with the hard policies instead.

Thank you TPFers for pointing me in the right direction! It was a terrifying process the entire way and having knowledgeable TPFers share their advice, opinions, and support really helped.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE block "wilritc". Nobody should have to go through what I did! I don't know that he'd be buying very many purses. It looks like he mainly buys high end tech items. But who knows!

I have no idea how his account still isn't suspended yet!

Another thought: I wonder if eBay decided to just refund both of us but chooses to keep that under wraps so word doesn't get out in fear of people abusing eBay to fork over money? I can see how that would keep buyers happy and sellers happy... both sides would still have faith in the "system" and word of it getting out won't be a problem because each of us are told that the other wouldn't have a refund?

Wow! What a nightmare! I'm glad ebay closed the case in your favor. I guess you'll find out if ebay refunded him as well when and if he opens a credit card claim.

 

[BeenBurned]

He also messaged me on ebay outside of the official claim during this time with hostile messages and lots of belittling "my dear" and "hun" were used.

*snip*


"unfortunately, hun, I care little for social acceptance.

*snip*

however, I can say I will stop calling you hun and dear, but I wont bviously. meaning I lied or have just made a mistake.

*snip*

I suppose for now I'm just going to block him from buying anything else from me... the other seller did say that one of his 'friends' or whatever in the same neighborhood tried to pull the same scam...

*snip*

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE block "wilritc". Nobody should have to go through what I did! I don't know that he'd be buying very many purses. It looks like he mainly buys high end tech items. But who knows!

Congratulations on your victory and your willingness and stamina to stand up to this guy.

BTW, is your buyer's name "*****?"