That's awesome, I thought patients, especially us foreigners, had no chance of recovering any money once we handed our money over. This should be a lesson to everyone to pay by credit card, even if it means not getting a cash discount.
Botched Rhinoplasty April31 Plastic Surgery Clinic
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Actually: There are options for cash payers and those are arbitration agencies, foreign patients do have rights even if they pay with cash under the assumption of safety- it's all about doing your research if you find yourself in a situation and taking responsibility for solving your problem, because majority of the time, the credit companies will not give your money back for plastic surgery, and just because you may have paid with a card instead of cash doesn't mean you will receive a refund if something goes wrong, so enforcing the incorrect notion that card payers are somehow "safe" is just not the truth, it's actually very far from the truth and you're liable in some ways if you suggest that patients only with cards and they're unable to recover funds after a failed outcome. My case is 1 out of 1000 cases, the other 999 never receive a refund. It's all about doing your research and being well-connected helps too; paying with a credit card is not the insurance, choosing an ethical clinic is the insurance. xx
I did not mean to suggest the credit card company will always rule in your favor but unlike cash you would at least have another party, one based in your own country, hearing your dispute.
Can you specify the arbitration agencies that you are referring to? I've spoken with another forum member going through this and an agency which I referenced before, the Korea Medical Dispute Mediation and Arbitration Agency
(https://www.k-medi.or.kr/eng/lay1/S239T385C386/contents.do), hasn't responded to her emails and perhaps more troubling they have some difficult requirements for foreigners to meet before they can submit a claim. You need a Korean bank account and any supporting documents you submit must be translated in Korean, I'm even even sure the former is possible for a foreigner not living in Korea? While they do have Chinese and English sections on their site, these things make me think their services are meant for locals.
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I went to the K-medi agency in person; you can use a Korean power of attorney if you choose to use K-medi, you don't have to live in Korea and there is an English version of their site; it's all about doing your own independent research, there are solutions to any problem if you actually do the work to find them (and if it's feasible). Almost any document can be translated using a free online document translator. I said all of that to say: Cash payers should never feel disenheartened if something goes wrong, they DO have options; it's all about doing your research, foreigners have rights, cash-payers have rights, whether they exercise those rights is up to them. Have a nice day! xx
Update:
1. Found out that dr Jae hoon kim removed my rib graft from my nose WITHOUT MY CONSENT. That’s a lawsuit.
2. my credit card company issued me a refund check after reviewing the additional documents(see evidence).
3. Having revision rhinoplasty surgery in December 2020. And revision genioplasty after that. Xx
I am happy at least you got some money back. No compensation is high enough for a botched surgery. You have to look at yourself in the mirror everyday and might affect your job performance and mental health. Good luck on your revision!!
How do you think about hanabi? They claim the doctor have 17 years experience and provide the health care after surgery.
I agree, no compensation is high enough- but, I also feel that if the clinic makes it right by 1. apologizing, 2. comping the surgery and related costs, 3. pays for revision surgery elsewhere plus whatever damages- that would be decent (April 31 didn't do that so now they've opened a whole new can of worms lol pathetic... and I have documentation of every bit of their antics; they also lied to my case manager about the price of the surgery- I was not even shocked or surprised that they lied & thought they would get away with it; they aren't very smart).
In the end it comes down to whether someone will allow a bad elective surgery outcome to destroy them and job performance or not... psychological issues are usually pre-existing or you're already genetically predisposed to that, although a misfortune may trigger certain traits like depressive episodes to manifest themselves. 9/10 people are already depressed and need psychiatric care or have confidence issues, and that's why they get surgeries (in my case, I was being greedy and ungrateful for what I already had- it was a waste of money and time to go under more surgeries after a satisfactory primary result- I laugh at it now but a lot of people aren't the position to laugh- they become depressed, or even die during the surgery, I'm so grateful that I escaped with my life because I have reason to believe the anesthesiologist at April31 doesn't attend the surgery the entire time; they lied about everything, so they probably lied about the anesthesia too).
Just happy I escaped with my life and no brain injuries... maybe April31 clinic did injure someone's brain during a surgery but the patient couldn't pursue them because they became disabled... you just never know. Ty for your well wishes xx
Idk about hanabi- 17 years seems like an exaggeration; they must be counting their entire college career, medical training, working under others, and then tacking on their actual years operating in their own practice (look up their biz license to see their years of operation and I would go by that instead of what the website says). Their actual years in their own practice is a more accurate representation. He can do a primary but almost any dr in korea can do that.
I would get in writing what they mean by "health" care, you know in korea the clinics lie to us lol,
April31 made all these claims about aftercare but in reality they lied about having a personal driver, lied about aftercare, they did give me deswelling shots though and they both got INFECTED where the nurse shot me in my bum and lower back, I could've gotten MRSA! Horrible near death experience. I still have 2 discolored spots with little bumbs from where she gave me the shots.
VIP is the only clinic I know of that provides anything remotely close to health care (but- someone said Dr. lee went against her surgery plan and did a surgery she didn't authorize/botched results multiple times even when he tries to fix it, so although he really tries to fix it if you don't like your outcome & he really cares- I'm not telling u to go there unless it's primary or no rib... they do have the best care though- no clinic can touch them when it comes to that),
hanabi stating "health" care just sounds very vague to me like they're just trying to get u in the door- get it in writing and let us know what they say that includes. xx
That's true, i think even the patient from Korea can't tell if they're lier or not. Korea gov. are doing a very good job to protect them from lawsuit/ bad
reputation. It's very dangerous as they have fake comment and patients. I beat 99% people can't tell the different if they are share to fake exp. or not.
Very true. There's a reason medical professionals tell us not to go to Korea for surgery. The Korean clinics have their minions everywhere leaving fake reviews, even on Reddit and it certain chat groups- they're all promoters/fake patients... It's all so weird and gross, highly unethical, and as you stated- dangerous.
Even my local Korean friend got botched 5 times, on the 6th time luckily she found someone to fix it (she had patchwork eyes or something before where the stitches were done like a kindergartner got a sewing kit and decided to give surgeries, and the eyelids they gave her were like surprised sausages), I think she kept listening to the fake reviews for the first 5 botched surgeries, and that's after she researched sooooo much, and then on the final time she jumped the gun out of desperation went to a clinic no one promotes and they fixed it for her in a last ditch effort. I'm surprised she can still blink normally.
When you think about it, no one is safe, no matter how much you research because most of the reviews are fake or done by promoters who receive free surgeries and discounts and if they lie- I know because April31 tried to do it to me and make me one of their "models" before they botched my surgeries; they also have model agreements which are ILLEGAL in korea.
And some peoples said ENT specialist is not a broad certify plastic surgery and its not safe. How do you think about it?
They're right, ENT's are not plastic surgeons. It's a very personal choice on whether you want a plastic surgeon to do your surgery or an ENT. Alot of people have poor results from ENT (an ENT is just a medical professional who took courses on how to do rhinoplasty, they can help you breathe better although their aesthetics may be off), plastic surgeons can give you a pretty nose that functions- IF you don't already have breathing problems, if you have breathing problems, some of them can't fix them 100%.
For primary I would go with an actual plastic surgeon, for revision- maybe ENT because their training is about the inside of the nose. In my current state (third surgery), I would be comfortable with either- they have to have exceptional aesthetic training and very good technical training.
ENTs should not be doing surgeries that involve aesthetics and passing themselves off as plastic surgeons- they are NOT plastic surgeons no matter how much they try to act like them, they can be certified on the ent board and on the plastic surgery board though, that would make them double board certified and that's a good thing.
As far as safety... I'm not sure, my first rhino was by a plastic surgeon in my country and it was successful, the second rhino was by a "plastic surgeon" in korea and it was horrible, an ENT would never have botched it whether it was in the US or Korea...
you just never know- getting surgery in korea is like more like buying a used car rather than getting surgery, choose the right used car dealer whether its ENT or plastic surgeon- your used car dealership has to be ethical. Just make sure if you get it done in Korea you are extra careful, for my surgeries in the US I just picked surgeons without consulting with anyone else and ignored bad office staff/ etc etc and had positive outcomes, for Korea I contacted multiple multiple clinics and you see the outcome, also, if there are any red flags like bad office staff/payment issues/feeling rushed, etc, even if you like the surgeon- take it as a warning and don't go there, 9 times out of 10, they won't keep you safe if something goes wrong. In the US you might be safer- even though the staffs could be sh*tty and had payment issues in the US, I didn't care because I got what I wanted and looked hot lol. You can't do that in Korea though (unless you just want something simple like an implant which Koreans are very good at)- you could die, get an infection, or end up with no nose like michael jackson and/or chunks of bone chopped off jawline that can never be replaced (unless you want a metal bionic jaw or prosthetic nose) if you ignore a red flag so take it seriously whether its ENT or Plastic surgeon.
As long as they make that clear that they are ENT and NOT plastic surgeon, I think it's ok to go forward (your nose will be larger but functional). ENT price should usually be lower than a rhino specialist plastic surgeons price because they don't have the same training (although in korea it looks like ENTs charge more, perhaps because ENTs are the ones that fix the botches so they feel like they can charge a premium price- and they should come to think of think of it because they fix horrible botches from other surgeons not just in Korea but from US as well). (Like when I met with Dr. Jin, who is an ENT (Confirmed when I was looking for plastic surgeon and Dr. Kim at eightps looked him up for me and confirmed he wasn't one of his board members), I knew for a fact Jin couldn't give me what I wanted aesthetically, although my breathing would be a lot better... I'm not a person who cares about price but paying 12k for that and then having to go get it fixed again because the look is not what I wanted- cheaper than what I would pay in my home country, but I would rather pay the high price and get most of what I want- no matter how much the surgery is- I want what I want and the outcome I'm looking for needs to be delivered whether that's $3000 or $30000). Plastic surgeon: pretty nose and sharp barbie nose/drastic, ENT: functional nose/v. v. natural (pretty nose IF you already have a good structure and thin skin- their best work is on thin skin patients if u notice, medium- so-so, thick:rarely... but you could luck up and find an ent who does the look you like). xx
you should ask his patients if they're willing to share photos. Although no doctor can make all of their patients happy, as I'm sure you know, doctors only share their best work, the only way to know their true work is to have friends who have been to the doctor you're interested in. I don't think it's ok for people to share other patients photos unless they consent for it so I'm not going to do that for you. Although some people are credible, you should not rely on people from purseforum to provide you with photos of other patients- that is not research. The person could lie, or they could be a promoter, so you should get your information directly from the source- don't be lazy; will have to put forth the effort, do the work, and do your own independent research so you can come to your own conclusion
xx