Authenticate This DOONEY & BOURKE

[Vlad]

Please post authenticity questions related to DOONEY & BOURKE in this thread.

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Item:
Listing number:
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[Hugapug]

UGH! I'm just sick now but thank you! Hopefully it will be a smooth return/destroy transaction.

I also noticed on the side straps, the rivets are on both sides on the authentic bag. On the counterfeit bag only on one side. Ugh, still sick about this. If anyone out there has a white/bone/cream R41 shopper for sale I would be interested.

 

[Catbird9]

Well I already paid, it's on it's way. However, she does accept returns Thank goodness. Let me know what else you find please. I couldn't see the difference in the feet. I could see the difference in the pockets inside. Is it possible that part was altered? The rivets are stamped with Dooney and Bourke. Oh I hope it is real, I love it!!

Hmmm. That's interesting.

Now I'm starting to wonder....

 

[BeenBurned]

UGH! I'm just sick now but thank you! Hopefully it will be a smooth return/destroy transaction.

If she doesn't agree to paying for the return and a full refund of your payment, open a SNAD dispute.

Fact is that whether she knew it or not, it was her responsibility to verify that she was selling an authentic item.

Truly a very close counterfeit! It even has a red white and blue sewn in label. The real one does not have a zipper closure across the top. Plus the different pockets and feet, already mentioned. Good sleuthing BeenBurned!

Another problem that's hard to see is that the handles don't come off. The bottom part has the "buttonhole" but the top is permanently attached.

Hmmm. That's interesting.

Now I'm starting to wonder....

I also noticed the engraved rivets too and thought the bag was genuine. But it was the feet that kept bugging me so I did more digging.

I'd be interested in seeing the serial number on the reverse side of the red, white and blue label. I've seen a lot of fakes with RWB tags but the fonts and number of characters on the serial number are never right.

In fact, someone commented on the ebay boards about never seeing a fake with a tag and a comp was posted.

This post has some side by side pictures showing differences between real and fake:
http://community.ebay.com/t5/Fashio...amp-Bourke/m-p/24862175/highlight/true#M66516

And these are a couple more pictures I saved in my files to show the difference between genuine and fake.

 

[BeenBurned]

Well after that disappointment I better have you check my other purchase if you would please. I really appreciate your time.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dooney-and-...anJT3SCCCUZwc1bP7Ryxw%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

That one is authentic.

 

[Hugapug]

Darn! I was hoping you might not have paid yet.

In this case, I can understand why the seller might have been fooled because it's a fairly close fake but the side by sides tell a different story.

If dlw2048 is smart, she'll just allow you to destroy the bag and will issue a full refund because the bag cannot be listed or sold. Unless she can return it for a refund, it would be a waste of money for the seller to pay for return shipping for a bag she can't do anything with. (In fact, feel free to refer her here.)

I notice her return policy requires buyers to pay return shipping. If she wants the bag back, since it's fake, she needs to pay the return shipping.

ADMIN: the seller is very upset that her call name is being used publicly on this site and is asking that it be removed. Thank you.

 

[BeenBurned]

It's one of the rules of the forum that on every authentication thread, the seller's ID, listing, title and other information be posted. It's done for all listings and sellers, authentic or not and done in order to help in searches of the forum.

Listing item numbers and seller IDs helps prevent duplicate authentication requests and also helps when sellers are repeat offenders.

 

[eyeoftheleopard]

ADMIN: the seller is very upset that her call name is being used publicly on this site and is asking that it be removed. Thank you.

We are very upset that she sold you a counterfeit bag. If she doesn't want to be called out do not sell counterfeit merchandise. Hopefully this will be a learning experience for her. I know it was for me.

Great sleuthing @BB and I agree with you 100% on your assessment of @hugapugs shopper. If it makes you feel any better I was zapped by this piece, too.����

 

[Hugapug]

That one is authentic.

Awesome! Thank you!

 

[Hugapug]

If she doesn't agree to paying for the return and a full refund of your payment, open a SNAD dispute.

Fact is that whether she knew it or not, it was her responsibility to verify that she was selling an authentic item.

Another problem that's hard to see is that the handles don't come off. The bottom part has the "buttonhole" but the top is permanently attached.


I also noticed the engraved rivets too and thought the bag was genuine. But it was the feet that kept bugging me so I did more digging.

I'd be interested in seeing the serial number on the reverse side of the red, white and blue label. I've seen a lot of fakes with RWB tags but the fonts and number of characters on the serial number are never right.

In fact, someone commented on the ebay boards about never seeing a fake with a tag and a comp was posted.

This post has some side by side pictures showing differences between real and fake:
http://community.ebay.com/t5/Fashio...amp-Bourke/m-p/24862175/highlight/true#M66516

And these are a couple more pictures I saved in my files to show the difference between genuine and fake.

She says it does not have a serial number on the back. I will let you know for sure when I get the bag.

 

[Hugapug]

We are very upset that she sold you a counterfeit bag. If she doesn't want to be called out do not sell counterfeit merchandise. Hopefully this will be a learning experience for her. I know it was for me.

Great sleuthing @BB and I agree with you 100% on your assessment of @hugapugs shopper. If it makes you feel any better I was zapped by this piece, too.����

I agree. I told her I would ask. I did. The seller is insisting it passed all the authenticity checks and that we are comparing it to a completely different bag. This is the response I got from her:

"One is considered a Shopping bag and the other considered a briefcase - they are different styles, different colors and probably different years of production. The different style of bag would dictate what kind of pockets it would have and if it had or needed a zipper or not. Different feet probably because they are different styles and/or production years. You say my bag is fake comparing it to a totally different bag - it meets all of the D&B criteria."
"There is no serial number on the back of the tag - if you will Google D&B Purses (and Coach) purses sold in department stores such as TJ Maxx and Marshalls you will see they are 100% authentic but the serial number was on a sticker put inside the purse. Also, will you please omit my call name when discussing our transaction on line with other people or forums. I take my eBay very seriously and it makes me look like I am a scam when I am truly a honest person."

It's a very uncomfortable situation at this point. Thanks for all your help!

 

[BeenBurned]

I agree. I told her I would ask. I did. The seller is insisting it passed all the authenticity checks and that we are comparing it to a completely different bag. This is the response I got from her:

"One is considered a Shopping bag and the other considered a briefcase - they are different styles, different colors and probably different years of production. The different style of bag would dictate what kind of pockets it would have and if it had or needed a zipper or not. Different feet probably because they are different styles and/or production years. You say my bag is fake comparing it to a totally different bag - it meets all of the D&B criteria."
"There is no serial number on the back of the tag - if you will Google D&B Purses (and Coach) purses sold in department stores such as TJ Maxx and Marshalls you will see they are 100% authentic but the serial number was on a sticker put inside the purse. Also, will you please omit my call name when discussing our transaction on line with other people or forums. I take my eBay very seriously and it makes me look like I am a scam when I am truly a honest person."

It's a very uncomfortable situation at this point. Thanks for all your help!

You didn't do a single thing wrong and have no reason to apologize to anyone. I hope it's not you who feels uncomfortable.

I have several comments in response to the message you received from dlw2048
1. I don't know what "passed all authenticity checks" means but clearly, it didn't pass all because it was determined to be fake.

And if dlw2048 can't see the differences in the side by side comparisons I posted, then she's in denial.

2. While some may use the bag as a briefcase (as many do with totes), the bag made by Dooney is called a tote. (A rose by any other name.....and all that.)

This particular style was NOT made in a similar briefcase style and if a briefcase, it wouldn't have had the small pocket that this one had! Briefcases tend to have larger and wider pockets because they hold pads of paper, portfolios, etc.

So her argument there holds no water.

3. The fact that there's no serial number on the back of the tag is another giveaway that the bag is fake.

Her comment about TJ's and Marshall's bags having stickers instead of stamped serial numbers also indicates a lack of knowledge.

When bags are new, the underside of the pocket may have a white sticker with style information on it but that info is NOT a serial number and those stickers often fall off. But there's also a permanent unique serial number stamped on the back of the red, white and blue tag.

In all my years of handling and authenticating Dooneys, I've only seen one case where an authentic bag was missing the stamped serial number. And that case was human error where someone forgot to stamp it while it went down the production line.

4. No one is accusing dlw2048 of being a scammer and in fact, several of us commented on what a close fake it was and how this mistake was understandable.

But the fact that she continues to argue an indisputable fact is a reaction often seen when a seller is upset that she was 'caught.'


There's nothing wrong with buying items for resale but unless one is expert, they need to verify that the item is authentic. There are boards such as this one and ebay's fashion board and there are professional authentication services such as Authenticate4U (and possibly others) who have a Dooney specialist and you can pay for an authentication.

 

[Hugapug]

You didn't do a single thing wrong and have no reason to apologize to anyone. I hope it's not you who feels uncomfortable.

I have several comments in response to the message you received from dlw2048
1. I don't know what "passed all authenticity checks" means but clearly, it didn't pass all because it was determined to be fake.

And if dlw2048 can't see the differences in the side by side comparisons I posted, then she's in denial.

2. While some may use the bag as a briefcase (as many do with totes), the bag made by Dooney is called a tote. (A rose by any other name.....and all that.)

This particular style was NOT made in a similar briefcase style and if a briefcase, it wouldn't have had the small pocket that this one had! Briefcases tend to have larger and wider pockets because they hold pads of paper, portfolios, etc.

So her argument there holds no water.

3. The fact that there's no serial number on the back of the tag is another giveaway that the bag is fake.

Her comment about TJ's and Marshall's bags having stickers instead of stamped serial numbers also indicates a lack of knowledge.

When bags are new, the underside of the pocket may have a white sticker with style information on it but that info is NOT a serial number and those stickers often fall off. But there's also a permanent unique serial number stamped on the back of the red, white and blue tag.

In all my years of handling and authenticating Dooneys, I've only seen one case where an authentic bag was missing the stamped serial number. And that case was human error where someone forgot to stamp it while it went down the production line.

4. No one is accusing dlw2048 of being a scammer and in fact, several of us commented on what a close fake it was and how this mistake was understandable.

But the fact that she continues to argue an indisputable fact is a reaction often seen when a seller is upset that she was 'caught.'


There's nothing wrong with buying items for resale but unless one is expert, they need to verify that the item is authentic. There are boards such as this one and ebay's fashion board and there are professional authentication services such as Authenticate4U (and possibly others) who have a Dooney specialist and you can pay for an authentication.

Plus were these bags even sold in Ross or TJ max at that time? Did those store even exist then? By uncomfortable I meant she said I was calling her bag a fake, I said the experts are. She asked for all the reasons why it wasn't authentic, i sent her the photos and she said she couldn't see the differences so I listed them. That's when she said it was being compared to the wrong bag. I have asked her several times to produce and share her research and she hasn't. She said it was being compared to the wrong bag and I asked to show me a different bag it should be compared to and she didn't. Dang I wish that bag was authentic, it is everything I was looking for, except the authenticity! Again, thank you for everyone's support!!

 

[BeenBurned]

Plus were these bags even sold in Ross or TJ max at that time? Did those store even exist then? By uncomfortable I meant she said I was calling her bag a fake, I said the experts are. She asked for all the reasons why it wasn't authentic, i sent her the photos and she said she couldn't see the differences so I listed them. That's when she said it was being compared to the wrong bag. I have asked her several times to produce and share her research and she hasn't. She said it was being compared to the wrong bag and I asked to show me a different bag it should be compared to and she didn't. Dang I wish that bag was authentic, it is everything I was looking for, except the authenticity! Again, thank you for everyone's support!!

Again, you spent a lot of money on a bag and you came here to learn whether you got what you paid for.

It's clear you liked the bag and hoped it would be deemed authentic but unfortunately, that wasn't to be. That certainly isn't your "fault," nor is it the fault of those who authenticate.

Any "fault" in this transaction lies with dlw2048 because she didn't do her due diligence in verifying authenticity before listing her bag! Obviously she didn't buy the bag from an authorized Dooney retailer because it's absolutely and undeniably fake.

Clearly your seller isn't an expert and for her to make excuses, explain away differences by saying we're comparing different styles of bags and not be willing and open to learning implies that maybe she knew her bag was fake and hoped to get away with selling it and not getting caught.

Could dlw2048 even have looked at the comparison pictures I posted? As I said at the getgo, this is a close fake so the differences aren't as obvious as some comps but the pictures clearly show major differences when looking at a fake vs. authentic bag side-by-side.

If she doesn't see the differences in post #6284, these marked up pictures should help.



http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...w.ebay.com/usr/dlw2048?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

 

[Catbird9]

Again, you spent a lot of money on a bag and you came here to learn whether you got what you paid for.

It's clear you liked the bag and hoped it would be deemed authentic but unfortunately, that wasn't to be. That certainly isn't your "fault," nor is it the fault of those who authenticate.

Any "fault" in this transaction lies with dlw2048 because she didn't do her due diligence in verifying authenticity before listing her bag! Obviously she didn't buy the bag from an authorized Dooney retailer because it's absolutely and undeniably fake.

Clearly your seller isn't an expert and for her to make excuses, explain away differences by saying we're comparing different styles of bags and not be willing and open to learning implies that maybe she knew her bag was fake and hoped to get away with selling it and not getting caught.

Could dlw2048 even have looked at the comparison pictures I posted? As I said at the getgo, this is a close fake so the differences aren't as obvious as some comps but the pictures clearly show major differences when looking at a fake vs. authentic bag side-by-side.

If she doesn't see the differences in post #6284, these marked up pictures should help.

The labelled side-by-side pictures leave no doubt, the white bag is fake.

The seller is correct on one point. Yes, we are comparing different bags...one is authentic, the other is fake!

 

[BeenBurned]

The seller is correct on one point. Yes, we are comparing different bags...one is authentic, the other is fake!

Hmmm. I wonder if the seller believes you (and us) now. Ebay removed the listing.