Authenticate This COACH - **see first post for format**

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#47,869
IMPORTANT READ-ME

Please post authenticity questions related to COACH in this thread. No PMs please.
For further information, please refer to the first post on page 1 of this thread.

Please follow the following requests:
  • Before you submit a request for authentication, please search this thread to make sure that the item has not previously been authenticated by searching the seller ID and/or item number. This is not a thread to ask general questions about COACH, please refer to our main Coach forum for such information.
  • Note that authenticators have the right to refuse any requests. This is a free service, but it is imperative that you help our authenticators by using the following format:
  • FOR ITEMS LISTED ONLINE:
    Item:
    Listing number:
    Seller and site where listed
    Link:
    Comments:

  • FOR ITEMS NOT LISTED ONLINE:
    Item:
    Where purchased or how obtained
    Comments:
BASIC PICTURES REQUIRED (but more may be requested): If necessary pictures are in the listing, it's not necessary to upload and duplicate them.
  • Front of item
  • Back of item
  • Full clear and legible creed text and serial number
  • Made in tags (when available)
  • Measurements
  • For bags with turnlock closures, show pictures of back of female side of turnlock
  • For bags with magnetic snaps, show pictures of the male part of the snap so that the numbers and letters on it can be read
  • If applicable, search interior of bag and/or pockets for small white tag with production information and include a picture of that.
Thank you and be safe!
 
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#14,386
catthecurious said:
I just looked at the measurements again, and the only thing that clearly is off is the depth, the lenght/hight measures look quite proportionate to me. I just sent the seller this question, because I haven't received any shipping info from her yet - if the strap is missing, but the bag hasn't been shipped yet, it would be easier to cancel the transaction.
Click to expand...

I'm casting my vote for the early Dinky (with the grommeted holes for the removable strap). Below are photos of a pre-creed one that dates from the early 1970s (cartouche imprint). It measures 9" wide x 5" high x 1-3/4" deep. The proportions look quite similar to the pictures in the listing.
 

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#14,387
RL Bernstein said:
I'm casting my vote for the early Dinky (with the grommeted holes for the removable strap). Below are photos of a pre-creed one that dates from the early 1970s (cartouche imprint). It measures 9" wide x 5" high x 1-3/4" deep. The proportions look quite similar to the pictures in the listing.
Click to expand...

It's a lovely bag, too bad if that's the case with my auction, it would be nearly impossible to get the replacement strap at a reasonable price :(
 
#14,388
catthecurious said:
It's a lovely bag, too bad if that's the case with my auction, it would be nearly impossible to get the replacement strap at a reasonable price :(
Click to expand...
Indeed, both the special lobster claw required to fit the small grommets (or the special dog leash clips I have on other similarly configured bags) would be next to impossible to locate. Probably better to cancel the order before the seller purchases the shipping label.
 
#14,389
RL Bernstein said:
Indeed, both the special lobster claw required to fit the small grommets (or the special dog leash clips I have on other similarly configured bags) would be next to impossible to locate. Probably better to cancel the order before the seller purchases the shipping label.
Click to expand...

That's my plan B - still waiting for the seller's response. I'll post un update to this mystery when I have more info. And thanks for the pictures, RL, I haven't seen the bags with that kind of grommets before.
 
#14,390
catthecurious said:
That's my plan B - still waiting for the seller's response. I'll post un update to this mystery when I have more info. And thanks for the pictures, RL, I haven't seen the bags with that kind of grommets before.
Click to expand...

There was also a precursor to the #9635 Convertible Clutch that had this arrangement. The red one shown just came off my bench. It measures 11" wide x 7" high x 3" deep and (as it has a small black metal COACH tag on the interior) is slightly older than the blue Dinky precursor previously shown. Another interesting thing about this particular design is that it has still has the finished seams (no binding or exposed edges) common to the late 1960s designs as opposed to the bound edges of most later designs or the exposed and edge painted edges of some of the earlier designs.
 

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#14,391
RL Bernstein said:
There was also a precursor to the #9635 Convertible Clutch that had this arrangement. The red one shown just came off my bench. It measures 11" wide x 7" high x 3" deep and (as it has a small black metal COACH tag on the interior) is slightly older than the blue Dinky precursor previously shown. Another interesting thing about this particular design is that it has still has the finished seams (no binding or exposed edges) common to the late 1960s designs as opposed to the bound edges of most later designs or the exposed and edge painted edges of some of the earlier designs.
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting. I haven't seen this one before.
 
#14,392
whateve said:
That's what I suspected as well.
Click to expand...

RL Bernstein said:
I'm casting my vote for the early Dinky (with the grommeted holes for the removable strap). Below are photos of a pre-creed one that dates from the early 1970s (cartouche imprint). It measures 9" wide x 5" high x 1-3/4" deep. The proportions look quite similar to the pictures in the listing.
Click to expand...

Catbird9 said:
Pure speculation: I'm thinking the seller's measurements are incorrect. I think it's an early Dinky with grommets where the strap was attached. It will be interesting to see what you get!
Click to expand...


You all were right - and thank you, Catbird, for being the first one to voice your suspicions. The seller wrote to me that "the clutch is fine and yes, there're tiny rings on the sides". I'm wondering what she thinks the rings are for? Anyway, I'm glad you guys helped me to catch this on time and save from eventual disappointment. It turns out eBay doesn't allow auction cancellation after one hour of its end, and now it all depends on the seller. I emailed to her, explained the situation and added a picture of a Dinky with the strap. What a strange rule - eBay tells me the item has been shipped when I know for a fact that it has not, and the seller hasn't created the shipping label yet! Anyway, just wanted to post the update, I really hope cancelling the order won't be very time consuming.
 
#14,393
catthecurious said:
You all were right - and thank you, Catbird, for being the first one to voice your suspicions. The seller wrote to me that "the clutch is fine and yes, there're tiny rings on the sides". I'm wondering what she thinks the rings are for? Anyway, I'm glad you guys helped me to catch this on time and save from eventual disappointment. It turns out eBay doesn't allow auction cancellation after one hour of its end, and now it all depends on the seller. I emailed to her, explained the situation and added a picture of a Dinky with the strap. What a strange rule - eBay tells me the item has been shipped when I know for a fact that it has not, and the seller hasn't created the shipping label yet! Anyway, just wanted to post the update, I really hope cancelling the order won't be very time consuming.
Click to expand...

I hope the seller bites the bullet and simply issues a refund. Not showing or mentioning those grommets could have left her open to a SNAD claim especially since the bag can't function as it was originally designed to without the kind of strap designed for it.

Thank you RL Bernstein, for the information on the strap clips being unique for that type of fastening. That never occured to me until you posted the photos showing the different shapes of both types of clips but now it's easy to see why it's necessary. When we first started finding out about those early bags with the grommeted strap fasteners I'd wondered if the standard Coach clips woulld even fit correctly and if they would rub against the leather or allow any strap movement, but the special design for those bag styles explains it. Your expertise is appreciated very much!

If you get a chance, could you post a photo of the two styles of clips? I don't thing I've ever even seen that second lobster-claw type before. Thanks!
 
#14,394
Hyacinth said:
I hope the seller bites the bullet and simply issues a refund. Not showing or mentioning those grommets could have left her open to a SNAD claim especially since the bag can't function as it was originally designed to without the kind of strap designed for it.

Thank you RL Bernstein, for the information on the strap clips being unique for that type of fastening. That never occured to me until you posted the photos showing the different shapes of both types of clips but now it's easy to see why it's necessary. When we first started finding out about those early bags with the grommeted strap fasteners I'd wondered if the standard Coach clips woulld even fit correctly and if they would rub against the leather or allow any strap movement, but the special design for those bag styles explains it. Your expertise is appreciated very much!

If you get a chance, could you post a photo of the two styles of clips? I don't thing I've ever even seen that second lobster-claw type before. Thanks!
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I agree, that info was very important, and I appreciate RL's input very much. It turns out the bag has been picked up already, and now I'll have to send it back. I so hope it won't be too difficult to get a refund along with shipping included; the seller seems to be offensive and said that I can send it back but she stated multiple times that there's no strap. That's right - there's no strap, but she was also misleading by saying that "the bag does not come with straps" and "this is a clutch bag; no strap". I'm always trying to avoid potential conflicts and be as patient with the sellers as possible as I'm an occasional seller myself and know what it's like to be on the other side of the fence, but it's hard to deal with people who refuse admitting their mistakes.
 
#14,395
catthecurious said:
I agree, that info was very important, and I appreciate RL's input very much. It turns out the bag has been picked up already, and now I'll have to send it back. I so hope it won't be too difficult to get a refund along with shipping included; the seller seems to be offensive and said that I can send it back but she stated multiple times that there's no strap. That's right - there's no strap, but she was also misleading by saying that "the bag does not come with straps" and "this is a clutch bag; no strap". I'm always trying to avoid potential conflicts and be as patient with the sellers as possible as I'm an occasional seller myself and know what it's like to be on the other side of the fence, but it's hard to deal with people who refuse admitting their mistakes.
Click to expand...
Important caveat: Do not refuse the package without accepting it. RTS (return to sender) negates your buyer protection.

Accept the package, open it and request the seller to forward a prepaid return shipping label. If she refuses, open SNAD and it should be an easy victory for you, especially if you include the pictures showing what it's supposed to look like.

While the seller may not have purposely been deceptive, for her to be "offended" is nuts! Whether she knew or not that the bag was supposed to have a strap is irrelevant; she's supposed to know what she's selling! Many of us buy items on the secondary market and resell but we do our best to research and be accurate in our listings.

Perhaps referring your seller here, showing her the posts with what the bag is supposed to look like and offering constructive criticism so she won't make similar mistakes in the future might help.

We're all human, we all err and we try to learn from our mistakes.

Again, here's the listing and seller:
britishdeborah10

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Genuine-Tan-Leather-Coach-Purse-Handbag-/371594559751?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=TKTa7e%252F7KyHBEL5qRJWNzY1e4TQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&rmvSB=true

Note the Q&A -- she SHOULD have specified that it has (and shown pictures of) the rings on the sides!

Q: Does it have shoulder straps? Thanks.
A: Sorry this bag does not come with straps.
Apr 09, 2016

Q: Does this come with the strap?
A: Sorry, there is no strap.
Apr 08, 2016

Q: Does the purse have a strap or is it a clutch? Thank you.
A: Hi, It is a clutch bag; no strap. Thank you
Apr 07, 2016

ETA: IMO, this seller needs to make sure she knows what she's selling. It looks like there have been more than a few mistakes!
http://toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=britishdeborah10&Dirn=Received+by&ref=home
 
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#14,396
BeenBurned said:
Important caveat: Do not refuse the package without accepting it. RTS (return to sender) negates your buyer protection.

Accept the package, open it and request the seller to forward a prepaid return shipping label. If she refuses, open SNAD and it should be an easy victory for you, especially if you include the pictures showing what it's supposed to look like.

While the seller may not have purposely been deceptive, for her to be "offended" is nuts! Whether she knew or not that the bag was supposed to have a strap is irrelevant; she's supposed to know what she's selling! Many of us buy items on the secondary market and resell but we do our best to research and be accurate in our listings.

Perhaps referring your seller here, showing her the posts with what the bag is supposed to look like and offering constructive criticism so she won't make similar mistakes in the future might help.

We're all human, we all err and we try to learn from our mistakes.

Again, here's the listing and seller:
britishdeborah10

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Gen...JWNzY1e4TQ%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&rmvSB=true

Note the Q&A -- she SHOULD have specified that it has (and shown pictures of) the rings on the sides!

Q: Does it have shoulder straps? Thanks.
A: Sorry this bag does not come with straps.
Apr 09, 2016

Q: Does this come with the strap?
A: Sorry, there is no strap.
Apr 08, 2016

Q: Does the purse have a strap or is it a clutch? Thank you.
A: Hi, It is a clutch bag; no strap. Thank you
Apr 07, 2016

ETA: IMO, this seller needs to make sure she knows what she's selling. It looks like there have been more than a few mistakes!
http://toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=britishdeborah10&Dirn=Received+by&ref=home
Click to expand...


I didn't know that detail about not accepting the package (although I wasn't planning to go this route, but that's good to know, anyway). Thank you, BeenBurned! I'm usually being careful about my eBay purchases, especially when buying used, but I guess you can't calculate all the potential scenarios. I looked at her feedback before bidding, but I'm well aware of "customers from hell" and know they can happen to the best of sellers. I admire sellers who manage to have 100% positive feedback, but I'm also aware that in many cases they compromise even when the buyer is clearly wrong, only for the sake of their immaculate record.


The seller isn't refusing to issue the refund and she doesn't insist there was never a strap, but she doesn't seem to see what the real problem was. I'm not going to stress it's her fault as usually it only creates more tension, and I agree we're all human and that's what I tried to tell her; I also suggested if she decides to relist the bag, she should probably mention upfront the strap is missing and the bag came into her possession like that, and add a picture of the side view. But again, that's not my business to teach her proper manners. That's a good idea about requesting a prepaid shipping label from her, BeenBurned, and if she's a reasonable person, she would choose that rather than me opening SNAD - and, like I said, I don't want to create unnecessary problems if there's a peaceful way to resolve the issue. But I'm also prepared to go via eBay if necessary.
 
#14,399
#14,400
Hyacinth said:
If you get a chance, could you post a photo of the two styles of clips? I don't thing I've ever even seen that second lobster-claw type before. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Here are photos of the two styles of bags (early Convertible Clutch and early Dinky) I currently have that employ grommet holes for attaching straps, along with closeups of the dog leash and lobster claw style fittings. As I may have mentioned, the red bag is identified with the small black metal COACH tag commonly used from the late 1960s - about 1971, whereas the navy bag is identified with the COACH cartouche imprint typical I believe of pre-creed bags made during 1971-1973.

You'll see that the hook portions of the fitting are tapered so that they can be installed in the rather small diameter holes of the grommets and that the opening provide sufficient vertical clearance to minimize rubbing the leather edge of the bag. I've seen bags where folks appear to have endeavored to "customize" a standard dog leash fitting for this purpose. Unfortunately, it seems as though that arrangement provides inadequate clearance and inevitable leads to wearing out the (binding or finished) edge of the bag.
 

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