Authenticate This COACH - **see first post for format**

[Vlad]

IMPORTANT READ-ME

Please post authenticity questions related to COACH in this thread. No PMs please.
For further information, please refer to the first post on page 1 of this thread.

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BASIC PICTURES REQUIRED (but more may be requested): If necessary pictures are in the listing, it's not necessary to upload and duplicate them.

• Front of item
• Back of item
• Full clear and legible creed text and serial number
• Made in tags (when available)
• Measurements
• For bags with turnlock closures, show pictures of back of female side of turnlock
• For bags with magnetic snaps, show pictures of the male part of the snap so that the numbers and letters on it can be read
• If applicable, search interior of bag and/or pockets for small white tag with production information and include a picture of that.

Thank you and be safe!

 

[RL Bernstein]

It was called a Large Tote, style 9780, made between late 1986 and the beginning of 1988.

Thanks for both the ID and accompanying catalog page. A welcome addition for my expanding files.

 

[RL Bernstein]

Here are some authentic H-plant creeds:

Thanks. I believe that I see some of the consistent quirks (such as the larger plant code H, the extended hyphen, and the location of the style numbers). You (can) learn something new every day.

 

[RL Bernstein]

If it had this kind of strap it was a Girlie Nappa Hobo 8165, fourth from the left. The Girlie bags were like a sample set of every type of leather and fabric Coach was using at the time or even thinking of using in the future. The picture shows only a small fraction of the different Girlie Hobo styles they made, I counted at least 35 based just on an incomplete list of style numbers..

Thanks. Quite informative and I suppose an interesting way to present the full range of materials.

Though I do recall the extraordinary feel and the color (a burgundy tending to red), I don't remember the exact style I had in my possession since it was picked up purely to examine the leather. It was back in the day when I was trying to compare and contrast the various hides that were or had been in use. The wide range of thicknesses, processes, feel, textures, and variety of animals hides employed made for an interesting informal and very unscientific study.

 

[RL Bernstein]

Are you sure? I'd like to see the creed of your 2000 stewardess. Different plants switched over to the new creeds at different times but none took that long. The wording changed when they started putting the place of manufacture in the body of the creed rather than along the bottom.

I didn't realize that these photos failed to upload with the previous quick reply (some extension error). I hope that they satisfy your curiosity and that'll you'll share your observations.

 

[RL Bernstein]

The C plant had stopped using the old "scars, scratches, veins and wrinkles" creed stamp by about April of 1995 according to the photos I've saved. I don't know if they would have kept the actual stamping plate or mechanism or returned it to the main office, but I can't imagine it being hauled out 4 years later for any reason. C0ach had several stamps that were "floaters" and could be air-expressed to a plant that needed a quick replacement. Even though the C plant was probably closed some time in 2000 it was still one of their main production locations in 1999 and would have has whatever equipment they needed, at least until the new Chinese plants needed it more..

Of course, when employees know that they will be losing their jobs to cheap foreign labor within a year they've been known to do some odd and sometimes nasty things (take it from someone who was selling Chrysler products in the 1980s!) but playing games with an outdated creed stamp doesn't seem likely.

Thanks for the input. And you're right about strange things happening when production facilities are knowingly counting down the days, regardless of industry. I can't begin tell you the stories from back in the 1980s when a company I did some work for was "transitioning" work from CT down south to AL. Not a good time for quite a few folks who had either made or were starting their careers, and it showed in their work when the realization of the situation set in.

 

[Hyacinth]

I didn't realize that these photos failed to upload with the previous quick reply (some extension error). I hope that they satisfy your curiosity and that'll you'll share your observations.

Both of those are ok and that's the correct creed wording and C plant font for bags made in the US in 1999 and 2000. If they had mentioned "scars, scratches..." or listed the country of manufacture separately at the bottom of the creed, then there would be a problem. Was there a different Stew you were worried about?

 

[RL Bernstein]

Both of those are ok and that's the correct creed wording and C plant font for bags made in the US in 1999 and 2000. If they had mentioned "scars, scratches..." or listed the country of manufacture separately at the bottom of the creed, then there would be a problem. Was there a different Stew you were worried about?

I'm sorry. Must be having a senior citizen moment. Someone recently had asked a question about a NYC-made 9170 Classic Pouch and I was quoting the creed tag to them when they also asked about my experience with the rigidity and hand of the leathers seen on the various releases of the Stewardess bag. So somehow I managed to interchange elements of both even when the photos were right in front of me. Amazing that the mind sees what it wants to see. Either that, or I need a new pair of glasses. I apologize for the confusion I generated by starting this wild goose chase, but am pleased to learn that these Stewardess creeds are okay.

 

[Hyacinth]

Here are some authentic H-plant creeds:

Thanks. I believe that I see some of the consistent quirks (such as the larger plant code H, the extended hyphen, and the location of the style numbers). You (can) learn something new every day.

The "H" plant stamp code might have been a "floater. We've seen it used in regular production bags but also in a few apparent sample bags which might have been made in the small work area that was left at the original location in NYC after most of the plant had been converted to corporate offices. They usually date from around 1998.

I gambled and bought a messenger bag with an A8H-0000 serial and style number that was one of the codes Coach used for samples, and it's definitely a genuine Coach although it doesn't seem like they ever produced it, see the pics below. It's beautifully made, and the leather is "like buttah". The fonts in the serial number are different (the serial stamp was probably inherited from a defunct plant) but the creed stamp itself seems the same when you make allowances for two more years of wear and tear. Since the pre-China stamping sets were separate pieces and the serial stamps could be changed to show almost infinite number and letter combinations, we always have to allow for the possibility of changes to one or the other during production. And that clump of plant codes between G and M seemed to get passed around quite a bit.

 

[RL Bernstein]

The "H" plant stamp code might have been a "floater. We've seen it used in regular production bags but also in a few apparent sample bags which might have been made in the small work area that was left at the original location in NYC after most of the plant had been converted to corporate offices. They usually date from around 1998.

I gambled and bought a messenger bag with a -0000 style number that was one of the codes Coach used for samples, and it's definitely a genuine Coach although it doesn't seem like they ever produced it, see the pics below. It's beautifully made, and the leather is "like buttah". The fonts in the serial number are different (the serial stamp was probably inherited from a defunct plant) but the creed stamp itself seems the same when you make allowances for two more years of wear and tear. Since the pre-China stamping sets were separate pieces and the serial stamps could be changed to show almost infinite number and letter combinations, we always have to allow for the possibility of changes to one or the other during production. And that clump of plant codes between G and M seemed to get passed around quite a bit.

That's certainly interesting. And sometimes I wonder exactly where the G-L "plants" exactly were. You're probably correct in identifying them as possible floater plates. After all, didn't the commonly seen codes like A, B, C, D, E, N, P, U, Z (not to mention the Turkish 2 and I) all have physical locations? As for the country hopping M plant, well I'm confident that's a story in and of itself. And was the F plant a garment-making facility?

 

[Ravvie99]

Could I please get an authentication on this Goodwill purchase? Thank you!

Item: Prairie bag
Seller: Goodwill
Dimensions:7H, 10W, 3D
Comments: creed pic best represents true color

 

[Hyacinth]

That's certainly interesting. And sometimes I wonder exactly where the G-L "plants" exactly were. You're probably correct in identifying them as possible floater plates. After all, didn't the commonly seen codes like A, B, C, D, E, N, P, U, Z (not to mention the Turkish 2 and I) all have physical locations? As for the country hopping M plant, well I'm confident that's a story in and of itself. And was the F plant a garment-making facility?

Exactly! "M" seems to be the champ when it comes to miles traveled, that code has even been spotted more than once in 2 different countries within the same calendar month.

It seems likely that many of those plants that can't be pinned down weren't owned by Coach. They probably were local manufacturers who Coach contracted to produce a few lines or x number of bags as the need arose. Even Coach wouldn't have been able to afford actually owning and running all those plants. They also liked to use craftspeople from Central and South America and a few Caribbean countries when possible, many of their original handbag workers at the NYC plant were from Argentina and other Western Hemisphere countries with a strong tradition of leather crafting.

I'm not sure if all the offshore plants (we're talking pre-China of course) were all in "hard" locations or if maybe the country's plant codes were passed around to whatever production partner in that country had the experience and production capability to meet Coach's requirements at the time. The Italy bags may have been the same plant all the way through and they definitely were the only one using the "E" plant code. Coach never really divulged where any of the plants were located other than the country, and they even included the Puerto Rico plant as one of the US code numbers, possibly C or D. "B" may have originally been Miami since that's the first plant I've seen mentioned after NYC.

The J plant AFAIK only did clothing, below is one of the jackets from 1996, D6J-0964 from that plant. There's NO way that plant would have been making leather coats AND leather bags in the same month. Handbags with D6J- prefixes usually have other problems too.

ETA - I've been trying to post a pic of the creed and serial from the jacket, but the photo updownloader here is throwing hissy fits and telling me I already posted it. It did the same thing with an earlier post and the only other time I'd posted that photo was TWO years ago in a different forum! Off to post a bug report...

 

[whateve]

That's certainly interesting. And sometimes I wonder exactly where the G-L "plants" exactly were. You're probably correct in identifying them as possible floater plates. After all, didn't the commonly seen codes like A, B, C, D, E, N, P, U, Z (not to mention the Turkish 2 and I) all have physical locations? As for the country hopping M plant, well I'm confident that's a story in and of itself. And was the F plant a garment-making facility?

We've seen a few business items, such as briefcases, with F plant codes.

 

[Hyacinth]

Could I please get an authentication on this Goodwill purchase? Thank you!

Item: Prairie bag
Seller: Goodwill
Dimensions:7H, 10W, 3D
Comments: creed pic best represents true color

Genuine, made in 1996

 

[Ravvie99]

Genuine, made in 1996

Yay! Thank you Hyacinth! My first red

 

[Hyacinth]

Yay! Thank you Hyacinth! My first red

And it won't be your last! Red leather Coaches are habit-forming.