Authenticate This COACH - **see first post for format**

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#47,869
IMPORTANT READ-ME

Please post authenticity questions related to COACH in this thread. No PMs please.
For further information, please refer to the first post on page 1 of this thread.

Please follow the following requests:
  • Before you submit a request for authentication, please search this thread to make sure that the item has not previously been authenticated by searching the seller ID and/or item number. This is not a thread to ask general questions about COACH, please refer to our main Coach forum for such information.
  • Note that authenticators have the right to refuse any requests. This is a free service, but it is imperative that you help our authenticators by using the following format:
  • FOR ITEMS LISTED ONLINE:
    Item:
    Listing number:
    Seller and site where listed
    Link:
    Comments:

  • FOR ITEMS NOT LISTED ONLINE:
    Item:
    Where purchased or how obtained
    Comments:
BASIC PICTURES REQUIRED (but more may be requested): If necessary pictures are in the listing, it's not necessary to upload and duplicate them.
  • Front of item
  • Back of item
  • Full clear and legible creed text and serial number
  • Made in tags (when available)
  • Measurements
  • For bags with turnlock closures, show pictures of back of female side of turnlock
  • For bags with magnetic snaps, show pictures of the male part of the snap so that the numbers and letters on it can be read
  • If applicable, search interior of bag and/or pockets for small white tag with production information and include a picture of that.
Thank you and be safe!
 
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#72,331
Hyacinth said:
Consumer Protection Departments aren't responsible for preventing the sale of counterfeits, AFAIK. copyright and trademark violations are against Federal law and even if a state also has anti-counterfeiting laws on the books, I've never heard of a state getting involved.

As for federal law, the copyright holder is the entity that has to initiate legal action since it's their legally protected copyright or trademark that's been violated. Someone who bought a fake bag might have recourse on a local level through their police department, but I doubt if most lawyers would get involved with something like that unless it was a major crime spree rather than an individual seller. The only times I've heard of Coach ever getting involved have been when they've taken action to close down copycat websites that use Coach's trademarks or name. If they've taken action against counterfeits manufacturers (almost impossible since most if not all of them are outside the US, the last examples I recall are their lawsuits against Korean fakes manufacturers back in the 1990s) or distributors I haven't heard any information or details.

At least this is how I'm understanding it from what I've read over the years. If anyone who's actually an attorney who deals with US Anti-counterfeiting laws can correct me, I would like to get correct information.
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Hyacinth said:
Consumer Protection Departments aren't responsible for preventing the sale of counterfeits, AFAIK. copyright and trademark violations are against Federal law and even if a state also has anti-counterfeiting laws on the books, I've never heard of a state getting involved.

As for federal law, the copyright holder is the entity that has to initiate legal action since it's their legally protected copyright or trademark that's been violated. Someone who bought a fake bag might have recourse on a local level through their police department, but I doubt if most lawyers would get involved with something like that unless it was a major crime spree rather than an individual seller. The only times I've heard of Coach ever getting involved have been when they've taken action to close down copycat websites that use Coach's trademarks or name. If they've taken action against counterfeits manufacturers (almost impossible since most if not all of them are outside the US, the last examples I recall are their lawsuits against Korean fakes manufacturers back in the 1990s) or distributors I haven't heard any information or details.

At least this is how I'm understanding it from what I've read over the years. If anyone who's actually an attorney who deals with US Anti-counterfeiting laws can correct me, I would like to get correct information.
Click to expand...
Hyacinth said:
Consumer Protection Departments aren't responsible for preventing the sale of counterfeits, AFAIK. copyright and trademark violations are against Federal law and even if a state also has anti-counterfeiting laws on the books, I've never heard of a state getting involved.

As for federal law, the copyright holder is the entity that has to initiate legal action since it's their legally protected copyright or trademark that's been violated. Someone who bought a fake bag might have recourse on a local level through their police department, but I doubt if most lawyers would get involved with something like that unless it was a major crime spree rather than an individual seller. The only times I've heard of Coach ever getting involved have been when they've taken action to close down copycat websites that use Coach's trademarks or name. If they've taken action against counterfeits manufacturers (almost impossible since most if not all of them are outside the US, the last examples I recall are their lawsuits against Korean fakes manufacturers back in the 1990s) or distributors I haven't heard any information or details.

At least this is how I'm understanding it from what I've read over the years. If anyone who's actually an attorney who deals with US Anti-counterfeiting laws can correct me, I would like to get correct information.
Click to expand...
Actually, state Attorneys General are responsible for investigating and prosecuting violations their Unfair Trade Practices and Consumer Protection laws. These laws address consumer fraud, deception and misrepresentation. The fact that the fraud may also be a violation of Federal Copyright and/or Trademark laws aren't necessarily relevant. It depends on the state, and in this case I don't know whether the state law where this seller resides or where the purchaser resides would be the appropriate. The feds and states have concurrent jurisdiction in most areas. Some states may also prosecute under both criminal and civil statutes. The state would be the Plaintiff not an individual. One would have to check every state to see if there have been any cases brought against small individual sellers. This could be very difficult if the parties reach a settlement before a complaint is filed. Under the Lanham Act, (the federal statute you referred to above), you are right a claim for trademark infringement belongs to the holder of the trademark. However the Lanham Act also prohibits false designations, advertising, or descriptions of a registered mark. Under that Section, any person can bring a claim. Amazon did so in 2020. The actions by the sellers were pretty egregious though, which goes to your point that the little guys aren't likely worth the fight for an individual consumer. Poshmark's liability (or lack there of) is a whole different kettle of fish and there has been significant caselaw with respect to e-commerce platforms. So after all that the question I have is, do we as individual buyers, who only buy a few items for personal use (such as myself) have a responsibility to report those sellers who are selling counterfeit goods? Logically it seems any buyer responsibility would disappear once the posting or sale is reported. But reported to just Poshmark (who does nothing) or each state AG or the feds? And how much culpability do small resellers like the one discussed here have? Knew or should have known is a pretty broad standard? And, might I add, Authenticators like you are bombarded with questions about bags that are fakes. That has got to drive you crazy. As an aside, y'all are pretty awesome for doing that for all of us. I hope you realize how much your effort is appreciated. I hadn't really thought about any of these issues until just a week or two ago when I asked about the Willis. The proverbial Pandora's box. And my feathers aren't that ruffled by this seller. They are just the ones who made me start thinking about the issue.
 
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#72,333
whateve said:
This sounds about right. When I worked for Levis, they told us they were responsible for protecting their own copyright so we, as employees, were supposed to let management know whenever we saw a violation. In those days the only threat was companies advertising they were selling Levis when they were really just selling blue jeans made by a different manufacturer. We were told that if they didn't stop, their copyright would become worthless, like the way everyone calls every brand of tissue, kleenex.
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Do you know if management ever did anything when a violation was reported?
 
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#72,334
JJK250 said:
Actually, state Attorneys General are responsible for investigating and prosecuting violations their Unfair Trade Practices and Consumer Protection laws. These laws address consumer fraud, deception and misrepresentation. The fact that the fraud may also be a violation of Federal Copyright and/or Trademark laws aren't necessarily relevant. It depends on the state, and in this case I don't know whether the state law where this seller resides or where the purchaser resides would be the appropriate. The feds and states have concurrent jurisdiction in most areas. Some states may also prosecute under both criminal and civil statutes. The state would be the Plaintiff not an individual. One would have to check every state to see if there have been any cases brought against small individual sellers. This could be very difficult if the parties reach a settlement before a complaint is filed. Under the Lanham Act, (the federal statute you referred to above), you are right a claim for trademark infringement belongs to the holder of the trademark. However the Lanham Act also prohibits false designations, advertising, or descriptions of a registered mark. Under that Section, any person can bring a claim. Amazon did so in 2020. The actions by the sellers were pretty egregious though, which goes to your point that the little guys aren't likely worth the fight for an individual consumer. Poshmark's liability (or lack there of) is a whole different kettle of fish and there has been significant caselaw with respect to e-commerce platforms. So after all that the question I have is, do we as individual buyers, who only buy a few items for personal use (such as myself) have a responsibility to report those sellers who are selling counterfeit goods? Logically it seems any buyer responsibility would disappear once the posting or sale is reported. But reported to just Poshmark (who does nothing) or each state AG or the feds? And how much culpability do small resellers like the one discussed here have? Knew or should have known is a pretty broad standard? And, might I add, Authenticators like you are bombarded with questions about bags that are fakes. That has got to drive you crazy. As an aside, y'all are pretty awesome for doing that for all of us. I hope you realize how much your effort is appreciated. I hadn't really thought about any of these issues until just a week or two ago when I asked about the Willis. The proverbial Pandora's box.
Click to expand...

Interesting information, thanks for looking into it.

What things basically boil down to is probably "consult a lawyer". But one individual filing a single complaint against an entity like Poshmark doesn't stand much chance of success, and as with so many similar situations, the only ones who will receive any financial satisfaction are the lawyers. A search of one's own state's AG website might be instructive, but there's probably not a simple solution or we would have heard about it by now.
 
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#72,338
Hello! Could you kindly take a look at this thrift store find. Hopefully it’s ok.
-coach 9924
Height: 5”

Width: 8.5”

Depth: 2.5”
 

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#72,343
Hello everyone, I found this at my local Savers Thrift for 4.99. 7" H X 9" W X 4" base the strap is 46" the creed number is J9Z-9950. If it's real I'm going to try to rehab this bag I check Google It's a Janice Legacy, but I'm aware of all the fake vintage bags out there. Thank so much. I have another bag I'll also post pictures.

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#72,344
sagg99 said:
Hello everyone, I found this at my local Savers Thrift for 4.99. 7" H X 9" W X 4" base the strap is 46" the creed number is J9Z-9950. If it's real I'm going to try to rehab this bag I check Google It's a Janice Legacy, but I'm aware of all the fake vintage bags out there. Thank so much. I have another bag I'll also post pictures.
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It's authentic.
 
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