I've seen some and they are beautiful. As @880 stated, some people have issues with the ethics of the diamond business.
Are lab diamonds the equivalent of handbag Superfakes?
- Thread starter missie1
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Perhaps another way to look at it would be that lab grown diamonds are equivalent to when a contemporary brand copies a premier brand design, but they put their own name and logo on it; and sell it under their name, at a lower price point. Legal with no fraudulent intent.
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Good analogy, though taking it even one step further….”naturally grown” tomatoes are still planted and cultivated by human hand. Don’t see many tomatoes randomly growing out in the forest raised entirely by Mother Nature, like how mined diamonds are created.
But the comparison of lab stones to superfake handbags is illogical on many levels as others have pointed out.
Note - Preemptive apologies - both my statements above may come across as sounding judge-y…I certainly don’t mean that, I’m coming from a purely intellectual debate perspective.
This is still a false equivalency and I don't think the above is what most of us are saying.
The entire concept of fake handbags (super or not) is based on someone's intellectual property. You cannot separate those things.
Diamonds are a naturally occurring thing which humans have assigned value to - some would say arbitrarily, some would say it's a manufactured market, bit for whatever reason they are considered a commodity. No one owns a trademark on diamonds. No one owns the chemical formula for diamonds or the design of diamonds (there are cuts that ARE trademarked). Diamond values do change with brand association but the change is not by orders of magnitude (meaning, the diamond I buy from my cousin in Antwerp may be half the price it would be at Graff, but it will not be 1/10 the price).
The only fair comparison I can see here would be in the area of people who want to appear wealthy without buying real bags or real stones, in which case cubic zirconia and moissanite are just as equivalent to fake handbags as lab diamonds are.
My studs are lasered with LGD so under a loupe it's visible. I've never thought of them as "superfakes"--I knew what they were when I purchased them--non-mined stones.
And no one has ever asked me about them whereas I have been asked if an authentic LV bag I have is "real".
And no one has ever asked me about them whereas I have been asked if an authentic LV bag I have is "real".
I was considering a couple of comparisons.
The mention of hothouse vs field-grown produce made me think of a closer comparison; Lab grown vs animal-sourced meats. This is a good comparison technically, fairly similar ethically/politically for some ("blood diamonds" vs "meat ethics" as well as being marketed as more environmentally conscious/sustainable but the caveat that the lab version is not really environmentally conscious as yet), but maybe the opposite emotionally for some ("doesn't feel quite the same" is a negative for some people regarding lab diamonds, while it is a positive for many people with lab meats).
A less technically correct comparison, but more "emotionally" similar comparison may be something like heated sapphires/rubies or stabilized turquoise. Most people could not tell when looking at the gemstone/jewelry if it is natural/untreated or not, but they have less value in the market currently and a lower value emotionally for many people because they are less rare. I understand that the rarity of natural diamonds is a marketing ploy to some degree, but the supply of earth-formed diamonds are more finite than the ability to create lab diamonds if the demand is there, and certainly larger sizes of excellent quality earth-formed diamonds are rare to some degree.
Maybe another non-technically correct comparison, but emotionally similar would be an antique piece of furniture or jewelry versus an exact modern replica that is advertised as being modern. The characteristics and composition would be exactly the same, but the feeling would be different for the people who value the one that is more rare or special. It is not amazing that modern technology can create beautiful gemstones, but it is awe-inspiring to me that the Earth can create gemstones.
I did not mention lab gemstones, since that is exactly the same technically and emotionally as lab diamonds, so it doesn't really add anything to the discussion. Of course, lab sapphires became very popular in Art Deco jewelry since the technology had been recently discovered. We may look to early lab sapphires for some idea of how lab diamonds may be viewed in the future. They are not a taboo item, but are usually used as accent pieces rather than a huge statement stone, always disclosed to be lab-created when sold by educated and ethical sellers, do have a lower market value than natural sapphires, but this is a little more convoluted since they were so common in period pieces and the unaltered antique value is higher than the gemstone value of small natural sapphires if they were to be replaced with natural versions. That being said, true antique pieces of the period with natural sapphires do have a higher market value, but of course they are even more rare due to the common use of lab sapphires at the time.
I do not currently own any lab diamonds. I could see myself considering it now in a more trendy piece that is design-heavy in visual impact vs "big stone-heavy" in visual impact, in the same way I may buy a borderline "fast fashion" piece, more for the design and the ability to be more disposable when fashions change. For example, a pair of intricately designed earrings with little diamond accents for sparkle; I can see myself buying a piece with lab diamonds in this instance. I can also see myself buying a stone that I love the appearance of intrinsically for it's aesthetic qualities that is not affordable for me, for example an excellent quality fancy purple or pink diamond of 2+ carats that is unaffordable to me in the Earth-grown variety; but as of now the lab versions are not priced at enough of a discount for me personally to buy as yet, since I know the value is partially from intrinsic beauty, but mostly from the rarity. I would not buy a large colorless lab diamond personally, and would prefer to buy a smaller Earth-mined diamond, but I am also a person who collects antiques because the relative rarity and feeling that it is more one-of-a-kind makes it feel more meaningful to me personally. There are a lot of natural diamonds I know, but as of today, I would rather have a natural diamond or a true antique (even if that antique was at the time of creation made in huge amounts, but was aged over time and therefore is not exactly the same as another; for example the orange blossom rings from the 1920s).
My opinion will probably evolve over time, it will be interesting to see.
The mention of hothouse vs field-grown produce made me think of a closer comparison; Lab grown vs animal-sourced meats. This is a good comparison technically, fairly similar ethically/politically for some ("blood diamonds" vs "meat ethics" as well as being marketed as more environmentally conscious/sustainable but the caveat that the lab version is not really environmentally conscious as yet), but maybe the opposite emotionally for some ("doesn't feel quite the same" is a negative for some people regarding lab diamonds, while it is a positive for many people with lab meats).
A less technically correct comparison, but more "emotionally" similar comparison may be something like heated sapphires/rubies or stabilized turquoise. Most people could not tell when looking at the gemstone/jewelry if it is natural/untreated or not, but they have less value in the market currently and a lower value emotionally for many people because they are less rare. I understand that the rarity of natural diamonds is a marketing ploy to some degree, but the supply of earth-formed diamonds are more finite than the ability to create lab diamonds if the demand is there, and certainly larger sizes of excellent quality earth-formed diamonds are rare to some degree.
Maybe another non-technically correct comparison, but emotionally similar would be an antique piece of furniture or jewelry versus an exact modern replica that is advertised as being modern. The characteristics and composition would be exactly the same, but the feeling would be different for the people who value the one that is more rare or special. It is not amazing that modern technology can create beautiful gemstones, but it is awe-inspiring to me that the Earth can create gemstones.
I did not mention lab gemstones, since that is exactly the same technically and emotionally as lab diamonds, so it doesn't really add anything to the discussion. Of course, lab sapphires became very popular in Art Deco jewelry since the technology had been recently discovered. We may look to early lab sapphires for some idea of how lab diamonds may be viewed in the future. They are not a taboo item, but are usually used as accent pieces rather than a huge statement stone, always disclosed to be lab-created when sold by educated and ethical sellers, do have a lower market value than natural sapphires, but this is a little more convoluted since they were so common in period pieces and the unaltered antique value is higher than the gemstone value of small natural sapphires if they were to be replaced with natural versions. That being said, true antique pieces of the period with natural sapphires do have a higher market value, but of course they are even more rare due to the common use of lab sapphires at the time.
I do not currently own any lab diamonds. I could see myself considering it now in a more trendy piece that is design-heavy in visual impact vs "big stone-heavy" in visual impact, in the same way I may buy a borderline "fast fashion" piece, more for the design and the ability to be more disposable when fashions change. For example, a pair of intricately designed earrings with little diamond accents for sparkle; I can see myself buying a piece with lab diamonds in this instance. I can also see myself buying a stone that I love the appearance of intrinsically for it's aesthetic qualities that is not affordable for me, for example an excellent quality fancy purple or pink diamond of 2+ carats that is unaffordable to me in the Earth-grown variety; but as of now the lab versions are not priced at enough of a discount for me personally to buy as yet, since I know the value is partially from intrinsic beauty, but mostly from the rarity. I would not buy a large colorless lab diamond personally, and would prefer to buy a smaller Earth-mined diamond, but I am also a person who collects antiques because the relative rarity and feeling that it is more one-of-a-kind makes it feel more meaningful to me personally. There are a lot of natural diamonds I know, but as of today, I would rather have a natural diamond or a true antique (even if that antique was at the time of creation made in huge amounts, but was aged over time and therefore is not exactly the same as another; for example the orange blossom rings from the 1920s).
My opinion will probably evolve over time, it will be interesting to see.
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I don't think fake bags and lab diamonds are comparable, but I believe it's mostly because a large number of people aren't and probably won't be convinced that lab diamonds are like fake bags, and/or that a natural rock is much more desirable.
People buy from brands like Hermès and LV mostly for the value that the brand adds to items that would otherwise be worth much, much less, even when they are beautifully made. "They buy relations, stories and magic." So storytelling and convincing enough people that a premium is worth it, is a big part of the business, really it is the business. Protecting the IP is an important part of keeping the storytelling alive/ not "damaging the brand". It's buying into something intangible that is a part of human culture in some way.
There was a news piece about lab diamonds where they interviewed a very experienced diamond dealer. She said she wasn't worried about lab diamonds destroying her business, because she was only dealing in very sought-after stones and pieces that had a story to tell. I believe some natural diamonds will keep falling into this category, and perhaps single origin diamonds or certified diamonds may fetch more of a premium compared to generic lab diamonds.
But I don't think it's possible or maybe worth it to apply the kind effort necessary to keep the distinction between all natural and lab grown diamonds in the market place as a whole. What would be the story that would convince a lot of people people to pay a premium for mined stones? Diamonds are really just a raw material, it has industrial uses. I can't think of many, if any raw materials that have the same status in people's minds that a brand might have. Not to mention, for environmental and humanitarian reasons, I've seen lots of people preferring lab grown stones recently. Mining has a terrible reputation for a reason.
People buy from brands like Hermès and LV mostly for the value that the brand adds to items that would otherwise be worth much, much less, even when they are beautifully made. "They buy relations, stories and magic." So storytelling and convincing enough people that a premium is worth it, is a big part of the business, really it is the business. Protecting the IP is an important part of keeping the storytelling alive/ not "damaging the brand". It's buying into something intangible that is a part of human culture in some way.
There was a news piece about lab diamonds where they interviewed a very experienced diamond dealer. She said she wasn't worried about lab diamonds destroying her business, because she was only dealing in very sought-after stones and pieces that had a story to tell. I believe some natural diamonds will keep falling into this category, and perhaps single origin diamonds or certified diamonds may fetch more of a premium compared to generic lab diamonds.
But I don't think it's possible or maybe worth it to apply the kind effort necessary to keep the distinction between all natural and lab grown diamonds in the market place as a whole. What would be the story that would convince a lot of people people to pay a premium for mined stones? Diamonds are really just a raw material, it has industrial uses. I can't think of many, if any raw materials that have the same status in people's minds that a brand might have. Not to mention, for environmental and humanitarian reasons, I've seen lots of people preferring lab grown stones recently. Mining has a terrible reputation for a reason.
Your point and many others have identified that fake/superfakes are illegal because of intellectual property theft and that manufacturing and selling of lab diamonds are legal & is are a legitimate business therefore my earlier observation “identical duplication for more affordable price point is fine as long as done legally and no fraudulent intent is involved” is definitely my takeaway from this topic. As always I love to hear different perspectives from you ladies.
To answer the rhetorical question, precious gemstones have had vast cultural power for thousands of years. Diamonds aren't "really just" something simple and objective; they have historical associations and meanings persuasive enough to keep them valued despite other considerations. Some people's family history involves reliance on diamonds as equity during oppression and flight. Lots of deeply felt stories and mythology behind the allure of diamonds.
It can change, though: I can buy a tulip at Home Depot today for $.50 (look up tulipmania).
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I don't have any lab diamonds, only natural, and the majority are heirlooms.
I looked up how long a natural diamond takes to form vs. a lab grown. The numbers vary, but I saw 25 million to billions of years for the earth to create diamonds. A lab grown, on the other hand, takes about 4-6 weeks in a lab.
I see natural vs. lab as something that is rare vs. something that is more mass produced. Maybe the difference between a high end and a low end bag. They both might be bags, but one has a higher implied value. From what I've heard, lab grown diamonds don't hold value like natural diamonds do.
I looked up how long a natural diamond takes to form vs. a lab grown. The numbers vary, but I saw 25 million to billions of years for the earth to create diamonds. A lab grown, on the other hand, takes about 4-6 weeks in a lab.
I see natural vs. lab as something that is rare vs. something that is more mass produced. Maybe the difference between a high end and a low end bag. They both might be bags, but one has a higher implied value. From what I've heard, lab grown diamonds don't hold value like natural diamonds do.
This discussion is fascinating. I personally was torn between lab vs natural for my eternity band. Some say the whole natural diamond World pricing is a scam.
IMO, I don't think quality should be a consideration in this convo, since you can have amazing quality natural or man made diamonds or poor quality ones regardless of type.
I think a good analogy would be water - water found directly in nature from a natural spring or source vs. bottled water, filtered water at home, tap water, etc. It's all still water, just with differing origins & paths on how they got to you. You would never claim bottled water is fake water. It's still water. Man made diamonds are still diamonds. Just diamonds with a different origin and path on how they got to you.
I think a good analogy would be water - water found directly in nature from a natural spring or source vs. bottled water, filtered water at home, tap water, etc. It's all still water, just with differing origins & paths on how they got to you. You would never claim bottled water is fake water. It's still water. Man made diamonds are still diamonds. Just diamonds with a different origin and path on how they got to you.
My jeweller tells me that people who are looking for engagement rings are increasingly opting for lab diamonds, including his own children! As lab diamonds are a fraction of the price of a mined diamond so allows one to choose a much larger lab diamond for the same price of a mined diamond. The discussion on this thread is interesting but for the vast majority of people not so much (they just care about the end result).
I would say the superfakes of the jewelry world are DHGate knock-off Cartier Love bracelets, things like that where the design is copied.
The handbag equivalent of lab diamonds might be faux leather - ? Good quality, like Stella McCartney’s.
The handbag equivalent of lab diamonds might be faux leather - ? Good quality, like Stella McCartney’s.
This statement is like comparing apples to oranges because jewelry stores openly advertise lab diamonds but you would never find a luxury store advertising a super fake.