all handmade?

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When I purchased my Victoria bag, my SA said that this bag was partially sewn using a hand-guided machine. But the handles were sewn to the body of the bag by hand. She has been with Hermes for a long time and was lucky enough to recently visit one of the workshops in France where the bag is made.
 
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Hi Monceau!
I also have a lot of experience with textile printing and my impression is that yes, it's more automated/fewer technicians but the new very high quality printers are much more accurate and detailed than 47 screens. While I agree that there is risk of inferior quality product depending on the machine or technology, I'm not sure I've seen a decline in the product H has been producing from year to year. I'm a big fan of technology when it improves things and I do something that is a handicraft so I appreciate that there are some things a machine can never do. I just think the whole conversation is very interesting.

Do you feel that print quality has declined over the seasons? I haven't been collecting long enough to notice.

It's not so much a decline in print quality as a different (still inferior, in some respects) medium- think of photography: a digital print vs something like dye-transfer. Arabesques could speak to this , so perhaps she will chime in. The process of one is more of an art, the other is more a utilitarian product, I suppose. There are certain things digital can provide that analog processes can't, but the digital is missing that human touch, in my opinion, it misses some life. Screen printing is widely regarded as producing more vibrant color. Personal preferences aside, Screen printing is still considered the gold standard in the industry, but digital is clearly the future of printing. As I'm sure you realize, screen printing does not mean non-mechanized. Most screen printing is done on a mechanical multi-station press, including at Hermes. Those métier showcases with the printer painstakingly screening a single scarf in a tray is not how they do it in the factory.

In terms of industrial printing, screen printing is costlier to produce. Generally, digital printing is a less costly alternative, and customers choose it for that reason. Fewer steps are involved in digital. In the field I was in, screen printing was art to film, film to (screen) plates, plates to press. Each color required a different plate, mixed by the colorist/ press operator. The level of pressure had to be monitored, so it is an involved process. Of course, more steps mean more opportunities for error or inconsistency, which is why skilled workers are needed. In digital, the process is art to press, the press operator types the color formulas into the machine and loads the materials- no real skill needed. There is more consistency in digital runs, and quality is quickly advancing, but the end result is just- different. It's not so much the visuals of the design as how the color is applied to the silk, and what effect that gives. There are pros and cons to each process. I'm sure Hermes is careful to move towards digital and will only do so with the highest standards, but I don't believe the move is based on a sense that it offers superior quality, it's based on the realities of the day and cost efficiencies. I'm sure they will balance these goals as well as possible.

It is an interesting conversation, and technological advances are amazing, but I always have some sadness for the loss of craftspeople in all fields. I recently spoke with a furniture and antiques dealer who lamented the closing of the last major American hand-crafted furniture maker. I was unaware that this was an industry that had now disappeared in the U.S. All of those craftspeople who had apprenticed and dedicated years to their craft- who will follow them? Will those skills become a lost art? Very small scale companies still exist, as well as individual artisans, but the heritage brands (Baker, Henkel Harris, etc.) have all closed or exist in name only after being bought by overseas companies. They just couldn't compete with IKEA and pottery barn in terms of price.
 
Coincidentally enough there are scarf printing videos on the Hermès Instagram account right now. Looks like fall designs so it's relevant to both this and the handmade thread.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BHzwOvAB0Rc/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BHxPH3HBBrj/
Not much in those instagram videos from Hermes. They do show scarves are printed in long strips - like about 100 scarves long , and the strips are peeled off the printing tables.
Youtube has a confusing video. The orange logo makes you think it come from Hermes, but the caption says it is just a video taken at the metiers (by a person, not by the company):

At the metiers, per the photos, two scarves were printed together - not 100. The squeegeeing - color application - was done by hand there. But that is now how it is done at the facvtory.
This site which reports on a 2013 factory at Lyon (there many factories, in many locations) according to which the colors are applied by machine - not by hand as at the metiers. There is a person whose sole functions seems to be Quality Control, not producing the scarf
«Here at Ateliers A.S we experienced a different printing experience to the one a couple of hours earlier. Here the designs are printed on a 160m long table on which an equally long piece of 100 cm wide silk twill is stuck on with special glue. There are big and slightly scary machines that move along the silk methodically, printing a screen at a time with the technician checking as each square goes along, to make sure nothing has shifted».
http://www.disneyrollergirl.net/studio-visit-hermes-silk-scarf-workshops-lyon/
So, one should not assume the color application which is shown as a hand process at the metiers, is that done for real scarf production. The latter is mechanized at the factory.
And the 2013 report mentions a super secret laser printer that no one was allowed to photograph. We dont know what it is used for. All bets are off as to what is really done in 2016.
 
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Not much in those instagram videos from Hermes. They do show scarves are printed in long strips - like about 100 scarves long , and the strips are peeled off the printing tables.
Youtube has a confusing video. The orange logo makes you think it come from Hermes, but the caption says it is just a video taken at the metiers (by a person, not by the company):

At the metiers, per the photos, two scarves were printed together - not 100. The squeegeeing - color application - was done by hand there. But that is now how it is done at the facvtory.
This site which reports on a 2013 factory at Lyon (there many factories, in many locations) according to which the colors are applied by machine - not by hand as at the metiers. There is a person whose sole functions seems to be Quality Control, not producing the scarf
«Here at Ateliers A.S we experienced a different printing experience to the one a couple of hours earlier. Here the designs are printed on a 160m long table on which an equally long piece of 100 cm wide silk twill is stuck on with special glue. There are big and slightly scary machines that move along the silk methodically, printing a screen at a time with the technician checking as each square goes along, to make sure nothing has shifted».
http://www.disneyrollergirl.net/studio-visit-hermes-silk-scarf-workshops-lyon/
So, one should not assume the color application which is shown as a hand process at the metiers, is that done for real scarf production. The latter is mechanized at the factory.
And the 2013 report mentions a super secret laser printer that no one was allowed to photograph. We dont know what it is used for. All bets are off as to what is really done in 2016.


If I remember correctly, they built this 2 scarf "press" for the traveling Metiers show that went around the world.

My knowledge of hand pulling vs machine pulling of the screens came from a lot of googling and watching of any and all Hermes videos. The long strip of 100 scarves is in the long format documentary on the Hermes craftspeople. It shows a mechanized process for moving the screens and printing 50-100 scarves at a time. There's great footage of the long scroll of silk drying and moving around the workshop. It's very beautiful to see the movement, to me at least.
In the same film footage there is a craftsman hand pulling the colors on large format Cashmere/Silk. The process has likely changed quite a lot in the last few years as the technology evolves and since H is so forthcoming about their business practices, we can only speculate. :smile:
 
It's not so much a decline in print quality as a different (still inferior, in some respects) medium- think of photography: a digital print vs something like dye-transfer. Arabesques could speak to this , so perhaps she will chime in. The process of one is more of an art, the other is more a utilitarian product, I suppose. There are certain things digital can provide that analog processes can't, but the digital is missing that human touch, in my opinion, it misses some life. Screen printing is widely regarded as producing more vibrant color. Personal preferences aside, Screen printing is still considered the gold standard in the industry, but digital is clearly the future of printing. As I'm sure you realize, screen printing does not mean non-mechanized. Most screen printing is done on a mechanical multi-station press, including at Hermes. Those métier showcases with the printer painstakingly screening a single scarf in a tray is not how they do it in the factory.

In terms of industrial printing, screen printing is costlier to produce. Generally, digital printing is a less costly alternative, and customers choose it for that reason. Fewer steps are involved in digital. In the field I was in, screen printing was art to film, film to (screen) plates, plates to press. Each color required a different plate, mixed by the colorist/ press operator. The level of pressure had to be monitored, so it is an involved process. Of course, more steps mean more opportunities for error or inconsistency, which is why skilled workers are needed. In digital, the process is art to press, the press operator types the color formulas into the machine and loads the materials- no real skill needed. There is more consistency in digital runs, and quality is quickly advancing, but the end result is just- different. It's not so much the visuals of the design as how the color is applied to the silk, and what effect that gives. There are pros and cons to each process. I'm sure Hermes is careful to move towards digital and will only do so with the highest standards, but I don't believe the move is based on a sense that it offers superior quality, it's based on the realities of the day and cost efficiencies. I'm sure they will balance these goals as well as possible.

It is an interesting conversation, and technological advances are amazing, but I always have some sadness for the loss of craftspeople in all fields. I recently spoke with a furniture and antiques dealer who lamented the closing of the last major American hand-crafted furniture maker. I was unaware that this was an industry that had now disappeared in the U.S. All of those craftspeople who had apprenticed and dedicated years to their craft- who will follow them? Will those skills become a lost art? Very small scale companies still exist, as well as individual artisans, but the heritage brands (Baker, Henkel Harris, etc.) have all closed or exist in name only after being bought by overseas companies. They just couldn't compete with IKEA and pottery barn in terms of price.

I understand completely and I'm quite sure digital printing is not to improve quality with the exception that printed inks seem more resilient to bleeding. I do think that's an improvement to the longevity and wearability of a silk. As to the difference in the look to the designs between releases, I can't speak to that. I do understand what a previous post said about the piece moving the wearer in some way. Hopefully that will not go away with the changes in printing techniques.

The inability of some heritage and handmade brands to compete with mass production is something I think about quite a bit. I make my living with my hands and my ideas so I have to provide more to clients, not necessarily more product but better service, better client experience, more creativity or more value. When those things disappear and customers no longer see the value in what they provide, brands cannot compete with the lesser quality competitors and their marketing dollars. I feel fortunate to have found my clients who value what I do for them and would never compare me to an overseas competitor or mass marketer. For the furniture makers, I'm optimistic that the next generation who seems to value heirlooms and handmade will find them, perhaps on a smaller scale than previously but I like to think those skills won't die out!
 
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Somebody told me once --they were visiting a artisan event -- if the stitches go ///// they are machine made. If they go \\\\\\\ they are hand-stitched. I didn't want to tell her that, if you turn the bag over, the stitches change direction. I believe the artisan was having some fun at her expense. That saddle stitch requires two hands, each with a needle. I am no expert, but I don't know how a machine could duplicate that process.
We also saw Some parts of shirts being made by hand, and ties. I believe that it is more efficient for machines to seam clothing pieces.I think you would have stronger garments.
 
If I remember correctly, they built this 2 scarf "press" for the traveling Metiers show that went around the world.

My knowledge of hand pulling vs machine pulling of the screens came from a lot of googling and watching of any and all Hermes videos. The long strip of 100 scarves is in the long format documentary on the Hermes craftspeople. It shows a mechanized process for moving the screens and printing 50-100 scarves at a time. There's great footage of the long scroll of silk drying and moving around the workshop. It's very beautiful to see the movement, to me at least.
In the same film footage there is a craftsman hand pulling the colors on large format Cashmere/Silk. The process has likely changed quite a lot in the last few years as the technology evolves and since H is so forthcoming about their business practices, we can only speculate. :smile:

Do you have a link to the video ?
 
Thanks. Fascinating, have not finished the 45 minute video yet, but a few notes - or, I will lose them by the end of the video, I keep rewinding it to appreciate all the information.
Around 11:19 - 11:34 into the video, there are images of the ginormous table with the production run with the 100 90cm scarf-long-bolt of fabric. The machine is applying the color. The two ladies are doing inspection - quality control - on the long table of 90 cm scarves. They are checking registration - that the colors are aligned. They sign the edge of the silk to document the inspection. There is no narration, music only - the ladies dont speak of their craft. That makes sense, my guess would be that they are part of the Quality Control group. They are not making the product - they check it for defects.
The a horse interlude at the Granbd Palais.
12;21 or so, the workers are in a different room, they seem to be making (?), inspecting, cleaning single screens , not printing scarves. The blue screens are probably good for only a certain number of printings, and only for one cw. So, they have to be periodically redone . There is not a single set of screens for a design - there are lots of them.
12:43 A 58 year old man screening a single 140 cm Brazil (CS, silk ??) by hand. aT 58, i ASSUME HE IS A SENIOR ARTTISAN.
It takes 2 to lift up each screen - that is done by hand. Absolutely, he is making a scarf by hand, the hard way. But, he is not on the production floor working on the bolt of 100 scarves. My guess is that he is doing a prototype (one off), to make sure the design is OK, and the screens are also OK before everything goes to the ginormous production tables.
I wish the narration had clarified which techniques are used at which stage of the process.
 
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It would not let me finish editing (fix typos) my post - bah ! humbug !
I did cheat in my interpretation of the video, I kind of filled in bits from my own experience - my company does screening ... so, I am aware of many hidden parts of the process - quality control, and making screens, and doing first articles/prototypes
 
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It would not let me finish editing (fix typos) my post - bah ! humbug !
I did cheat in my interpretation of the video, I kind of filled in bits from my own experience - my company does screening ... so, I am aware of many hidden parts of the process - quality control, and making screens, and doing first articles/prototypes
MT, a bit later in the video, 2 artists are working on creating the master screen for a scarf... one by hand, and the other by computer (at least, I think that's what they're doing!). Is it a 140cm, or a 90cm? And what's the design? I first thought Brazil, but I see little horses on it, and are there horses on Brazil?????? I think it's at about the 16-minute mark, and the footage goes on for about a minute and a half.
 
Will finish checking out the video, had to go back to real work
I was trying yesterday to watch that WHOLE 45 min !!!! video and do real work, apologize for garbling the text with my editing while distracted
The 58 year old gentleman about 13 : 05 - the master artisan , works slowly , deliberately, too slow for production work. The tell is the drying fan over the table (13:05), this is too slow for production. He is making a prototype or perhaps an exceptional scarf
 
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Another interesting moment - the COLORS
14 14 the Hmong lady is mixing the colors (I wish they told me her name, I hate to refer to her by ethnicity but that is how Hermes referred to her,)
14 43 She is making as ample chart of the fabricated colors. Each is mixed according to recipe. Hermes does not buy 75,000 colors, they buy a limited number of pigments and mix them into a creamy base. That has to be done for every production run.
15:22 you see all the color sample books , evidently printed with all the master color samples, there are also color cards (15:44) held up to the wall, and larger fabric samples (15;44)
15 45 a lady is comparing a large swatch in red (a bigger master color sample) to a printed prototype scarf - she is checking that the red on the scarf is good
The color checking (1545) is likely first article only. They print one - the master artisan might do it by hand - and verify the colors came out as expected. Sometimes pigments - from the dye maker - are defective, so, they are are in part checking the pigment batch
The color checking (15 45) shown is likely too time consuming to do for every scarf, further, mushing around the printed scarf will damage a silk so, no,. they would not do this in production. They would have some different color checking for production - something of a hands off process by then
 
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