Trying for my holy grail. Is it in this Court/Plaza/Willis/etc. group?

[hetha2001]

Hello everyone. I've been acquiring vintage Coach bags for a few years now and seeing what I like but also realizing I just haven't found the perfect one yet. I don't want a bunch of bags. I am looking for an every day bag which can handle daily essentials (wallet, two pairs glasses, lipstick), and a smaller bag for when I need less or for dressier occasions.

Here is what I do like:
Dark, smooth, unlined leather (black, brown, mahogany)
Both top handle and cross strap. (I find myself annoyed trying to grab my bag out of the car with the shoulder strap, so like a handle, but need a shoulder strap for using both hands when shopping or helping kids).
Brass accents on front flap, like turn lock or spring lock.
Flap closure, not zipper, but flap only halfway. (I find I break my nails on a top zipper. And, I have a pocket purse and a City and I find the flaps a little long when latching the purse with one hand)

Here is what I have tried so far:
9883 Regina, dark brown. She is just about perfect, but just too tiny for everyday. I've used her as the smaller bag and will probably keep her as such unless I can find a black one one day.
9870 Court, black. Very nice, just a bit too small side to side. No longer have her.
9977 Manor, black. Too small, didn't like the top handle as much as the handle on the Station, Regina or Court. No longer have her.
9755 Pocket Purse, black. Pretty, but too small top to bottom, no top handle. Plus the full flap is a bit much for me. She will be leaving, just don't have room for a bag I don't use often.
9790 City, dark brown or mahogany, not sure. No top handle. She will probably stay as a fancier alternative to my Station, until I finally find the new 'perfect' bag.
5130 Station, tan. Currently my day bag, wish it was a bit wider/taller.

Most of these bags look like they come from the same family. Is 'Court' a family name or style name? Is there a name for all these handle-top/cross-body bags with the turn lock and dog leash straps?

I've looked through many, many threads here and online trying to find my HG bag. It's very difficult to know if the bag will work just based on measurements, and there are not a lot of photos of people or mannequins actually wearing the bags for reference.

I'm wondering if a Plaza regular is too small, Plaza large too big, Avenue looks good, but seems impossible to find.
Here is an image of bags I absolutely love the look of.


Does anyone have a collection of these bags that could weigh in on which bag may be what I've been searching for?

Or, is there some vintage bag I've never heard of that you just think is perfect that I should consider instead?

Thank you and I look forward to hearing your thoughts and seeing any photos you may want to share.

 

[cbarrus]

Have you tried the Willis? It has the same setup, I believe, as the Station, but is a larger bag. It was so popular originally, that Coach is now bringing it back but at a much higher price point, of course. It is still not an overly large bag, but I do think it would hold what you need it to. I do still have one that I wear occasionally, and I do like it.

 

[Hyacinth]

Hello everyone. I've been acquiring vintage Coach bags for a few years now and seeing what I like but also realizing I just haven't found the perfect one yet. I don't want a bunch of bags. I am looking for an every day bag which can handle daily essentials (wallet, two pairs glasses, lipstick), and a smaller bag for when I need less or for dressier occasions.

Here is what I do like:
Dark, smooth, unlined leather (black, brown, mahogany)
Both top handle and cross strap. (I find myself annoyed trying to grab my bag out of the car with the shoulder strap, so like a handle, but need a shoulder strap for using both hands when shopping or helping kids).
Brass accents on front flap, like turn lock or spring lock.
Flap closure, not zipper, but flap only halfway. (I find I break my nails on a top zipper. And, I have a pocket purse and a City and I find the flaps a little long when latching the purse with one hand)...


Most of these bags look like they come from the same family. Is 'Court' a family name or style name? Is there a name for all these handle-top/cross-body bags with the turn lock and dog leash straps?

I've looked through many, many threads here and online trying to find my HG bag. It's very difficult to know if the bag will work just based on measurements, and there are not a lot of photos of people or mannequins actually wearing the bags for reference.

I'm wondering if a Plaza regular is too small, Plaza large too big, Avenue looks good, but seems impossible to find.
Here is an image of bags I absolutely love the look of.
View attachment 4378235

Does anyone have a collection of these bags that could weigh in on which bag may be what I've been searching for?

Or, is there some vintage bag I've never heard of that you just think is perfect that I should consider instead?

Thank you and I look forward to hearing your thoughts and seeing any photos you may want to share.

Just to echo what Cbarrus said, I'd also suggest the Willis. It's one of my favorite vintage styles (I own about 6 genuine ones plus 2 fakes that I keep as references and in case I can repurpose the straps), it comes with a nice long cross-body strap, and as long as you don't use an extra-thick wallet with a turnlock it should be able to fit everything you mentioned. They also have a large under-flap pocket and a full-size outside back slip pocket in addition to the inside zip pocket. The outside pockets should fit most if not all smartphones.

There are always a bunch of them for sale on Ebay, I suggest finding one that's fairly inexpensive (have it authenticated here first since Willises were highly faked). And as with all older bags, check to be sure the long strap hasn't been cut down.

And no, there's no such thing as a "Court family". The dowel-top bags are sometimes thought of as being members of the Willis "family", but Coach never made any comments or statements about bag families back then.

 

[Lake Effect]

Hello everyone. I've been acquiring vintage Coach bags for a few years now and seeing what I like but also realizing I just haven't found the perfect one yet. I don't want a bunch of bags. I am looking for an every day bag which can handle daily essentials (wallet, two pairs glasses, lipstick), and a smaller bag for when I need less or for dressier occasions.

Here is what I do like:
Dark, smooth, unlined leather (black, brown, mahogany)
Both top handle and cross strap. (I find myself annoyed trying to grab my bag out of the car with the shoulder strap, so like a handle, but need a shoulder strap for using both hands when shopping or helping kids).
Brass accents on front flap, like turn lock or spring lock.
Flap closure, not zipper, but flap only halfway. (I find I break my nails on a top zipper. And, I have a pocket purse and a City and I find the flaps a little long when latching the purse with one hand)

Here is what I have tried so far:
9883 Regina, dark brown. She is just about perfect, but just too tiny for everyday. I've used her as the smaller bag and will probably keep her as such unless I can find a black one one day.
9870 Court, black. Very nice, just a bit too small side to side. No longer have her.
9977 Manor, black. Too small, didn't like the top handle as much as the handle on the Station, Regina or Court. No longer have her.
9755 Pocket Purse, black. Pretty, but too small top to bottom, no top handle. Plus the full flap is a bit much for me. She will be leaving, just don't have room for a bag I don't use often.
9790 City, dark brown or mahogany, not sure. No top handle. She will probably stay as a fancier alternative to my Station, until I finally find the new 'perfect' bag.
5130 Station, tan. Currently my day bag, wish it was a bit wider/taller.

Most of these bags look like they come from the same family. Is 'Court' a family name or style name? Is there a name for all these handle-top/cross-body bags with the turn lock and dog leash straps?

I've looked through many, many threads here and online trying to find my HG bag. It's very difficult to know if the bag will work just based on measurements, and there are not a lot of photos of people or mannequins actually wearing the bags for reference.

I'm wondering if a Plaza regular is too small, Plaza large too big, Avenue looks good, but seems impossible to find.
Here is an image of bags I absolutely love the look of.
View attachment 4378235

Does anyone have a collection of these bags that could weigh in on which bag may be what I've been searching for?

Or, is there some vintage bag I've never heard of that you just think is perfect that I should consider instead?

Thank you and I look forward to hearing your thoughts and seeing any photos you may want to share.

Tell me about it! My fantasy is for there to be a vintage show/convention just to try out bags. I think you would like the Plaza large if the Court is too small. I have both. The Plaza is my classy go to bag. The Court is in the end of refurbishing. I can post photos of a compare over the weekend.
I’ve seen a pic of the catalogue page showing the Court, Plaza, Avenue and a brief bag with same handle, I believe when they were introduced , as the Continental Line.
Eta, lol, it’s only taken me about 2 dozen bags to figure what I like and what works for me ! But I indulge in small bags on the weekend
Also, I handled a Station bag at a flea market and felt it was heavy, given the small size.
I do like my City and my Pocket Bag, the larger version of the Pocket Purse.

 

[hetha2001]

Have you tried the Willis? It has the same setup, I believe, as the Station, but is a larger bag. It was so popular originally, that Coach is now bringing it back but at a much higher price point, of course. It is still not an overly large bag, but I do think it would hold what you need it to. I do still have one that I wear occasionally, and I do like it.

I do like the look of Willis, I think I like strong geometry in bags, and the squareness of the Willis appeals to me.

 

[hetha2001]

Just to echo what Cbarrus said, I'd also suggest the Willis. It's one of my favorite vintage styles (I own about 6 genuine ones plus 2 fakes that I keep as references and in case I can repurpose the straps), it comes with a nice long cross-body strap, and as long as you don't use an extra-thick wallet with a turnlock it should be able to fit everything you mentioned. They also have a large under-flap pocket and a full-size outside back slip pocket in addition to the inside zip pocket. The outside pockets should fit most if not all smartphones.

There are always a bunch of them for sale on Ebay, I suggest finding one that's fairly inexpensive (have it authenticated here first since Willises were highly faked). And as with all older bags, check to be sure the long strap hasn't been cut down.

And no, there's no such thing as a "Court family". The dowel-top bags are sometimes thought of as being members of the Willis "family", but Coach never made any comments or statements about bag families back then.

I think I will look at Willis'...do you happen to know what the cross body strap length should be?

 

[hetha2001]

Tell me about it! My fantasy is for there to be a vintage show/convention just to try out bags. I think you would like the Plaza large if the Court is too small. I have both. The Plaza is my classy go to bag. The Court is in the end of refurbishing. I can post photos of a compare over the weekend.
I’ve seen a pic of the catalogue page showing the Court, Plaza, Avenue and a brief bag with same handle, I believe when they were introduced , as the Continental Line.
Eta, lol, it’s only taken me about 2 dozen bags to figure what I like and what works for me ! But I indulge in small bags on the weekend
Also, I handled a Station bag at a flea market and felt it was heavy, given the small size.
I do like my City and my Pocket Bag, the larger version of the Pocket Purse.

I'd love to see photos when you have time. Based on the above comments, I'll take a look at Willis, but I do also like the look of the Plaza and Avenue, it just seems like currently I cannot find either in my price range, and the more expensive ones sometime say 'refurbished', which could mean lovingly restored or covered in shoe polish, I just can't tell.
And if anyone has a catalog pic that shows the Court, Plaza and Avenue together (Continental line) I would love to have that in my reference files.

 

[cbarrus]

I don't know what your budget is, but you could also look for one on Etsy for a nice vintage one. Sometimes the prices are higher, but I have purchased several on Etsy that are in excellent condition. There are sellers on there who specialize in vintage Coach and have very good reviews.

 

[Hyacinth]

I think I will look at Willis'...do you happen to know what the cross body strap length should be?

The strap is usually about 44 inches total length or a "drop" of between 19 and 21 inches depending on how the seller measures it and where the strap is buckled. "Drop" is normally about half of the strap's total length minus one inch.

Regarding your other question, I don't remember ever seeing a photo of all 3 of those styles together but I'll look through my catalogs later when I have a liitle more time.

Found two on one page, click on the thumbnails


and a Plaza Bag Large with a Court Bag, the Court is the smallest of the three


Something to keep in mind - the Avenue Bag has a Springlock close, if it ever breaks I don't know if Coach still las the parts to replace it. Maybe the rehab experts who have experience with those locks can comment if they've had problems with them?

 

[hetha2001]

The strap is usually about 44 inches total length or a "drop" of between 19 and 21 inches depending on how the seller measures it and where the strap is buckled. "Drop" is normally about half of the strap's total length minus one inch.

Regarding your other question, I don't remember ever seeing a photo of all 3 of those styles together but I'll look through my catalogs later when I have a liitle more time.

Found two on one page, click on the thumbnails

View attachment 4379394
and a Plaza Bag Large with a Court Bag, the Court is the smallest of the three
View attachment 4379402

Something to keep in mind - the Avenue Bag has a Springlock close, if it ever breaks I don't know if Coach still las the parts to replace it. Maybe the rehab experts who have experience with those locks can comment if they've had problems with them?

I really do love the look of that Avenue bag, sort of a giant Court bag.
Based on initial advice, I've put a bid on a Willis, hopefully it will fit my needs.
However, if I see an Avenue in my travels, I will just have to grab that as well.
Thank you for posting the catalog pics. I love them for my files (meaning my Vintage Coach Pinterest page).
Thanks again.

 

[Hyacinth]

I really do love the look of that Avenue bag, sort of a giant Court bag.
Based on initial advice, I've put a bid on a Willis, hopefully it will fit my needs.
However, if I see an Avenue in my travels, I will just have to grab that as well.
Thank you for posting the catalog pics. I love them for my files (meaning my Vintage Coach Pinterest page).
Thanks again.

A word to the wise - if you really want to save files like that, save them onto a USB stick (2 if possible), CD or DVD or some other kind of permanent storage in addition to whatever online sites you use. Avoid sites, cloud or otherwise, that can be hacked or simply "lost". While I'm sure Pinterest will probably be around for a while, the users of MySpace thought the same thing a while back too.

"Myspace Lost All Music Uploaded to Site Prior to 2015
“There is no way to recover them,” site says after server migration erases 50 million songs...

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/myspace-lost-music-809455/

 

[houseof999]

I have the Avenue bag and while 12 X 8 X 2 is a good size I am worried about 2" depth and worried that you might want more depth than that.

What do you think of the 9905 Crosby bag? I love how spacious it is and I think it will meet all your needs with room to spare.

 

[hetha2001]

I have the Avenue bag and while 12 X 8 X 2 is a good size I am worried about 2" depth and worried that you might want more depth than that.

What do you think of the 9905 Crosby bag? I love how spacious it is and I think it will meet all your needs with room to spare. View attachment 4380016

Wow, perfect. Of course, the items I seem to love the most (this Crosby, Avenue, large Plaza) seem to be the Yeti's of the online shopping world. And, why does Coach re-use names?? A search for the Coach Crosby bag shows a newer tote for pete's sake. Anyway, I will keep Crosby 9905 in my searches.
Thank you and thanks for the insight on the Avenue bag. Barring it's narrow width, is everything else about it just wonderful? Can you post a pic of the one you own?
Thank you!

 

[Hyacinth]

Wow, perfect. Of course, the items I seem to love the most (this Crosby, Avenue, large Plaza) seem to be the Yeti's of the online shopping world. And, why does Coach re-use names?? A search for the Coach Crosby bag shows a newer tote for pete's sake. Anyway, I will keep Crosby 9905 in my searches.
Thank you and thanks for the insight on the Avenue bag. Barring it's narrow width, is everything else about it just wonderful? Can you post a pic of the one you own?
Thank you!

Coach re-uses names constantly, try doing an Ebay Search for "Coach Madison".

And the big problem with searching for any of the 3 bags you just mentioned is that a lot of sellers don't know their official names and even fewer sellers know their style numbers. IIRC all thre of those styles were discontinued before 1994 which means that the style number never appeared in the serial number. You almost have to search for the Avenue and Crosby styles by checking listing photos for bags with springlock closures, which were mostly used between 1990 and 1992 except for 3 or 4 styles that were carried thru the mid and later 1990s.

 

[whateve]

I have the Avenue bag and while 12 X 8 X 2 is a good size I am worried about 2" depth and worried that you might want more depth than that.

What do you think of the 9905 Crosby bag? I love how spacious it is and I think it will meet all your needs with room to spare. View attachment 4380016

I agree. I found the Avenue bag to be too narrow. It won't stand up by itself. I'd love to find a Crosby.